Benefits of Brexit

[IMHAL]

2 hours ago, rollover said:

Typical Brexit creeping Jesus.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Just interested, where is the wrong tree located? You can tell me. I won't tell anyone else. Promise

BTW, I am not a xenophobe. I like a foreign perspectibe. I just don't like our democracy being taken advantage of, especially by the like of you who is busy supporting Russia who is about as anti-democratic as they come. 

[Confusion of VIs]

2 hours ago, Unmoderated said:

Is it possible to be in favour of vaccines and anti lockdown?  

I agree with you the lookdowns were a  nonsense. Purely political because, let's face it, hospitals would have been overwhelmed with the undead for about two weeks. MSM loved it picking up on India and Brazil. Their peaks lasted very little time. Obviously sad for those that died but it's always sad. Govt would get blame so they did the obvious and pushed it down the road. We don't lock up for the flu each year and that kills plenty!

I'm rather proud that we were the last to lockdown in EU. Sweden never locked down. imho they got it exactly right!

Sweden's voluntary lockdown was pretty effective. 

1 hour ago, Staffsknot said:

It destroyed the Tories batshit brigade about now?

That's the one real Brexit benefit.

[Confusion of VIs]

3 hours ago, FallingAwake said:

The real benefit of Brexit is that it has shown people are unable to make valid comparisons.

They compare 40+ years of being in a customs and quasi political Union, with 2 years of being out (and a pandemic and European war in those 2 years).

A valid comparison would be comparing 2021 and 2022 (Out) with 1973 and 1974 (In).

Other countries had the same issues but have coped better and Brexit's damage is far from over.

 

[MARTINX9]

16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Other countries had the same issues but have coped better and Brexit's damage is far from over.

 

There are 13 EU member states that have had a higher death toll per capita from Covid than the UK - and 14 which have had a lower death toll.

The economic impacts in terms of GDP changes have not been exactly uniform either.

Not sure therefore if you can suggest there is a clear correlation due to Brexit when there hasn't been a consistent impact within the EU itself - it reflects different government responses not EU membership.

Edited October 18, 2022 by MARTINX9

[FallingAwake]

1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Other countries had the same issues but have coped better and Brexit's damage is far from over.

I don't buy into the "sky is falling" hyperbole of the rabid remainers.

I also don't buy into the OP's question either, since it assumes that for Brexit to be deemed "successful" there has to be short-term, immediately measurable "tangible benefits", i.e. if there was an uptick in GDP by 10% when we left, that would be a "success" while a downtick of 10% would be a "failure"?

That's a very narrow view.

For me, leaving was the success. Now it's up to us as a country to make something of it.

I concede that the government have not done a very good job of capitalising on it so far, but to be fair, they've also had to deal with a worldwide pandemic, a war in Europe and an energy crisis, all in the space of the 21 months since we left.

[IMHAL]

1 minute ago, FallingAwake said:

For me, leaving was the success. Now it's up to us as a country to make something of it.

Good for you. You have one vote. Now the rest can make their own minds up, especially when they have to 'make something of it', that something being the mess that it has left us by this Brexit party.

[Pmax2020]

2 minutes ago, FallingAwake said:

I don't buy into the "sky is falling" hyperbole of the rabid remainers.

I also don't buy into the OP's question either, since it assumes that for Brexit to be deemed "successful" there has to be short-term, immediately measurable "tangible benefits", i.e. if there was an uptick in GDP by 10% when we left, that would be a "success" while a downtick of 10% would be a "failure"?

That's a very narrow view.

For me, leaving was the success. Now it's up to us as a country to make something of it.

I concede that the government have not done a very good job of capitalising on it so far, but to be fair, they've also had to deal with a worldwide pandemic, a war in Europe and an energy crisis, all in the space of the 21 months since we left.

I didn’t think it was too much to ask if there were some clear benefits for people of the forum.

The area of construction I work in lost a lot of migrant workers that drove for us. A void that we’ve not been able to fill. So much so, that many managers and ‘professional staff’ are undergoing their HGV license to protect our business. 

On a personal level, foods gone up enormously and the navigating the airport for the family holiday is less convenient.

I just thought someone would be able to give an example of a barrier that’s now gone that aids their company. 
 

 

[FallingAwake]

2 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Good for you. You have one vote. Now the rest can make their own minds up, especially when they have to 'make something of it', that something being the mess that it has left us by this Brexit party.

Fortunately, lots of people aren't as narrow minded as the rabid remainers on this forum.

Boris' downfall wasn't Brexit, but partying during lockdown. The Tory party's downfall won't be Brexit, but their low-interest property-ramping since 2010, which has now come to bite them in the bum, along with not being prepared for things like an energy crisis. Not Brexit. Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble.

[mynamehere]

The only benifit of Brexit was proving we do have a democracy of sorts. Good to know, now let's have another vote.

 

 

[FallingAwake]

5 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said:

I didn’t think it was too much to ask if there were some clear benefits for people of the forum.

The area of construction I work in lost a lot of migrant workers that drove for us. A void that we’ve not been able to fill. So much so, that many managers and ‘professional staff’ are undergoing their HGV license to protect our business. 

Why did you need migrant workers to drive for you? I presume you were paying at least the legal minimum wage, right?

I have known British care workers who effectively wipe people's bums for a minimum wage, so I'm curious to know why you think British people aren't able to drive trucks.

5 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said:

On a personal level, foods gone up enormously

Mainly due to the energy crisis rather than Brexit.

5 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said:

and the navigating the airport for the family holiday is less convenient.

OK.

5 minutes ago, Pmax2020 said:

I just thought someone would be able to give an example of a barrier that’s now gone that aids their company. 

I guess part of the problem is, while we're out, I'm not sure how many of the rules, regulations and red tape have been done away with yet.

Hopefully once we have a stable government (  ) they can get onto that more effectively.

[FallingAwake]

2 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

The only benifit of Brexit was proving we do have a democracy of sorts. Good to know, now let's have another vote.

 

 

Sure, we tend to vote on Europe every 40 years or so, so circle 2060 on your calendar.

[Pmax2020]

3 minutes ago, FallingAwake said:

Why did you need migrant workers to drive for you? I presume you were paying at least the legal minimum wage, right?

I have known British care workers who effectively wipe people's bums for a minimum wage, so I'm curious to know why you think British people aren't able to drive trucks.

Mainly due to the energy crisis rather than Brexit.

OK.

I guess part of the problem is, while we're out, I'm not sure how many of the rules, regulations and red tape have been done away with yet.

Hopefully once we have a stable government (  ) they can get onto that more effectively.

No, our HGV drivers were paid well above the living wage. A lot of our drivers were polish (20-30% I’d say pre-brexit) but they’ve left the UK and not returned. 

Recruiting people into construction is nearly impossible right now. Last year we held a radio campaign for several weeks regarding on open day. One person showed up. Unbelievable. 

We recently advertised a couple of ‘Transport officer’ posts and only received 2 applications. 

It’s probably unrelated to Brexit but recruitment across many industries in the UK is a nightmare right now. I keep telling friends not to worry about their jobs - if they they get paid off I can get them in my company later that same day!!
 

[mynamehere]

9 minutes ago, FallingAwake said:

Sure, we tend to vote on Europe every 40 years or so, so circle 2060 on your calendar.

We vote whenever the public wills it. We tentatively proposed a second vote in 2018 but the public rejected the idea. I suspect however the public wants one now. 

If the public wants a referendum every 43 hours then that's what should happen.  

 

[TheResponsibleHouseBuyer]

15 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

We vote whenever the public wills it. We tentatively proposed a second vote in 2018 but the public rejected the idea. I suspect however the public wants one now. 

If the public wants a referendum every 43 hours then that's what should happen.  

 

Then we adopt the swiss model.

[FallingAwake]

14 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

We vote whenever the public wills it. We tentatively proposed a second vote in 2018 but the public rejected the idea. I suspect however the public wants one now. 

Of course you suspect that.  Remainers always do, just like they suspected the British public would vote to Remain in 2016

14 minutes ago, mynamehere said:

If the public wants a referendum every 43 hours then that's what should happen.  

 

I sincerely disagree, especially when it comes to economic and political unions.

It's not the hokey-cokey where you're in, out, in, out, and shake it all about.

I'm sure your Scottish National Party friends will be happy to have as many referendums as it takes to get the result they want... and then no referendums after that.

[mynamehere]

2 minutes ago, FallingAwake said:

Of course you suspect that.  Remainers always do, just like they suspected the British public would vote to Remain in 2016

I sincerely disagree, especially when it comes to economic and political unions.

It's not the hokey-cokey where you're in, out, in, out, and shake it all about.

I'm sure your Scottish National Party friends will be happy to have as many referendums as it takes to get the result they want... and then no referendums after that.

Because you say so? 

That's not how democracies work. Whether or not you sincerely disagree matters not one jot. 

If there is democratic mandate it will happen. Simple. 

Obviously referendums are technically advisory, and EU needs to play ball, but there is nothing stopping a second ref at all, if there is political will for one.

And no imaginary 'generation' period either.

 

 

 

 

 

[FallingAwake]

1 minute ago, mynamehere said:

Because you say so? 

That's not how democracies work. Whether or not you sincerely disagree matters not one jot. 

If there is democratic mandate it will happen. Simple. 

True. These things are ultimately determined by the "democratic mandate", which is determined by political parties.

I doubt either the red or blue team will want to run another EU referendum any time soon.

1 minute ago, mynamehere said:

Obviously referendums are technically advisory, and EU needs to play ball, but there is nothing stopping a second ref at all, if there is political will for one.

And no imaginary 'generation' period either.

Sure. But then, so is a third, fourth, fifth, sixth etc referendum. Maybe make it every year, so we can join or leave the EU at the public's whim.

So potentially like the hokey-cokey, right?

[mynamehere]

In practice it’s highly unlikely to be recurrent  refs on a Constitutional issue because it’s such a huge and energy sapping endeavour  

But brexit was such monumental cock up, it’s quite possible  the public will think it worth it  

If so, I would guess it’s more likely than not, that labour will win a landslide in 2 years. Then pledge a second ref if they win the election after that. 

if we do rejoin eu we know from experience it’s not likely to be a disaster so a 3rd vote will be very unlikely 

So no hokey pokey no

Edited October 19, 2022 by mynamehere

[Bob8]

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Sweden's voluntary lockdown was pretty effective. 

That's the one real Brexit benefit.

Keep it to the Covid thread, I suggest.

[Bob8]

9 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

It destroyed the Tories batshit brigade about now?

That is true, but perhaps not a clear advantage. As log as one half of the party passioately believes eating donuts is hte best route to weight loss and they just have to up the in take, there will be self-destructive streak.

[Pmax2020]

5 hours ago, FallingAwake said:

True. These things are ultimately determined by the "democratic mandate", which is determined by political parties.

I doubt either the red or blue team will want to run another EU referendum any time soon.

Sure. But then, so is a third, fourth, fifth, sixth etc referendum. Maybe make it every year, so we can join or leave the EU at the public's whim.

So potentially like the hokey-cokey, right?

Except when it comes to Scottish independence, right? Because we have a pro-independence majority in our parliament - in spite of having a proportional representation system that’s designed to dilute the vote of a dominant party.

Yet we’re told referendums are “once in a generation”, and we need to wait indefinitely on another chance to vote at some unknown point in the future.

[Ballyk]

The FT published this yesterday which I thought was pretty fair -

 

 

[14stFlyer]

7 hours ago, mynamehere said:

We vote whenever the public wills it. We tentatively proposed a second vote in 2018 but the public rejected the idea. I suspect however the public wants one now. 

No. We don’t. Most of us have moved on and want to live our lives.  

[Unmoderated]

8 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Sweden's voluntary lockdown was pretty effective. 

Lockdown's are not voluntary lol. 

The only restriction was around gatherings being limited to 50.

[slawek]

13 minutes ago, 14stFlyer said:

No. We don’t. Most of us have moved on and want to live our lives.  

What is this then?