MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 hours ago, Aidan Ap Word said: Cobalt in LFP batteries: 0. Cobalt in 4680 cells: 0. Cobalt destroyed in Lion batteries: 0. Cobalt destroyed in refinment of fuel oil: all of it. Yoiu don't care enough to do any proper research before dredging out troll-fueled FUD over and over again. Oh I guess the child labour are digging it out the Congo earth just for fun then. 🤡🤡🤡🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Holy fckin COPE. Imagine the clown surprise... Electric vehicle (EV) leader TeslaTSLA +0.1% is coming clean on its Scope 3 emissions, emissions produced, say, by suppliers and vendors, who lie outside the companies’ immediate operations, impact. The EV’s Scope 3 emissions accounted for more than 30.1 million metric tons of CO2 battery supply chain. Most of Tesla’s emissions come from chemical processing of lithium, nickel and cobalt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 The range of an EV drops by over 30% in cold weather and many clown are being asked not to charge their cars to conserve power. Fckin priceless it's brilliant. What an inovation. Little wonder EV clown cars where superceeded over 120 years ago. 🤡🤡🤡🤡 https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/01/17/tesla-battery-cold-weather-not-charging-ev-infrastructure/72256166007/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTB-house-hunter Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 @MonsieurCopperCrutch can I just ask, who hurt you so badly? Or are you just that heavily invested in stocks belonging to ICE manufactures? Honestly you are acting like a child 🤨 Anyone with any common sense can see EV's are the future for the vast majority and are much more environmentally friendly when compared to ICE equivalence. The vast majority of drivers are doing small local trips, not 200+ miles per trip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Oh I guess the child labour are digging it out the Congo earth just for fun then. 🤡🤡🤡🤡 Do keep up, oil requires cobalt for refinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunketh Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 51 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: The range of an EV drops by over 30% in cold weather and many clown are being asked not to charge their cars to conserve power. Fckin priceless it's brilliant. What an inovation. Little wonder EV clown cars where superceeded over 120 years ago. 🤡🤡🤡🤡 https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/01/17/tesla-battery-cold-weather-not-charging-ev-infrastructure/72256166007/ oh dear lord where to start. actually I wont bother. You are either: A - A troll - primary suspicion B - Stupid enough to buy individual stocks, and you are heavy on petrochemicals / ICE dinosaurs C - A paid shill - My least favourite option given how ******ing thick you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthamptonBear Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, Chunketh said: oh dear lord where to start. actually I wont bother. You are either: A - A troll - primary suspicion B - Stupid enough to buy individual stocks, and you are heavy on petrochemicals / ICE dinosaurs C - A paid shill - My least favourite option given how ******ing thick you are Some EV owners get paid to charge their cars to stabilise the grid. Artisanal cobalt is primarily used in oil refining. None is used in LFP batteries (most of Teslas). Next he'll be posting a picture of a lithium mine when it's an old iron / copper mine. I struggle to believe that people fall for these anti-EV lies or aren't embarrassed to repeat lies that any sane person can see straight through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erat_forte Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 hours ago, FTB-house-hunter said: @MonsieurCopperCrutch can I just ask, who hurt you so badly? Or are you just that heavily invested in stocks belonging to ICE manufactures? Honestly you are acting like a child 🤨 Anyone with any common sense can see EV's are the future for the vast majority and are much more environmentally friendly when compared to ICE equivalence. The vast majority of drivers are doing small local trips, not 200+ miles per trip! Well... I think EVs and ICEs have quite different use-cases. I think any proposal to electrify all the current world vehicle fleet like for like is pie in the sky... but clearly a good number of people are enjoying using EVs. But I disagree with you about "the future for the vast majority" - I would be thinking that space is for pushbikes and handcarts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 17 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said: It's hard to destroy an element. Which colbalt is. The only way you can destroy it is to transmute it by bombarding it with particles like neutrons and small atomic nuclei at high energy. You can make it uneconomic to recover, either via reaction with other elements or by dispersal. But destruction, no. So why do refineries constantly buy it? It must be "somewhere" after they have used in in making petrol and diesel from crude oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 19 hours ago, The Angry Capitalist said: But that's still only 14 years old. I drive a 2002 Toyota. Pissy poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, markyh said: So why do refineries constantly buy it? It must be "somewhere" after they have used in in making petrol and diesel from crude oil. It will be used as a catalyst. Once the catalyst is 'spent' the cobalt is still there it is not destroyed. There are chemical processes to regenerate spent catalyst. If they don't regen the catalyst to recover the cobalt then it is because it is uneconomical to do so or simply easier just to buy new catalyst. A bit like why all these dud batteries will litter the landscape as 'static storage' as it will be extremely hard/uneconomic to recycle the batteries to recover the chemicals within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTB-house-hunter Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 4 hours ago, erat_forte said: Well... I think EVs and ICEs have quite different use-cases. I think any proposal to electrify all the current world vehicle fleet like for like is pie in the sky... but clearly a good number of people are enjoying using EVs. But I disagree with you about "the future for the vast majority" - I would be thinking that space is for pushbikes and handcarts. Indeed they do have different user cases. The majority of car journeys are however local, and so a much better fit for an EV when the second hand market improves. Even in huge places such as the US, 95.1 percent of trips taken in personal vehicles are less than 31 miles; almost 60 percent of all trips are less than 6 miles. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2023/07/07/ev-range-anxiety-battery-myth/ Places that already have a large number of bikes/motorbikes (such as India) will do very well with small electrified vehicles instead of cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTB-house-hunter Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 32 minutes ago, Jean-Luc said: It will be used as a catalyst. Once the catalyst is 'spent' the cobalt is still there it is not destroyed. There are chemical processes to regenerate spent catalyst. If they don't regen the catalyst to recover the cobalt then it is because it is uneconomical to do so or simply easier just to buy new catalyst. A bit like why all these dud batteries will litter the landscape as 'static storage' as it will be extremely hard/uneconomic to recycle the batteries to recover the chemicals within. I think you should do some more research if you think batteries are not easily recyclable. Black mass is the new black gold. It's already being done right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FTB-house-hunter said: I think you should do some more research if you think batteries are not easily recyclable. Black mass is the new black gold. It's already being done right now. I don't really care enough to check your 'facts'. If it is who cares it does not change the pitfalls of EVs faced by the consumer. I personally couldn't care less what happens to my car/battery when the lease expires. Doesn't change the fact that for a majority of people EV's are inferior to ICE. Edited January 20 by Jean-Luc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthamptonBear Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, markyh said: So why do refineries constantly buy it? It must be "somewhere" after they have used in in making petrol and diesel from crude oil. Heavy metals gushing from the exhaust of a Range Rover at pram level outside schools. It's illegal, but few are prosecuted. Of course the driver is also inhaling this pollution and the heavy metals add to the chances of lower IQ, impotence, Alzheimer's and heart/lung diseases. Quote Under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, engine idling is an offence. The Highway Code also has a rule against engine idling. Rule 123 states: “You MUST NOT leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road. Generally, if the vehicle is stationary and is likely to remain so for more than a couple of minutes, you should apply the parking brake and switch off the engine to reduce emissions and noise pollution. However, it is permissible to leave the engine running if the vehicle is stationary in traffic or for diagnosing faults.” In the Highway Code, the words ‘must’ and ‘must not’ indicate legal requirements. Other parts of the Code use ‘should’, ‘should not’, ‘do’, and ‘do not’ and while violating these rules isn’t a criminal offence, it can still be used against you in court. This law only applies to public roads, so it’s not illegal to leave your engine running while your car’s on private property (for example, on your drive). However, it’s best practice to switch the engine off if you’re going to be waiting for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthamptonBear Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Jean-Luc said: It will be used as a catalyst. Once the catalyst is 'spent' the cobalt is still there it is not destroyed. There are chemical processes to regenerate spent catalyst. If they don't regen the catalyst to recover the cobalt then it is because it is uneconomical to do so or simply easier just to buy new catalyst. A bit like why all these dud batteries will litter the landscape as 'static storage' as it will be extremely hard/uneconomic to recycle the batteries to recover the chemicals within. Batteries are economic to recycle now (high concentration of high value materials) and in high demand as secondary/static storage. "Problem" is that batteries last much longer than was predicted - so recycling feedstock is low. Too many recyclers fighting over limited batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno1167 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 hours ago, NorthamptonBear said: Batteries are economic to recycle now (high concentration of high value materials) and in high demand as secondary/static storage. "Problem" is that batteries last much longer than was predicted - so recycling feedstock is low. Too many recyclers fighting over limited batteries. Case in point . Friend of mine in Utah has a model S. lives high up and drives all year round , lower down also where it’s super hot . He’s on nearly 200K miles . Reckons less than 10% noticeable reduction in range over lifetime . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballyk Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Johnno1167 said: Case in point . Friend of mine in Utah has a model S. lives high up and drives all year round , lower down also where it’s super hot . He’s on nearly 200K miles . Reckons less than 10% noticeable reduction in range over lifetime . Living at altitude, also no performance deterioration with EVs. Unlike ICE cars, where combustion is impaired by lack of oxygen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 This thread packed with pleased with themselves posts by the demographic for whom EVs make the most sense. What use is this to the rest of us? It must be really getting on the tits of the majority that the lions share of the benefit of energy schemes & emerging tech is going to those who really don’t need a helping hand - if anything they should be paying in more to help the less fortunate benefit. More information on how people without drives, the means or opportunity to fit solar systems & typical household incomes can have their lives revolutionised by EVs would be great. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballyk Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, hotblack42 said: This thread packed with pleased with themselves posts by the demographic for whom EVs make the most sense. What use is this to the rest of us? It must be really getting on the tits of the majority that the lions share of the benefit of energy schemes & emerging tech is going to those who really don’t need a helping hand - if anything they should be paying in more to help the less fortunate benefit. More information on how people without drives, the means or opportunity to fit solar systems & typical household incomes can have their lives revolutionised by EVs would be great. Ta. What you must remember is that new technology is expensive. And so the early adoptors who are buying expensive EV's are helping to democratise the technology, so that it filters down into less expensive cars. We saw exactly the same thing happen with mobile phones, which were extremely expensive at the start, then 30 years on, everyone has them. Tesla has been following the strategy of starting off with very expensive cars, then gradually they have brought the prices down. Their next generation smaller car will be on a par cost-wise with mass market cars. Also bear in mind that new cars become second hand cars. So if the government encourages folk to buy more expensive EV's now, then in 5 years time a lot more people will be able to get an EV second hand. But I agree, the government should be doing a lot more to help everyone into EVs. Norway, which currently has 80% + EV sales, is a good example of how it can be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, hotblack42 said: This thread packed with pleased with themselves posts by the demographic for whom EVs make the most sense. What use is this to the rest of us? It must be really getting on the tits of the majority that the lions share of the benefit of energy schemes & emerging tech is going to those who really don’t need a helping hand - if anything they should be paying in more to help the less fortunate benefit. More information on how people without drives, the means or opportunity to fit solar systems & typical household incomes can have their lives revolutionised by EVs would be great. Ta. ****** the poor, Walking , cycling, e-bikes, buses ,trains and e-scooters. Want a EV , work harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 25 minutes ago, markyh said: Want a EV , work harder. Pop quiz, who gets better off if everyone works harder? Clue: not the people in the lower half of the income distribution. You seem to have bought into the winners & losers world view & so long as you are a winner, the losers are SEP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Clown car owners furious that they are only getting <100 range in cold weather. 🫣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 48 minutes ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Clown car owners furious that they are only getting <100 range in cold weather. 🫣 And you Clicked on it, and that's what they want, attention for FUD. Plenty of real owners calling this out as BS on the tweet. Wife had a hard schedule of driving yesterday in her 2022 Tesla model Y LR, was 2 degrees to 4 degrees all day. Started the day with 90% SOC, 300 miles range, used heating a 20 deg C, heated seats, heated steering wheel. Went for Home to Town A, back Home, To town B , Back to town A , Back home, Back to town A , then to town B again , then to town C , then finally back home. She did 220 Miles. Didn't have to charge once. got home with plenty of range to spare, plugged in, the car charged up overnight back to 90% this morning. Car took 60 kWh to recharge. Cost us £4.50. So glad we have a cheap to run Clown car, even it is doesn't work in cold temperatures, apparently. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 23 hours ago, NorthamptonBear said: Heavy metals gushing from the exhaust of a Range Rover at pram level outside schools. It's illegal, but few are prosecuted. Of course the driver is also inhaling this pollution and the heavy metals add to the chances of lower IQ, impotence, Alzheimer's and heart/lung diseases. I am pro ev. But the idea that heavy metals "gush" from the exhausts of ICE cars is ludicrous. Most of the metals from car pollution probably come from brake dust. Maybe 30 years or so ago the claim might stand up as tetra ethyl lead used to be an additive to improve fuel performance. But not today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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