kzb Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 57 minutes ago, captainb said: Do you do that trip more than 100 times a year? If so why.... If I do it once a week it is half my ration gone. 57 minutes ago, captainb said: Far more sensible particularly if money is an issue to do a big shop once a week? No it's not. That is what they want you to do, but it is more expensive. You have to shop around these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: You are just winding yourself up with a couple more strawman. Keeping cars off residential roads, not designed for through traffic, is not banning them. EVs will be for everyone, prices are coming down fast in the US a Tesla model 3 is already cheaper than the average car to buy and has overall ownership costs in line with a basic compact car. I don't know anyone with an EV who has an ICE as a backup. Backup for what, the world running out of electricity? Everyone I know that has one also has alternative petrol or diesel car..... The infrastructure for wholly electric cars is not supportive enough...... everyone I know with an EV has hard drive to park it on.......are you saying those that live in flats are disadvantaged twice?......all right for those living in tree lined cordoned off, closed to through traffic, residential roads with tarmacked drives, or can park outside to charge.......two tiered society, them and us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 4 hours ago, winkie said: Everyone I know that has one also has alternative petrol or diesel car..... The infrastructure for wholly electric cars is not supportive enough...... everyone I know with an EV has hard drive to park it on.......are you saying those that live in flats are disadvantaged twice?......all right for those living in tree lined cordoned off, closed to through traffic, residential roads with tarmacked drives, or can park outside to charge.......two tiered society, them and us. We already live in a two tier society, those with cars and those (half the country) without. All you seem to care about is you. Making life better for those without may mean you have a little inconvenience but so what. The average person would need to charge their EV less than once a week, not exactly a huge problem, I believe those driving ICEs have to find somewhere to fill up with dinosaur juice about once a week but they seem to manage it. NB If I didn't have home charging I would plug in at our weekly visit to the local M&S, job done and no time wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: We already live in a two tier society, those with cars and those (half the country) without. All you seem to care about is you. Making life better for those without may mean you have a little inconvenience but so what. I would say the vast majority are reliant on cars rather than just half. In cities this does drop somewhat but they have alternatives, and those in cities can forget a world beyond even exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Capitalist Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: We already live in a two tier society, those with cars and those (half the country) without. All you seem to care about is you. Making life better for those without may mean you have a little inconvenience but so what. The average person would need to charge their EV less than once a week, not exactly a huge problem, I believe those driving ICEs have to find somewhere to fill up with dinosaur juice about once a week but they seem to manage it. NB If I didn't have home charging I would plug in at our weekly visit to the local M&S, job done and no time wasted. Dinosaur juice lol. That's some retarded choice of words right there. EVs will not be for everyone and they won't replace ICE vehicles. They will not come down in price much more from here and a Tesla model 3 is not cheaper than the average car to buy. You are living in fantasy land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 minute ago, The Angry Capitalist said: Dinosaur juice lol. That's some retarded choice of words right there. A joke sorry if it went over your head 1 minute ago, The Angry Capitalist said: EVs will not be for everyone and they won't replace ICE vehicles. Haven't you noticed, no more ICEs after 2030. 1 minute ago, The Angry Capitalist said: They will not come down in price much more from here and a Tesla model 3 is not cheaper than the average car to buy. Tesla say they will reduce the cost of their next generation cars by 50%, I suspect they know better than you about this. The base Tesla model 3 is almost 10% cheaper than the average US car 1 minute ago, The Angry Capitalist said: You are living in fantasy land. Been here for about 6 years now, so far its going pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, nightowl said: I would say the vast majority are reliant on cars rather than just half. In cities this does drop somewhat but they have alternatives, and those in cities can forget a world beyond even exists. That's a valid point, but the car lobby always forget that a significant part of the population don't have access and that for them life would be much better with fewer cars and better public transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Capitalist Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 18 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: A joke sorry if it went over your head Haven't you noticed, no more ICEs after 2030. Tesla say they will reduce the cost of their next generation cars by 50%, I suspect they know better than you about this. The base Tesla model 3 is almost 10% cheaper than the average US car Been here for about 6 years now, so far its going pretty well. Got the joke. That 2030 mandate will get pushed back or completely removed. Moronic politicians try to pass moronic laws. Tesla and Musk say whatever they need to say to sell vehicles and boost their share price. The only thing they know is how to scam the public. Tesla can currently lower prices due to carbon credits and subsidies which will eventually both be stopped. Electric cars cannot compete with ICE cars in a free market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: That's a valid point, but the car lobby always forget that a significant part of the population don't have access and that for them life would be much better with fewer cars and better public transport. There's something like 38 million cars, which is a majority of the working age population. Also it is more than the number of UK households. OK there is no shortage of multicar households, but even so the majority of households will have at least one car these days. More to the point, this is the economically active part of the population. These are the people who work and pay taxes, and don't have time to stroll about or mess about with public transport. Edited May 25, 2023 by kzb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, kzb said: There's something like 38 million cars, which is a majority of the working age population. Also it is more than the number of UK households. OK there is no shortage of multicar households, but even so the majority of households will have at least one car these days. More to the point, this is the economically active part of the population. These are the people who work and pay taxes, and don't have time to stroll about or mess about with public transport. The most productive parts of the country have the fewest cars per head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: The most productive parts of the country have the fewest cars per head. Because they have a tube system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Angry Capitalist said: Got the joke. That 2030 mandate will get pushed back or completely removed. Moronic politicians try to pass moronic laws. Doesn't matter no one will be buying them long before 2030 13 minutes ago, The Angry Capitalist said: Tesla and Musk say whatever they need to say to sell vehicles and boost their share price. The only thing they know is how to scam the public. Selling better cars cheaper than anyone else id hardly a scam 13 minutes ago, The Angry Capitalist said: Tesla can currently lower prices due to carbon credits and subsidies which will eventually both be stopped. They are a small part of Tesla's income and because the legacy manufactures are unable to scale up their EV production fast enough they will grow for the next few years 13 minutes ago, The Angry Capitalist said: Electric cars cannot compete with ICE cars in a free market. So tell me what ICE car can compete with even my 2019 Model S, 0-60 in 2.5s seats five, huge boot/frunk and costs less to run than a Fiesta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 7 hours ago, The Angry Capitalist said: EVs will not be for everyone and they won't replace ICE vehicles. Yes they will. In fact they already are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14stFlyer Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 6 hours ago, kzb said: These are the people who work and pay taxes, and don't have time to stroll about or mess about with public transport. But do have time to waste in traffic jams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said: But do have time to waste in traffic jams? Design cities around cars and you force everyone to take the car and create congestion. The ideal of transport planning is often not to get the traffic flowing but to eliminate the need for journeys and ensure that people travelling does not ruin the environment people live in. Which is actually a radical rethinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: We already live in a two tier society, those with cars and those (half the country) without. All you seem to care about is you. Making life better for those without may mean you have a little inconvenience but so what. The average person would need to charge their EV less than once a week, not exactly a huge problem, I believe those driving ICEs have to find somewhere to fill up with dinosaur juice about once a week but they seem to manage it. NB If I didn't have home charging I would plug in at our weekly visit to the local M&S, job done and no time wasted. No less about cars, shouldn't need one in London......would need one in other places where there is no public transport.....where plenty of green fields and clear clean roads....M&S what is that! Second class citizens......you need to get out and see things outside your 15 minute circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballyk Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, winkie said: No less about cars, shouldn't need one in London......would need one in other places where there is no public transport.....where plenty of green fields and clear clean roads....M&S what is that! Second class citizens......you need to get out and see things outside your 15 minute circle. If you do genuinely care about the poor, you would want everyone to be able to afford an electric car. There are some very bad health outcomes related to traffic pollution and the poor live disproportionately in polluted areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, Ballyk said: If you do genuinely care about the poor, you would want everyone to be able to afford an electric car. There are some very bad health outcomes related to traffic pollution and the poor live disproportionately in polluted areas. Unrealistic to expect everyone to own a car.....not everyone needs a car......yes they live in polluted roads when traffic is diverted down fewer roads, meaning sitting in traffic and have to travel longer distances.....ban all private cars.....then those who can afford to pay for a dirty car won't drive it. The infrastructure is not good enough for everyone to have a EV......not everyone wants one, let people have a choice as to what car they drive outside the car free area......paying the ulez would for some be much cheaper than buying an EV. When many are waiting for hydrogen cars, now that sounds cool...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballyk Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, winkie said: Unrealistic to expect everyone to own a car.....not everyone needs a car......yes they live in polluted roads when traffic is diverted down fewer roads, meaning sitting in traffic and have to travel longer distances.....ban all private cars.....then those who can afford to pay for a dirty car won't drive it. The infrastructure is not good enough for everyone to have a EV......not everyone wants one, let people have a choice as to what car they drive outside the car free area......paying the ulez would for some be much cheaper than buying an EV. When many are waiting for hydrogen cars, now that sounds cool...... Hydrogen cars are not good. Terrible for the environment and will always be more expensive to buy and fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 26 minutes ago, Ballyk said: If you do genuinely care about the poor, you would want everyone to be able to afford an electric car. There are some very bad health outcomes related to traffic pollution and the poor live disproportionately in polluted areas. Yes, it would be great if everyone could afford an electrical car and also have the choice whether or not they want one rather than needing one. We have the wealth in this nation for such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, Ballyk said: Hydrogen cars are not good. Terrible for the environment and will always be more expensive to buy and fuel. Not that different to electric cars, expensive, heavy dirty lithium batteries, electricity made using gas.....nobody in their right mind would want every part of life dependant on one source of energy.... electricity, anyway the national grid would not cope, power cuts stranded in more ways than one...... sabotage also has to be considered.....as it stands I am not interested in the least, no desire for an EV......let others be the guinea pigs. Not as if could have a spare gallon of petrol in the boot for emergencies.......if in accident a complete write off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: The most productive parts of the country have the fewest cars per head. This as @kzb says is a London only phenomena. People who can live their lives without needed cars all the time do like to lecture those who can't. There was a story that when Kahn worked as in London city he drive a 4x4 to work despite the available alternatives. If true it does illustrate this. While central London is very crowded and we'll served by public transport the outer suburbs it's less good. In any case the white van man still needs to get around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Capitalist Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 hour ago, 14stFlyer said: But do have time to waste in traffic jams? They are in traffic jams because they have to commute to work. Living close to where they work is not affordable due to house prices. They live further away where prices are much cheaper and the motor car enables that. Traffic jams is a trade off but they are still better off than living in the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Capitalist Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 hour ago, 14stFlyer said: Yes they will. In fact they already are. No they are not. They are a niche market and they will stay that way. There is no point debating it, however. By 2030 you will know for certain by the data even though physics will tell you that already but clearly you will need sales figures to convince you. The only way EVs supersede the ICE is if we have some revolutionary battery innovation which is nowhere on the horizon. If that don't happen then bye bye EVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Capitalist Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 36 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Yes, it would be great if everyone could afford an electrical car and also have the choice whether or not they want one rather than needing one. We have the wealth in this nation for such a thing. Lol. That's comical. What planet are you living on? Where is all this "wealth" you claim we all have as a nation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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