Btl

[sam]

There are some low life activitys in the world these days, drug dealers/pimps/those that exploit children through slavery or violence, and those that treat the elderly as a burden on society,

and up there with all the low life scum i place BTL

There are people who will do ANYTHING to make a buck, there are those who have no dignity at all(and i suspect no soul at times), just look at Big Brother, it makes me want to weep.

Think of all the immoral and low life ways there are to make money, and on top of that list in my eyes is Buy To Let, a group of people who are using peoples need for housing to create a speculative market in order to make a fast Buck.

I have read an article this morning where again you hear the gloating greed of a scum landlord who is getting his dopey tenants to pay for his mortgage.

Every week i work with these BTL new breed, and in general they are not a bunch of very nice people. There are ex bouncer steroid taking low life, many estate agents(and ex), salesman, and the shallow bunch of Essex type chavs who think they have class because they drive a 4x4 and read the Daily mail(instead of the Star). Familys have to live under the rules of these money grabbing low life, knowing they can be thrown out with only 2 months notice.

There is a few comedy sketches in the stereotypical BTL Landlord, even a sitcom, David Brent has nothing compared to some of the characters i have bumped into.

It is all very well making a few bob as you go through life, but excel in your choosen proffession, or do something that is productive, to me BTL is just injecting someone with poison then selling them the antidote.

I want these people to go under, not for revenge or to get my own back, i want to see a 100,000's of propertys floooding the market which then starts a chain reaction in bring prices down do REAL familys can afford them.

BTL is a affront to decency, how under any Labour Government this could thrive like it has done is beyond belief, it has made decent law abiding people turn to the likes of the BMP(disagee but fully understand), it is making the younger generation angry and left out, it has made them feel like slaves to the Baby Boomers.

Where has all this come from , this morning i was driving in the Country and could see for miles, and i think i had what could only be called a caveman flashback that i think we all have in us.

I looked for miles ahead of me and could see vast amounts of land and space, and i thought to myself i only want a tiny spec of it, i then want to then under my own steam build myself a shelter using my own blood sweat and hard work.

I suppose like many Blokes(and some woman), i am the hunter gather type, i want to get up in the morning and feed, water and shelter myself, USING MY OWN BRAIN AND MUSCLE.

But i cannot do any of this, i am not the spiv type low life that wakes up every morning and thinks lifes all about making money anyway possible, i am not a 17 year old chav slapper that has been put up the duff by a low life junkie.

So when you see the Gell haired BTL spiv Landlord in his 4x4, sneer at him, spit at him, humiliate him, take the p**s out of him, but never for one minute make these people think that they are putting anything into our society, these filth will do anything that increases their "property wealth", they will over populate the Country with cheap Labour and potential tenants, they will have the Goverment subsidise them, they will have good familys thrown onto the Bed & Breakfast circuit.

They can have their BTL empires

BUT NEVER FOR ONE MINUTE LET THEM FEEL LIKE GOOD HUMAN MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY

Sam

Edited January 9, 2007 by sam

[RichB]

Aye, we should all get bmps and go after this scum.

[Pluto]

It is not the BTL that are the scum, it is the low life rats, which are the moneylenders.

Without their cheap money BTL'ers would not exist.

My advice withdraw all your money from BANKS and BUILDING SOCIETIES and set up accounts with savings banks that do not lend irresponsibly. Don't let them use your money!

For example the National Savings Bank (post office). I'm sure there are others out there that don't money lend for BTLs.

If you have accounts with these rats - you are promoting their activities.

STOP COMPLAINING AND DO SOMETHING.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Pluto

[Smell the Fear]

What is it you do again Sam?

That's one hell of a rant btw, hope you feel better now...

Pest control officer?

[Smell the Fear]

If Sam was a pest control officer, I don't think there'd be any BTLers left in the country...

It really is testament to the docile nature of UK citizens that landlords have not been beaten up, had properties torched etc. given the circumstances. Let's hope Sam's not a fighter after a few drinks.

[enworb]

Sam

There are an awful lot of people on this forum, that in hindsight, would have gotten into btl. Some say thay they will if there is a crash.

The problem is Sam, nobody gives two hoots about you and will continue to put themselves and their families first. Btl'ing isn't a crime if it is done by the letter of the law...so don't compare it to drug taking. That's a stupid thing to say.

[sam]

What is it you do again Sam?

That's one hell of a rant btw, hope you feel better now...

To be honest it was a hell of a rant, and i knew so at the time, it is just one of those days

I had a combination of many much of the crap we often talk about on here.

I had my Dad giving me the rent is dead money speech(and it is getting harder to defend myself as time goes on), i had the banks treat me like 2nd class citizen because i no longer own property, you have a great business that has a great turnover, but banks still treat you with caution if you do not have equity.

I have had it from friends who really rubbed it in my face the other day, and please none of they really are not friends stuff, they are only human.

Some on here on a scale of 1 to 10 (where 1 is chilled to the core about waiting) might be all around the 1, but i really get pissed off and i can go from a 1 to 7ish.

Some days i am just sick of all houseprice ******, but still even if i was to reach the 10 i still would not buy because i know whats coming, my main worry though is that it will take several years STILL.

I am pretty certain i am right in my predictions, but for every year that passes where it still has not happened it gets harder. i might have the winning hand, but it is not untill all the cards have been turned can you be certain.

Nobody can ever say they are completly scewed when things do not turn out like they want them to, but i will say this will have effected my life in a major way for the worse if i am wrong.

It's just a bad, it will pass

[Nonnamouse]

To be honest it was a hell of a rant, and i knew so at the time, it is just one of those days

I had a combination of many much of the crap we often talk about on here.

I had my Dad giving me the rent is dead money speech(and it is getting harder to defend myself as time goes on), i had the banks treat me like 2nd class citizen because i no longer own property, you have a great business that has a great turnover, but banks still treat you with caution if you do not have equity.

I have had it from friends who really rubbed it in my face the other day, and please none of they really are not friends stuff, they are only human.

Some on here on a scale of 1 to 10 (where 1 is chilled to the core about waiting) might be all around the 1, but i really get pissed off and i can go from a 1 to 7ish.

Some days i am just sick of all houseprice ******, but still even if i was to reach the 10 i still would not buy because i know whats coming, my main worry though is that it will take several years STILL.

I am pretty certain i am right in my predictions, but for every year that passes where it still has not happened it gets harder. i might have the winning hand, but it is not untill all the cards have been turned can you be certain.

Nobody can ever say they are completly scewed when things do not turn out like they want them to, but i will say this will have effected my life in a major way for the worse if i am wrong.

It's just a bad, it will pass

Sounded fine to me. At least I now know what one looks like.

[worried one]

So someone decides they want to invest an amount of money and has a look around. They see an asset that they can get into with little to no cash input, obtain yields that are in line with a lot of gilts and bonds (admittedly with considerably higher risk) and have the chance to see a healthy capital gain.

Thats what happens in a capitalist society. Is it any worse than buying shares in an arms company whos products are designed specifically to kill people. If there is a demand for something then there is an opportunity to supply it.

If you don't like it then Virgin do daily flights to Cuba. You might find that economic and social environment more to your liking.

[enworb]

To be honest it was a hell of a rant, and i knew so at the time, it is just one of those days

I had a combination of many much of the crap we often talk about on here.

I had my Dad giving me the rent is dead money speech(and it is getting harder to defend myself as time goes on), i had the banks treat me like 2nd class citizen because i no longer own property, you have a great business that has a great turnover, but banks still treat you with caution if you do not have equity.

I have had it from friends who really rubbed it in my face the other day, and please none of they really are not friends stuff, they are only human.

Some on here on a scale of 1 to 10 (where 1 is chilled to the core about waiting) might be all around the 1, but i really get pissed off and i can go from a 1 to 7ish.

Some days i am just sick of all houseprice ******, but still even if i was to reach the 10 i still would not buy because i know whats coming, my main worry though is that it will take several years STILL.

I am pretty certain i am right in my predictions, but for every year that passes where it still has not happened it gets harder. i might have the winning hand, but it is not untill all the cards have been turned can you be certain.

Nobody can ever say they are completly scewed when things do not turn out like they want them to, but i will say this will have effected my life in a major way for the worse if i am wrong.

It's just a bad, it will pass

You do worry me sometimes Sam. I don't know how best to reply to your posts. Will it be Dr Jekyll or Mr Hyde that reads it

I lose it myself somwtimes - probably a lot worse than you do. I doubt i'd even have a laptop to post on if I did. It's all part and parcel of being a Gemini.

[sam]

If it's any consolation, I don't reckon you've got much longer to wait for confirmation that all is not well with the British property market and UK PLC for that matter. Having said that, you're still gonna have to wait a while before it's safe to buy a house, however you'll be happy to do so when the time comes, believe me.

It really is not the wait for the bottom of the property that bothers me, it's the wait for the start of the slide, there is a big difference.

It is like winning the Lottery and knowing that you cannot spend the money for a year, i would be fine with that personally, just knowing that your life will be better and things will be ok.

It is called HOPE, if you have that life is allways worth waking up to., the expection of KNOWING that i will be able to get my own home would fill me with so much joy.

[PogoLocky]

If it's any consolation, I don't reckon you've got much longer to wait for confirmation that all is not well with the British property market and UK PLC for that matter. Having said that, you're still gonna have to wait a while before it's safe to buy a house, however you'll be happy to do so when the time comes, believe me.

It really is not the wait for the bottom of the property that bothers me, it's the wait for the start of the slide, there is a big difference.

It is like winning the Lottery and knowing that you cannot spend the money for a year, i would be fine with that personally, just knowing that your life will be better and things will be ok.

It is called HOPE, if you have that life is allways worth waking up to., the expection of KNOWING that i will be able to get my own home would fill me with so much joy.

The crash was last year you can see it on the homepage we have now recovered that ground. We now have all the immigrants from Bulgaria and Hungary who will need housing and they have first priority. All us taxpayers will help support and house them and let them take jobs for £10 a day. Everybody who was stupid enough to vote Labour are to blame i for one am not one of them. I do however benefit slightly by having one BTL which i purchased for the benefit of my sister and have benefited in the rise of house prices and long will it continue thanks for all the blind Labour voters.

[red]

While I appreciate that BTLers are not held in the highest regard by most of us on this site, let's not forget that bears will one day turn bulls and can anyone on this site hand-on-heart say that if they had the chance they wouldn't consider buying an investment property when the market hits bottom? Well..? I'd be interested to know as if the answer is no, it's surely for purely moral reasons which I would applaud but be equally staggered by.

[steve99]

Landlords have allways been scum, some worse than others, a lot of the current amatuer landlords are much better than the filth that we had in the old days, they actualy have to compete somewhat these days to get customers, 20 years ago they used to pick and chose punters at will, perhaps 20 couples would look at a flat to rent and of course only one of them get it, so they actualy do provide a service and much cheaper than it used to be (proportianly to todays wages,etc).

And if you saw the standard decor that was around in 1990 and before,. you would probably puke, brown (caused by aging the paint carpet and curtains for 30 years) was the general theme, proper hot showers and central heating were only to be dreamed of, and another thing, by law propertys were usualy furnished, which meant that your bed had had 3 generations pis*ing and dying in it with bed springs almost touching the floor and a matteress not fit for an outdoor dog.

The real reason it has become an issue is that the government and the BOE in conjuction with the bigger VI's have created a situation where other investments are not trusted and give no return appart from what turns up on the speculative front, of course BTL is now in that catagory but at least it can be seen and touched and not just figures on paper for the city w*nkers to extact bonus's from. But dont panic, this is a passing phase, we will have a crash and property will be cheaper no doubt, interest rates will be higher and unemployment will be over the top, but these things go hand in hand, all part of a ever repeating cycle.

[azogar]

There are some low life activitys in the world these days, drug dealers/pimps/those that exploit children through slavery or violence, and those that treat the elderly as a burden on society,

and up there with all the low life scum i place BTL

There are people who will do ANYTHING to make a buck, there are those who have no dignity at all(and i suspect no soul at times), just look at Big Brother, it makes me want to weep.

Think of all the immoral and low life ways there are to make money, and on top of that list in my eyes is Buy To Let, a group of people who are using peoples need for housing to create a speculative market in order to make a fast Buck.

I have read an article this morning where again you hear the gloating greed of a scum landlord who is getting his dopey tenants to pay for his mortgage.

Every week i work with these BTL new breed, and in general they are not a bunch of very nice people. There are ex bouncer steroid taking low life, many estate agents(and ex), salesman, and the shallow bunch of Essex type chavs who think they have class because they drive a 4x4 and read the Daily mail(instead of the Star). Familys have to live under the rules of these money grabbing low life, knowing they can be thrown out with only 2 months notice.

There is a few comedy sketches in the stereotypical BTL Landlord, even a sitcom, David Brent has nothing compared to some of the characters i have bumped into.

It is all very well making a few bob as you go through life, but excel in your choosen proffession, or do something that is productive, to me BTL is just injecting someone with poison then selling them the antidote.

I want these people to go under, not for revenge or to get my own back, i want to see a 100,000's of propertys floooding the market which then starts a chain reaction in bring prices down do REAL familys can afford them.

BTL is a affront to decency, how under any Labour Government this could thrive like it has done is beyond belief, it has made decent law abiding people turn to the likes of the BMP(disagee but fully understand), it is making the younger generation angry and left out, it has made them feel like slaves to the Baby Boomers.

Where has all this come from , this morning i was driving in the Country and could see for miles, and i think i had what could only be called a caveman flashback that i think we all have in us.

I looked for miles ahead of me and could see vast amounts of land and space, and i thought to myself i only want a tiny spec of it, i then want to then under my own steam build myself a shelter using my own blood sweat and hard work.

I suppose like many Blokes(and some woman), i am the hunter gather type, i want to get up in the morning and feed, water and shelter myself, USING MY OWN BRAIN AND MUSCLE.

But i cannot do any of this, i am not the spiv type low life that wakes up every morning and thinks lifes all about making money anyway possible, i am not a 17 year old chav slapper that has been put up the duff by a low life junkie.

So when you see the Gell haired BTL spiv Landlord in his 4x4, sneer at him, spit at him, humiliate him, take the p**s out of him, but never for one minute make these people think that they are putting anything into our society, these filth will do anything that increases their "property wealth", they will over populate the Country with cheap Labour and potential tenants, they will have the Goverment subsidise them, they will have good familys thrown onto the Bed & Breakfast circuit.

They can have their BTL empires

BUT NEVER FOR ONE MINUTE LET THEM FEEL LIKE GOOD HUMAN MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY

Sam

excusing your generalisations to one side, will you feel better when the 'dreaded BTLetters' are in -ve equity

[Guest Yeahbutnocrash]

Initially you can't blame people for wanting to invest & make some money for their own & their families future in a form of investment which is legal. It's been a playing field open to everyone (though maybe not an entirely level one as some had inside knowledge)

It may not have been a problem if sufficient properties were being built

I dislike the greed aspect of any form of investing or profit taking

So particularly under the current circumstances I am against those who are relentlessly buying property whilst knowing they are pricing out FTB's

I guess there's often an 'I'm alright jack' winner & loser somewhere in profit making situations

You could probably also cast other forms of capitalist profit making in a negative light. But not surprisingly you are being as focused or selective as it suits you - That's understandable and is only human nature

I guess you feel you have missed out on buying property but I'm guessing you are still quite young and may not realise that it's been hard in the past for people to buy property - I had to wait until the late 80's crash until I could buy and I was in my 30's by then. I guess I would have also been pi55ed off if I had cocky LL's around me when I couldn't afford property

I agree it can be a good idea to get things off your chest but I would question having to have such an extreme rant where you are attempting to tarnish an entire section of society with the same brush (most people just won't take those comments seriously and will just see it as a rant)

If it's any consolation I heard today of an area in Bristol which now has a saturation of BTL (due to new property coming on-line) therefore keeping rents depressed

Edited January 9, 2007 by Yeahbutnocrash

[homeless]

i believe the true problem is the removal of the first rung and council housing.

and this is the exact area been targeted by BTL.

this is what is most annoying, its the very bottom that has been removed from the market, btl dont buy fancy houses to rent out they buy terraced starter homes.

even in the 80s boom it was still possible to get one of these starter homes, the dilapidated terrace house, and was also possible to get a council house.

However this time around in this boom, these have been removed and there is now no choice but to let a home off a speculative richer, often older person, that lives in a house in a nice part of town, feeding off the people with no money or little money is the name of the game.

With shares and bonds ect and commercial property and most else there is not such this feeding off the poorer members of society as there is in residential houses.

There truly needs to be a complete change in the law to remove home ownership away from btl and back into the hands of the people that just need a home.Im no communist infact im of the far right, and the far right in this country would never have allowed this to happen.We need to use our voice and our vote.

We should forget entirely about all the minor issues and go straight for the jugular and campaign on one issue only, which is to stop the speculation in home ownership that is destroying peoples lives.If we dont then the cycle will be repeated and repeated, and even some of us will most likely if giving the chance jump on the bandwagon.

starter homes built like after the war ie prefabs need to be built, they shouldnt contain all they extras that builders claim are needed to justify there high cost, they need to be cheap as hell and built on subsidised cost government land.

To remove the steam outta the market the market needs to lose its demand, and its actually the high price of housinmg that is creating the demand.in over words the cause is creating the cause.

This government should have been made to fix the housing shortage before letting anyone move to the uk, it failed and thus created the problem all on its own.It realy was a very foolish thing.

So what i would love to see is a once issue demand giving to politicians to change things, one that will help all and future generations as well.

or your kids might find themselves in a bedsit hovel with a landlord pulling up in his bmw to collect the rent off them that thew work half a hard graft week for.

I am so up for a demonstration on this issue, it needs to get major media coverage, not like us here in some distant bit of cyberspace with millions like us alone out there with there desperation and heartfelt angst.

[HOUSEHUNTER]

Homeless - I totally agree, it's a sick society we live in, children are being brought up in rented hovels but the BTL's don't think about that.

[a j]

i believe the true problem is the removal of the first rung and council housing.

and this is the exact area been targeted by BTL.

this is what is most annoying, its the very bottom that has been removed from the market, btl dont buy fancy houses to rent out they buy terraced starter homes.

even in the 80s boom it was still possible to get one of these starter homes, the dilapidated terrace house, and was also possible to get a council house.

However this time around in this boom, these have been removed and there is now no choice but to let a home off a speculative richer, often older person, that lives in a house in a nice part of town, feeding off the people with no money or little money is the name of the game.

With shares and bonds ect and commercial property and most else there is not such this feeding off the poorer members of society as there is in residential houses.

There truly needs to be a complete change in the law to remove home ownership away from btl and back into the hands of the people that just need a home.Im no communist infact im of the far right, and the far right in this country would never have allowed this to happen.We need to use our voice and our vote.

We should forget entirely about all the minor issues and go straight for the jugular and campaign on one issue only, which is to stop the speculation in home ownership that is destroying peoples lives.If we dont then the cycle will be repeated and repeated, and even some of us will most likely if giving the chance jump on the bandwagon.

starter homes built like after the war ie prefabs need to be built, they shouldnt contain all they extras that builders claim are needed to justify there high cost, they need to be cheap as hell and built on subsidised cost government land.

To remove the steam outta the market the market needs to lose its demand, and its actually the high price of housinmg that is creating the demand.in over words the cause is creating the cause.

This government should have been made to fix the housing shortage before letting anyone move to the uk, it failed and thus created the problem all on its own.It realy was a very foolish thing.

So what i would love to see is a once issue demand giving to politicians to change things, one that will help all and future generations as well.

or your kids might find themselves in a bedsit hovel with a landlord pulling up in his bmw to collect the rent off them that thew work half a hard graft week for.

I am so up for a demonstration on this issue, it needs to get major media coverage, not like us here in some distant bit of cyberspace with millions like us alone out there with there desperation and heartfelt angst.

Homeless,

Great post. How is Scotland treating you?

[Smell the Fear]

Homeless - I totally agree, it's a sick society we live in, children are being brought up in rented hovels but the BTL's don't think about that.

I think there are 2 sides to this story. IMO the BTLers are providing better quality properties than old-time landlords did (disgusting fleapits, hence the residual stigma in the UK abour renting). OK, so it is not as cheap as a council rent but there is one other major advantage which I think is often overlooked.

Council housing is in the form of dedicated estates where the poor were previously forced (more or less) to live. BTL properties are scattered all over every city, from the worst to the best areas. This has the effect of mixing all the social classes together, which undoubtedly a lot of rich folk abhor. There are probably some instances of poorer families lowering the tone, but on the whole I think it is a good thing as it allows people to stop fearing oneanother and exposes poor kids to concepts such as hard work and education. They can see the value of these things when they know people who have reaped the rewards of them.

I think this is probably a deliberate Nulabour policy, to dismantle the council estate sector and break down some of the centuries old class divisions in UK society (particularly, IMO in the south of England where class snobbery has been concentrated and social mobility is low). I have to say I think it is a good thing, although there is a lot to be ironed out such as the poor security of tenure which tenants currently have in the UK compared to e.g. continental europe.

[ex-MEWer]

If it wasn't for the BTl's where would us STR's live???

I my LL. He bought me this brand new all mod cons flat for 275k and allows me to rent it for 700pm on a 2 year contract. He also bought it for cash so there's slim chance of a repo unless he goes bankrupt. Top bloke!

Leave BTL landlords alone!

[HOUSEHUNTER]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/5382182.stm

read this Smell the Fear. Are you sure your a bear?

[HOUSEHUNTER]

Is it a bull's night on Tuesdays?

[Guest Yeahbutnocrash]

Homeless - I totally agree, it's a sick society we live in, children are being brought up in rented hovels but the BTL's don't think about that.

It seems there will always be poor people in society who will have it hard for one reason or other

Most of the bears & renters on this site keep posting about the cheap deals & value for money they can get at the moment

Though I realise they would prefer to have a choice if property were 'affordable'

Also they manage ok in some European countries where renting is the norm

Edited January 9, 2007 by Yeahbutnocrash

[Smell the Fear]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/5382182.stm

read this Smell the Fear. Are you sure your a bear?

I think you have misunderstood me - I am not saying all is rosy, just that landlords generally provide decent quality dwellings these days (at a price) and that mixing up social classes is better than having an undeclass isolated in a no-go estate which breeds hopelessness, criminality and exclusion.