Britain Is Done For

[ken_ichikawa]

Also its cheaper to pay to get them done rather then do it yourself.

Most people do simple call centre or warehouse jobs. Hardly something you can learn something of value from?

You are wrong, on a short term basis it is cheaper,

to overhaul my brakes at the mechanics the cheap one used to cost £40 , he is now gone and the next mechanic costs £60.

I bought some tools for £30 , and have overhauled my brakes about 12 times , based on that single investment in those tools, I have loads of tools me I have saved ££££ on 11 of those jobs and time difference isn't so massive either in that I used to have to sit and wait for them to be done.

[Ipodjunky]

You are wrong, on a short term basis it is cheaper,

to overhaul my brakes at the mechanics the cheap one used to cost £40 , he is now gone and the next mechanic costs £60.

I bought some tools for £30 , and have overhauled my brakes about 12 times , based on that single investment in those tools, I have loads of tools me I have saved ££££ on 11 of those jobs and time difference isn't so massive either in that I used to have to sit and wait for them to be done.

People in the office look at me like I'm nuts when I say I do my own mechanics. It's saved me thousands over the years. We grew up messing around with cars and motorbikes, most of the stuff we did when we were kids would probably get you on police camera action now. People didn't bat an eyelid back then it was normal for kids rant old bikes around fields and dirt tracks...happy days. Now I can't breath without doing a risk assessment form at work.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Ipodjunky

[JBFTB]

I know what you are saying Injin, but it is more than that. I look around me and the adults I know can't cope with adult things; they are like big kids. They can't cope without TV, they don't know what to do with themselves. They have somehow never grown up to become fully functioning adults; they have no 'experience' somehow.

I think this is the most spot-on post in this entire thread. I'm glad it's not just me who's been noticing this.

What seems to be happening is that kids are over-sexualised, pushed to grow up faster, and are sometimes (through lack of proper parenting) ending up having to make adult decisions before their time.

On the flip side, the adults are having decisions taken off them by nannying government interference, or refuse to take responsibility through selfishness and laziness.

The end result is this sort of settling into the lowest common denominator - it seems to me we're becoming a nation of teenagers. I think the most recent term is "kidults" and that's about the size of it. Kids trying to become adults but not being equipped to be responsible enough by virtue of being too young, and adults becoming kids through not being responsible by choice. So the two meet in the middle and we have a nation of people who will sue anything or anybody the instant their own irresponsible actions land them in the shit. They can't do anything themselves because they don't know how to and they can't be arsed. It's pathetic.

[co2_is-not_man_made]

Oh dear what an angry little man you are.

If not stealing from others , sleeping with others behind your wifes back, not being greedy etc makes pious then so be it, values are values show me time when living outside them ever helps anyone.

Even atheist's should have standards!

================================================================================

Since when did being an atheist mean you can't be a decent, honest person. Some of the most evil, corrupt people on earth feign deep religious conviction and have done throughout history. It has always been a means of controlling the masses and is a source of huge misery in the world. A return to decent values, yes. But why do they have to be "religious?" Some of the most intelligent and decent people I know are atheists. The grinning imbecile Blair has converted to Catholicism and the psychopath Bush also claims to hear God talking to him. Personally, I am completely open-minded since the universe is stranger than we can ever imagine.....nothing would surprise me. But I have yet ever to hear a profoundly religious person get anywhere near to explaining who or what God actually is and I suspect it's possibly a nonsense and a fairy tale.

I have not advocated religion just the values it installs, indeed religion is blamed for all the problems in the world, it is in fact all the people who twist the meanings or spout it and don’t live by the values that cause all the problems.

We then also have all the different religions who all feel thiers is correct and are happy to go against all their values to prove it.

A terrorist for instance is linked to religion, I have never read any religious book that advocates what they do, they just twist words.

So people brainwashed by books are no use to anyone.

We all know what is right and wrong , our consciousness tells us, that little voice inside if us. Some people are better able to listen to this voice than others. Some are so ego driven they don’t listen to it at all, some peoples upbringing takes them away from it. Religion is supposed to be a map to show us how to better listen to this voice but has become corrupted as with everything else in this world.

All I know is if everyone acted properly in line with what our consciousness wanted the world would be a much better place to live in.

[lulu]

Excellent post.

I think that religion is only one of the 'glues' that used to hold communities and society together. I'm a great fan of the whole Enlightenment/Emancipation thing, but I believe we're now beginning to see that it is not without costs. Mobility disrupts communities and leaves people rootless. Emancipation gives people options to act in their own interests instead of in the interests of wider society (I'm thinking mainly about women/mothers here, but it applies to men/fathers, too). Wealth lets us isolate ourselves in private spaces, substituting gadgets and toys and canned entertainment for human contact.

We don't want to go back to an authoritarian, traditional model but we also don't want the disconnect we have at the moment. I have no idea what the solution to this conundrum might be.

It does annoy me when people think they are so "clever" that they can push religion aside and critisise those that follow it. If you look back on history one of the things that religion did (and still does if applied appropriately) was bring people together in their communities and one could look at it as some form of a basic level of crowd control, whether God, Allah or whoever exist is a side issue.

There is now a definate vacuum left in society when religion is lost. This vacuum is currently being filled by consumer rubbish and some idiotic idea that everyone can be famous despite having as much talent as the pritstick that I am looking at on my desk just now.

Dont miss understand me I am no religious nut (I am the usual, only go to church for weddings and funerals type) but the principles behind all the major religions should be encouraged (the whole love your neighbour type stuff) I think many who critisise religion (certainly amongst the people I know) forget that their parents/grandparents went to chuch and brought up their children (them) with certain values which whilst they may not have directly have gone to church they had a sound grounding. This moral education gets diluted with each generation and as we can see in some sections of society today the morals of many have gone and there is nothing to hold people together as society any more.

[Laura]

I have felt for a long time that as a parent I have been up against a constant tidal wave of things that seemed to work against the values I worked hard to instill in them.

Yes indeed. The way children are programmed is chilling isn't it?

It's the aggression in the UK I find so awful.

I don't see it in rural Portugal; but here the older generations are respected & the older children look after the younger ones & don't get sneared at for doing so.

Do I need to say more about decline? ---- Other than it may be terminal; because I can't see how the hell the UK can be turned around.

I felt that way even before the property 'market' (god how I loathe that term) was wound up yet again.

Some great heartfelt posts on here. What a pity you are not the loud majority. Or am I being too pessimistic as usual?

[sossij]

It does annoy me when people think they are so "clever" that they can push religion aside and critisise those that follow it. If you look back on history one of the things that religion did (and still does if applied appropriately) was bring people together in their communities and one could look at it as some form of a basic level of crowd control, whether God, Allah or whoever exist is a side issue.

There is now a definate vacuum left in society when religion is lost. This vacuum is currently being filled by consumer rubbish and some idiotic idea that everyone can be famous despite having as much talent as the pritstick that I am looking at on my desk just now.

Dont miss understand me I am no religious nut (I am the usual, only go to church for weddings and funerals type) but the principles behind all the major religions should be encouraged (the whole love your neighbour type stuff) I think many who critisise religion (certainly amongst the people I know) forget that their parents/grandparents went to chuch and brought up their children (them) with certain values which whilst they may not have directly have gone to church they had a sound grounding. This moral education gets diluted with each generation and as we can see in some sections of society today the morals of many have gone and there is nothing to hold people together as society any more.

Morality is not the preserve of religion. Yet religion thinks it is the preserve of morality. In the nicest way, please grow up.

[yawnIHateSundays]

I think that what we forget is that quality time used to mean putting a beautiful meal in front of our family, presenting a gift that we had made ourselves, patting ourselves on the back that we had saved some money doing something we were capable of doing ourselves without calling on a " qualified, corgi registered, Health & Safety passed" expert. I am advised that I shouldn't connect a gas cooker to the mains, change a light fitting, change my oil in the car without consulting someone who is qualified in these matters..............

When I was a kid we used to get up at 7:30 and leave the house at 8:30 for school. In the space of that hour we had had a quick wash, laid the table, sat down to a cooked breakfast plus cereal with family, washed up and shined our shoes.

Today my son got up at 6am and it took him the normal 2 hours to get ready, including a rushed bowl of cereal. The rest of the time was spent showering, straightening his hair and other grooming. That's modern priorities for you.

[Bearback Mountain]

Today my son got up at 6am and it took him the normal 2 hours to get ready, including a rushed bowl of cereal. The rest of the time was spent showering, straightening his hair and other grooming. That's modern priorities for you.

You might want to sit him down and have a talk mate.

[yawnIHateSundays]

People in the office look at me like I'm nuts when I say I do my own mechanics. It's saved me thousands over the years. We grew up messing around with cars and motorbikes, most of the stuff we did when we were kids would probably get you on police camera action now. People didn't bat an eyelid back then it was normal for kids rant old bikes around fields and dirt tracks...happy days. Now I can't breath without doing a risk assessment form at work.

Indeed. I do all the electrics in the house (do know a thing or two, have a degree in electrical engineering) but these days I could be prosecuted for putting in a ring main.

[yawnIHateSundays]

You might want to sit him down and have a talk mate.

He only grunts

[lulu]

Morality is not the preserve of religion. Yet religion thinks it is the preserve of morality. In the nicest way, please grow up.

Yes, thankyou for providing evidence of someone who thinks they are "clever" for dismissing something and at the same time not realising it has shaped their lives and that of their society for the better - where else did your "morals" come from?

[Johnny Storm]

What a great post, I tend to agree with everything said on here. So we all agree, Britain is history. Now what is the answer? I dont mean bs like bring back family values or other stuff that will never happen.

What can we do today to protect ourselves? Leave? Start moving savings somewhere? Where?

We all agree there is a problem, what do we do?

[Guest eight]

You make some excellent points here. It really quite worries me how idiotic people are these days.

I wonder at what point the teaching of useful skills stopped, education standards are awful now and are getting worse yet the Government keep telling us how exam grades are getting better. We recently advertised a new post in our office and I was involved with looking at the CV's I could not believe the shoddy standard of English/spelling and grammar of many of them - mostly from those under the age of about 25.

Anecdotal. A girl at work has seventeen GCSE's, all at A* grades.

The other day, she couldn't divide 18 by 6 without the use of a calculator. When challenged, she said that she couldn't do it "under pressure" (ie. in her head, with somebody waiting on the answer.)

Frightening.

eight

[sossij]

Yes, thankyou for providing evidence of someone who thinks they are "clever" for dismissing something and at the same time not realising it has shaped their lives and that of their society for the better - where else did your "morals" come from?

Well since you ask, I was raised as a Catholic, went to church regularly until I was 16, went to a Catholic school. One day my dad sat me down and asked me what I thought about the church, its role in society, how it affects peoples' lives and whether I feel comfortable remaining a member of the church. I told him (nicely) I thought that its stance on morality is no more valid than any that of any other religion, or indeed morality stories to be found elsewhere (e.g. Aesopp's fables) and as an explanation of how the world is, where it came from it is next to useless compared to the acheivements of science. He agreed. We both haven't been back since.

I don't understand your (implied) contention that to be religious is to be moral. You may as well say to be religious is to be good at singing. I don't doubt that there are moral people who are religious, there are also evil people who are religious. Just to be clear: there are also moral people who are atheists as well as evil people who are atheists. Basing morality on a set of rules handed down by your parents just for the sake of it is certainly not being "clever" - it is infantile. Do you still believe in Father Christmas?

[blankster]

If Britain is done for, at least we won't be going down alone! Ireland, USA, Spain, France......even China is hitting choppy waters.

[Penny Drop]

I left England 3.5 years ago and now live in France and work in Switzerland.

The thing I miss most is English humour, the self-deprecating black humour that makes life funny. Plenty of it on this site, so good job. British TV and news programmes are also excellent, well-balanced and outward looking and the free speech and debate allowed are admirable - thanks to satellite for allowing Brits everywhere to watch BBC.

However, there are so many things I dont miss: the traffic and parking regulations, the speed cameras everywhere. You have to really want or need to drive to bother having a car these days - the pleasure of driving is just not there anymore. Last time I drove to london, I had to faff about paying the congestion charge, pay about six pounds into a meter to park for half an hour and then when I came back I had a parking ticket anyway as my side of the road was Text Parking only - buggered if I had my mobile phone on me to have been able to text anyway. So, 80 pound fine, nice one.

In France, parking at my nearest train station is both abundant and free. On the rare occasions there isnt a space, I can squeeze into the taxi spaces or elsewhere and never get a parking ticket. Even if I did get a parking ticket it would be 12 Euros. My monthly train pass to Geneva - a 50 minute commute -costs 80 Euros. I always get a seat on the train and so does everyone else.

Then there is the health care. Not even going to begin describing the differences. But knowing that people from the UK travel to New Delhi for eye operations just about says it all.

Watching England go to the dogs is a sad and terrifying thing. Gordon Brown is a complete idiot: arrogant, out of touch and totally incompetent. New Labour has managed to wreck modern British society with its over-complicated rules and regulations (for parking, housing and so many other areas of life), with its stealth taxes and failure to truly improve society for the majority with the redistribution of wealth appropriately. Certain things just should not be privatised and run at a profit: tranpsort, healthcare (cleaning of hospitals is a prime example of how disastrous outsourcing is).

A revolution is almost what is called for to make England liveable again.

[andrewwk]

...but instead of whinging on an internet forum some people try to change things:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...9/ccview119.xml

[andrewwk]

Yes, thankyou for providing evidence of someone who thinks they are "clever" for dismissing something and at the same time not realising it has shaped their lives and that of their society for the better - where else did your "morals" come from?

Religion often does not shape society for the better. For example, the Catholic church forbids the wearing of condoms and promotes abstinence-only policies in Africa, despite evidence that this is slowing the fight against HIV.

[The Spaniard]

Certain things just should not be privatised and run at a profit: tranpsort, healthcare (cleaning of hospitals is a prime example of how disastrous outsourcing is).

A revolution is almost what is called for to make England liveable again.

Our privatised money supply is the prime example.

[lulu]

Religion often does not shape society for the better. For example, the Catholic church forbids the wearing of condoms and promotes abstinence-only policies in Africa, despite evidence that this is slowing the fight against HIV.

But the arguement here surely is more to do with if these people are "proper" Catholics then why are they sleeping with so many partners? Surely if they are Catholic enough to not use condoms then they should be Catholic enough.

The problem as I can see it in this case is the double standards. Why are the people following the "condoms are bad" message but not the "sleeping with lots of people is bad one"

[Guest eight]

We all know what is right and wrong , our consciousness tells us, that little voice inside if us.

The still, small voice of God? I'm not religious, but that's what prayer is; forced contemplation. Who takes the time to contemplate anymore? Is it even possible in today's busy world of mass communication and endless diversion - outside of a religious setting?

eight

Edited June 19, 2008 by eight

[Whoslaughing?]

To be honest, I think it is pretty done for as well. The last ten years of Labour, and to some extent some of the 60s generation who ended up in positions of cultural power, has broken the backbone of the country so that there's no longer a core to fall back on.

Britain is embarassing. It is dirty, expensive, has a low quality of life, and has managed to create an entire swathe of an underclass who can hardly speak, let alone read or write. We have execution-style murders on the streets adn next to no civic life left.

I drive through my area and see boarded up civic halls, cinemas, drill halls, central halls. Our pubs are closing down. I look at old photos, we used to have galas, parades, a recreation parks with boating and rides back at the turn of the century. We used to have branch lines, even the poorest lived in 2-up 2-downs, and local bands and dances and libraries.

What has happened to us?

Nail on the head. Can I also add to that it is going to get a great deal worse. We are lost in a myre of political correctness, politicians who sosay lead this country have had their noses in the trough for so long they cannot be bothered to look up and see what is really happening. The basic standards of a civilised society have gone and I don't see how we can get it back.

The people I feel really sorry for now are the old and vulnerable. What must they think of our once beautiful country?

[Johnny Storm]

The people I feel really sorry for now are the old and vulnerable. What must they think of our once beautiful country?

We will all become those people in the end. What will we think then, im pretty sure its only going to get worse and worse.

[lulu]

Well since you ask, I was raised as a Catholic, went to church regularly until I was 16, went to a Catholic school. One day my dad sat me down and asked me what I thought about the church, its role in society, how it affects peoples' lives and whether I feel comfortable remaining a member of the church. I told him (nicely) I thought that its stance on morality is no more valid than any that of any other religion, or indeed morality stories to be found elsewhere (e.g. Aesopp's fables) and as an explanation of how the world is, where it came from it is next to useless compared to the acheivements of science. He agreed. We both haven't been back since.

I don't understand your (implied) contention that to be religious is to be moral. You may as well say to be religious is to be good at singing. I don't doubt that there are moral people who are religious, there are also evil people who are religious. Just to be clear: there are also moral people who are atheists as well as evil people who are atheists. Basing morality on a set of rules handed down by your parents just for the sake of it is certainly not being "clever" - it is infantile. Do you still believe in Father Christmas?

But that is my point - you were raised in a Catholic school and as a result you had a certain upbringing and a certain set of values instilled in you. I have a similar background, I went to a Church of England school and once I left decided that religion was maybe not for me, I could see the flaws in it. But we are both educated enough to come to that decision.

I am not saying though that one must have gone to a church school either in order to provide morals but there are many people in our society who have no serious background in anything other than themselves and that is one of the reasons why we have so many problems in society now, people no longer even respect their own familes. At least religion (of any type applied properly) provides people a certain set of beliefs and understanding about things.

My problem is, is with people who just simply dismiss religion and somehow think they have a moral superiority and are more "clever" than those who still follow it. In reality religion has provided the foundation of our and other societies, this foundataion is now being rapidly eroded.