Btl

[HOUSEHUNTER]

excuse the single 't' in attend, simple typo, don't want you to think I'm a poor speller or anything........

Edited January 10, 2007 by HOUSEHUNTER

[GCS15]

i believe the true problem is the removal of the first rung and council housing.

and this is the exact area been targeted by BTL.

this is what is most annoying, its the very bottom that has been removed from the market, btl dont buy fancy houses to rent out they buy terraced starter homes.

even in the 80s boom it was still possible to get one of these starter homes, the dilapidated terrace house, and was also possible to get a council house.

However this time around in this boom, these have been removed and there is now no choice but to let a home off a speculative richer, often older person, that lives in a house in a nice part of town, feeding off the people with no money or little money is the name of the game.

This is what really makes me furious. Here in Oz they bought all the entry level homes, splashed on some paint and increased the price about the same as two / three years wages. :angry:

FFS if they were buying up the mid to upper level homes it'd been ok. Then it wouldn't have hurt the FTB and poor as hard. I mean i'd rather be irritated at not being able to move up the ladder than fluctuate between depressed to angry at not being able to get onto the ladder.

Honestly the poor and the FTB are the ones paying the price. My rent's gone up again. The reason? Rates (council tax) has increased. Why have rates increased? Because the value of housing has gone up :angry: I can't F$#king win.

..........

Quick edit to add

Eric Pebble is damn right when he goes on about how the law enforcers and law makers are profiting which is the reason nothing is being done about it. I for one will not feel an ounce of pity when the sob stories about repossessions start. Hell I might even break out a bottle of bubbly

Edited January 10, 2007 by GCS15

[HOUSEHUNTER]

Your first duty as a citizen is to offer up your children to the almighty MEW machine. You failed to do this, opting out of the debt based system to spend time with your children.

Now you are being punished for your sins.

excellent

[HOUSEHUNTER]

Completely understand your frustration GCS15

Goodnight all, I hope the BTL's sleep soundly........

Edited January 10, 2007 by HOUSEHUNTER

[ChinaReader]

BTL's are directly responsible for hopelessness, crime and exclusion. I don't know how you can try to justify it by saying it mixes social classes. It actually divides creating a huge gap between rich and poor. I am a professional and I feel very poor, even though I earn over the national average.

But it's a different gap - before it was that the professionals felt rich and the lower earners felt poor. Now it's that the BTLers and the BabyBoomers sitting on large houses feel rich, while the professionals and the lower earners feel poor.

It's not a better system, but at least it's a bit of a change!

[lulu]

Homeless - I totally agree, it's a sick society we live in, children are being brought up in rented hovels but the BTL's don't think about that.

But why should they?

It is the Government who is the biggest culprit here for their inaction on many issues, from not regulating lending strongly enough, allowing many immigrants in who are fueling demand. The government could very easily tax the sh*t out of BTL - I am sure Gordon has it in his plans now, but he could have done it years ago and it would have helped.

[enworb]

ex mewer, there has always been the odd LL, not this BTL craze we are experiencing.

So in your ideal world, there will be only one LL in the whole of the UK that rents to you.

Who decides who should be in the "odd LL" catagory?

As i've said in the past, there should be a policy in place that only allows each adult to buy a maximum number of properties. But until there is such a policy don't be surprised that people have been buying more. As a LL myself, my tenant has a much larger flat than my split level maisonette. Fully furnished with 3 piece suite, dining table + chairs, new flat screen tv, double bed (she alreday had a single bed for her daughter), 4 metres of wardrobes, fridge freezer, washer dryer, dish washer, cooker and probably a few other things i've forgotten about. So please don't confuse me with one those knuckle dragging LL's from the 80's.

There is a need for LL's as you've selfishly pointed out. You have well and truly contradicted yourself.

[Orbital]

BUT NEVER FOR ONE MINUTE LET THEM FEEL LIKE GOOD HUMAN MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY

you lunatic! tbh you come across as a most spiteful person in your own right, so full of hatred. Kinda scary - have you considered counciling - you dont have to live your life like this. Lots of people live in far worse conditions that those 'putting up with rental accommodation' and still manage to lead very fulfilling lives!

First of all, BTLs arent actually the only cause of HPI, trends for single occupancy and increased population in key areas are generally accepted by the more reasoned commentators as being the key contributors. But also, these people are just trying to make a living in a difficult world, I bet there are few people here who would turn down such an opportunity if they had it.

Next, I bet you are happy to benefit from exploitation when it suits you, own any clothes manufactured in China? Buy cheap intensively farmed food at a supermarket? Drink coffee from Africa? The list is endless. Why not admit that this rant arises purely because they have something you want and its just not fair boohoo im 3 years old again, it has nothing to do with morality because we all know we all pick and chose when to get on and off the high ground. Unless you are a vegan living off the land, in which case I apologise .

Finally, there is actually a genuine and real need for rental accommodation - how do you distinguish between the landlords providing a necessary service and the 'evil' ones? I lived in 5 rented places in 5 years and had the time of my life moving around and living with new people, im too old for that now, but without landlords Id never have had the chance. You bitter loon!

[misfit]

So in your ideal world, there will be only one LL in the whole of the UK that rents to you.

Who decides who should be in the "odd LL" catagory?

As i've said in the past, there should be a policy in place that only allows each adult to buy a maximum number of properties. But until there is such a policy don't be surprised that people have been buying more. As a LL myself, my tenant has a much larger flat than my split level maisonette. Fully furnished with 3 piece suite, dining table + chairs, new flat screen tv, double bed (she alreday had a single bed for her daughter), 4 metres of wardrobes, fridge freezer, washer dryer, dish washer, cooker and probably a few other things i've forgotten about. So please don't confuse me with one those knuckle dragging LL's from the 80's.

There is a need for LL's as you've selfishly pointed out. You have well and truly contradicted yourself.

Dear Enworb

Why do you improve your tenants standard of living at the expense of your own. Life is too short. Enjoy yourself.

This is something I do not understand so I would be grateful if you could please explain.

I spoke to a friend of mine who is currently buying in Derbyshire and we discussed the fact that he could keep his house now and rent it out and buy a smaller 3 bed semi in Derbyshire for the same cash. He said why should I limit my standard of living when I could sell up and buy a 4 bed detached and live in a little more luxury. I think this is a fair comment.

I do have some friends who have rental properties but this is because they bought when they left Uni when houses were 35K so they paid them off quickly and then just kept them to rent out but also to use as a bolthole for when they either got married or moved in with their partners. Some who have split up with their partners then have a house to move back into as soon as their tenants 6 month contract ends.

[HOUSEHUNTER]

So in your ideal world, there will be only one LL in the whole of the UK that rents to you.

Who decides who should be in the "odd LL" catagory?

As i've said in the past, there should be a policy in place that only allows each adult to buy a maximum number of properties. But until there is such a policy don't be surprised that people have been buying more. As a LL myself, my tenant has a much larger flat than my split level maisonette. Fully furnished with 3 piece suite, dining table + chairs, new flat screen tv, double bed (she alreday had a single bed for her daughter), 4 metres of wardrobes, fridge freezer, washer dryer, dish washer, cooker and probably a few other things i've forgotten about. So please don't confuse me with one those knuckle dragging LL's from the 80's.

There is a need for LL's as you've selfishly pointed out. You have well and truly contradicted yourself.

How dare you call me selfish, take a long look at yourself in the mirror and then decide who is selfish. :angry:

[BrickingIt]

Fully furnished with 3 piece suite, dining table + chairs, new flat screen tv, double bed (she alreday had a single bed for her daughter), 4 metres of wardrobes, fridge freezer, washer dryer, dish washer, cooker and probably a few other things i've forgotten about.

Wheres the 50" plasma ????????????????. The squaller people will live in nowdays. I find it difficult stomach.

[time_and_tide]

How dare you call me selfish, take a long look at yourself in the mirror and then decide who is selfish. :angry:

Mirrors all round, then. We nearly all act selfishly, at least in the decisions that really matter.

Or are you the reincarnation of Mother Teresa, househunter?

[enworb]

Dear Enworb

Why do you improve your tenants standard of living at the expense of your own. Life is too short. Enjoy yourself.

This is something I do not understand so I would be grateful if you could please explain.

I spoke to a friend of mine who is currently buying in Derbyshire and we discussed the fact that he could keep his house now and rent it out and buy a smaller 3 bed semi in Derbyshire for the same cash. He said why should I limit my standard of living when I could sell up and buy a 4 bed detached and live in a little more luxury. I think this is a fair comment.

I do have some friends who have rental properties but this is because they bought when they left Uni when houses were 35K so they paid them off quickly and then just kept them to rent out but also to use as a bolthole for when they either got married or moved in with their partners. Some who have split up with their partners then have a house to move back into as soon as their tenants 6 month contract ends.

I intented to sell my place and move into the flat but it was being sold with tenants. I won't lie and pretend that I didn't want to make gains from buying it. It needed an awful lot of work.Fitted kitchen and bathroom (and a stud wll removing) and the usual decorating. Even still, being on my own Street I knew I would one day live there and it was relatively cheap so bought. As luck would have it (not) the tenants moved out prior to me exchanging. I dare say that they din't trust their new LL.

A friend heard that I was buying and asked if she could rent it which meant I didn't have a single days void. The vendor even let me have the keys well in advance to do the work before completing. It was a risk but I trusted the vendor (yes some LL's are decent people) and he was treu to his word and he didn't pull out afer I had done so much work to it.

The reason that I fully furnished it is because it is my duty to do so, and by that I mean supply everything my tenant and her young daughter needed. It's the way I was brought up contrary to peoples opinion of LL's . I will be moving into my btl flat this year which will be 2+ years of letting it. It will be a pain having 2 lots of everything when I will only have 1 property as I will be selling my current residential property. Thanks goodness for ebay!

I guess you are wondering why LL's have so many properties yet live in modest houses and I think along the same lines. Ok it will be nice to have a good nest egg when they retire but they need to live for today too.

I will no doubt sell my btl, having lived there for a year or two, and will see how the market is then to decide whether to fork out a fortune on a bigger house.

[shouter]

This may have been covered before, but has anyone thought that the BTL's have been taken advantage of as well? Icould be wrong, but how is this for a theory.

Over the last 10 years we've been given the spin that our pensions are not going to be enough. Once you're in your thirties it stops being worth while to start a pension, so what do you do instead? When the economy is healthy and interest rates are low you aren't going to get much return by putting your cash in a bank. So along come the property developers/estate agents; 'buy a property, rent it out. By the time you are ready to retire it will have paid it's own mortgage and you will either have a lump sum from it's sale (which of course will be more than you have paid for it, HP's always go up in the long run......) or an ongoing income from the rent - you won't be paying a mortgage on it anymore. Why buy one - buy 10!'

So along comes MR/MRS/Miss scared of the future, retired on a miiniscule pension, authority residential and nursing homes beckoning, and an underfunded NHS when you need your replacement joints. Versus a nice income from property rental or sales (after all your tenants will be paying the mortgage for you!). And the developer sells the properties that are not worth their price - having visited some of them I prefer my HA flat (much bigger with a nominal rent and to be honest the neighbours aren't much different - after all many going for private landlord rentals are former social housing tenants that have been banned due to anti-social behaviour).

Some BTL's are victims as well. Not that I feel that sorry for them. They should have just saved instead.

Edited January 10, 2007 by shouter

[enworb]

Wheres the 50" plasma ????????????????. The squaller people will live in nowdays. I find it difficult stomach.

They were too expensive 18 months ago. I will certainly be buying an LCD or plasma when I move in. They're so cheap these days.

[HOUSEHUNTER]

What are all these BTL people doing on here? When I joined this site it seemed supportive of those who cannot afford to buy a decent home, things have certainly changed and recently this place has been taken over by people who couldn't care less about affordable homes.

[dogbox]

I am pretty certain i am right in my predictions, but for every year that passes where it still has not happened it gets harder. i might have the winning hand, It's just a bad, it will pass

Sam cant you see the irony here?

You rant at LLs for thier money making motivation but you yourself intend to make money by saving money as the result of a crash so you too are motivated by self improvement.

As Ive always said forget prices when it comes to buying a home, just buy and be happy. Then once youve done that expend some energy on investing even if it means using 0% c cards to get started. Im probably going to use several 0% c cards shortly to fund buying property BMV with a freind in order to immediatley re - sell.

Why do I do such things? Because I want a better quality of life in terms of time to do what I want rather than work.

At least I dont pollute the world like Bill Gates who tells us we must must have the latest gizmos all of which end up dumped and cost a lot of prescious finite resources to build and that are purchased with stretched credit by people straining to keep up with the Jones's.

[ChinaReader]

The reason that I fully furnished it is because it is my duty to do so, and by that I mean supply everything my tenant and her young daughter needed. It's the way I was brought up contrary to peoples opinion of LL's .

Apparently in Germany there's a saying along the lines of "With property comes duty". It's kind of an established element of the culture I'm told. Owning your own property is much less common, and landlords seem to take an attitude not dissimilar to your enworb.

[lulu]

As Ive always said forget prices when it comes to buying a home, just buy and be happy.

Yes certainly a good sentiment - only for those of us with no equity or rich parents to MEW for our deposits - it becomes hard to simply "forget the price"!

If I had been born just 3/4 years earlier, given my current salary and deposit I would have been able to do just that, the one bedroom flat in a reasonable part of town I aspire to would have been well within my grasp. I have committed the crime of being just a few years too young and not having rich parents - so obviosuly I deserve everything I get (or don't get) I must be a fool for not buying when prices were at a trough! (oh sorry I was still at school)

:angry:

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Well said Sam, though include the moneylenders too, and the governments who are in the pockets of the moneylenders.

[dogbox]

If I had been born just 3/4 years earlier, given my current salary and deposit I would have been able to do just that, the one bedroom flat in a reasonable part of town I aspire to would have been well within my grasp. I have committed the crime of being just a few years too young and not having rich parents - so obviosuly I deserve everything I get (or don't get) I must be a fool for not buying when prices were at a trough! (oh sorry I was still at school)

:angry:

Sigh, same old same old

My youngest brother has just bought his first home for £185000 yet he's not a Lawyer, just a gardener.

When I bought I had to move quite a long way out in order to be able to afford the prices in 1991.

Is it really impossible for you?

[gfromls]

Sigh, same old same old

My youngest brother has just bought his first home for £185000 yet he's not a Lawyer, just a gardener.

When I bought I had to move quite a long way out in order to be able to afford the prices in 1991.

Is it really impossible for you?

what's he going to do... cut the grass, plant some flowers and then sell it for £250,000

[steve99]

Has it ever occurred to you that you no longer earn a decent wage? I'm not winding you up, the thought has crossed my mind as well. It seems that you are nobody unless you are pulling down at least £150k these days (make that £250k if you are in London).

Perhaps what we are really suffering from is the growing gap between a wealthy elite and the 99% of the population destined to be their financial slaves?

Speaking of which: http://www.dailyreckoning.com/Issues/2007/DR010907.html

read Mark Fabers article towards the bottom of this edition.

[christhpc]

What are all these BTL people doing on here? When I joined this site it seemed supportive of those who cannot afford to buy a decent home, things have certainly changed and recently this place has been taken over by people who couldn't care less about affordable homes.

Well HH you have to admit if any thread is going to get them swarming in, I don't think you'll find better than a thread titled: "BTL: Never let these scum forget what they really are" + mega rant

Quite literally like a red rag to a bull.

[sam]

you lunatic! tbh you come across as a most spiteful person in your own right, so full of hatred. Kinda scary - have you considered counciling - you dont have to live your life like this. Lots of people live in far worse conditions that those 'putting up with rental accommodation' and still manage to lead very fulfilling lives!

First of all, BTLs arent actually the only cause of HPI, trends for single occupancy and increased population in key areas are generally accepted by the more reasoned commentators as being the key contributors. But also, these people are just trying to make a living in a difficult world, I bet there are few people here who would turn down such an opportunity if they had it.

Next, I bet you are happy to benefit from exploitation when it suits you, own any clothes manufactured in China? Buy cheap intensively farmed food at a supermarket? Drink coffee from Africa? The list is endless. Why not admit that this rant arises purely because they have something you want and its just not fair boohoo im 3 years old again, it has nothing to do with morality because we all know we all pick and chose when to get on and off the high ground. Unless you are a vegan living off the land, in which case I apologise .

Finally, there is actually a genuine and real need for rental accommodation - how do you distinguish between the landlords providing a necessary service and the 'evil' ones? I lived in 5 rented places in 5 years and had the time of my life moving around and living with new people, im too old for that now, but without landlords Id never have had the chance. You bitter loon!

You get my vote for the sillest little ***** on here to date , what the hell are you wafffling about