Will Russia invade Ukraine and what happens if it escalates with NATO/US getting involved

[Lucky Larry]

1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

Ah so, Zelenkskyy started the war proper by not gifting Russia what it nicked by force. Perhaps he should have committed Seppuku instead of trying to defend his sovereign country and innocent people from a raping, torturing, murdering, lying, genocidal aggressor.

Not sure what part of the brain is responsible for logic, but yours seems to be in deep sleep mode.

Your conclusions are erratic and have no basis on what I have said . The US started this war by organising a coup then arming their puppet regime to bomb the Donbas , Zelensky didn't arrive for 3 years on a manifesto that promised to deliver peace , he didn't . He has presided over corruption and filled his own pockets (and his nostrils) and when peace was possible he backed down to appease his Western backers . The crimes committed in this war are on both sides , the Azov thugs have treated their own people horrendously . Zelensky is a fraud who is getting rich by selling out his country not saving it . 

[Grayphil]

1 hour ago, Lucky Larry said:

Your conclusions are erratic and have no basis on what I have said . The US started this war by organising a coup then arming their puppet regime to bomb the Donbas , Zelensky didn't arrive for 3 years on a manifesto that promised to deliver peace , he didn't . He has presided over corruption and filled his own pockets (and his nostrils) and when peace was possible he backed down to appease his Western backers . The crimes committed in this war are on both sides , the Azov thugs have treated their own people horrendously . Zelensky is a fraud who is getting rich by selling out his country not saving it . 

It must be nice to not care about being in anyway honest in your posts, I realise it may work on the Qanon boards which you probably lurk on, but on some sites like HPC it really doesn't was that easily

Zelensky was elected on an anti corruption mandate, he said that he would seek closer ties with the EU and NATO and increase defence spending from about 3% to around 5% if I remember correctly.

He has made huge strides in tackling corruption, given Covid and the Russian invasion I think he has done a bloody amazing job.

I don't think there are many politicians in the UK or the west that could come close to his levels of competence 

As for the idiotic stories of him being a rampant coke head who is siphoning off the Ukrainian money is incorrect and pathetic, but the interesting thing is you don't criticise Putin, who is probably the Richest person on the planet. Who has come to power through murdering people, and maintained his grasp on power by eliminating the competition by killing them or locking them up, running the dodgiest of elections all the while siphoning off the wealth of the Russian nation to share between him and his select group of mates.

You cry about the corruptions and issues of the west but ignore completely the ones who do it by a magnitude of scale.

 

[Lucky Larry]

23 minutes ago, Grayphil said:

He has made huge strides in tackling corruption,

 

23 minutes ago, Grayphil said:

As for the idiotic stories of him being a rampant coke head who is siphoning off the Ukrainian money is incorrect and pathetic

hahahaha Oh Phil please stop 

[Lucky Larry]

24 minutes ago, Grayphil said:

you cry about the corruptions and issues of the west but ignore completely the ones who do it by a magnitude of scale.

Putins corruption has little effect on me and is a matter for Russians to deal with , the West however is as its my taxes they are using for their war games and to enrich themselves with . Putin is a bad man there you go , happy now ? 

[Quiet Guy]

2 hours ago, Grayphil said:

Zelensky was elected on an anti corruption mandate, he said that he would seek closer ties with the EU and NATO and increase defence spending from about 3% to around 5% if I remember correctly.

He has made huge strides in tackling corruption, given Covid and the Russian invasion I think he has done a bloody amazing job.

I don't think there are many politicians in the UK or the west that could come close to his levels of competence

"A charitable view of Zelensky’s failure to end corruption or peacefully settle the Donbas conflict might be that he had little room to maneuver in either case. Corruption is deeply ingrained in the structure of post-Soviet states, and the sort of negotiated peace needed to finish the civil war could have compromised the country’s sovereignty to an extent that would have been anathema to large numbers of Ukrainians, some of whom had guns and a propensity to use them. Addressing these issues would have posed political and perhaps even personal risks. But Zelensky did have opportunities—and, for a time, an overwhelming political mandate—to do so. That he folded so swiftly contradicts his well-managed image of integrity and courage; more importantly, his failures of foresight and fortitude meant that Ukraine squandered its chance to avoid the current conflict. Indeed, if Zelensky could have stood down his domestic opponents, particularly in the honeymoon period after his 2019 victory, perhaps he would not have had to stand up to the Russians in February 2022."

https://harpers.org/archive/2023/10/the-tragedy-of-volodymyr-zelensky/

Finding the way to a settlement of the Donbas conflict was never going to be easy but if the ex-comedian Ukrainian leader failed, we should not be caling him "amazing".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbtom7rXz3o

 

[70PC]

11 hours ago, Fishfinger said:

Yes if the man deliberately goaded the bear beforehand....

11 hours ago, Lucky Larry said:

You are if you hand him the gun to shoot at the bear while the bear is minding its own business

If you are saying that lending support to an invaded country amounts to goading, I don't agree for obvious reasons. It has been a long time since the Russian bear minded its own business.

[Staffsknot]

I see its been business as usual over the long weekend on here...

[pig]

14 hours ago, Lucky Larry said:

You are if you hand him the gun to shoot at the bear while the bear is minding its own business

Russia was "minding its own business"  

[Lucky Larry]

4 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

I see its been business as usual over the long weekend on here...

I see you still haven't posted the video of the plane hitting the Pentagon have you been busy hunting for WMDs? 🤡

[Lucky Larry]

5 hours ago, 70PC said:

If you are saying that lending support to an invaded country amounts to goading, I don't agree for obvious reasons. It has been a long time since the Russian bear minded its own business.

Goading is when you organise a coup of a foreign state overthrow the elected Govt then supply them with weapons to attack the Russian speaking community in that country then declare your intention to increase the NATO Empire by admitting that country that Russia has warned would be crossing a red line. The US and UK have invaded more countries and overthrown more foreign Govts than the rest of the World combined , maybe it's time they minded their own business . 

[70PC]

16 minutes ago, Lucky Larry said:

Goading is when you organise a coup of a foreign state overthrow the elected Govt then supply them with weapons to attack the Russian speaking community in that country then declare your intention to increase the NATO Empire by admitting that country that Russia has warned would be crossing a red line. The US and UK have invaded more countries and overthrown more foreign Govts than the rest of the World combined , maybe it's time they minded their own business . 

Come on Lucky. Nato's not an empire. The US and UK don't exactly have clean records but their reasons are not as egregious as Putin's. Nor do they run around threatening nuclear if anyone gets in the way of their plundering. As for taking out Yanukovych, motives and parties behind this is a matter of debate. 

"In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests known as "Euromaidan" began in response to President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia." 

[pig]

1 hour ago, Lucky Larry said:

Goading is when you organise a coup of a foreign state overthrow the elected Govt then supply them with weapons to attack the Russian speaking community in that country then declare your intention to increase the NATO Empire by admitting that country that Russia has warned would be crossing a red line. The US and UK have invaded more countries and overthrown more foreign Govts than the rest of the World combined , maybe it's time they minded their own business . 

👆

Perfect exemplar of Russian upside-down speak

Russia attempts a coup of a foreign state (multiple)*

Supplies weapons and little green men

declares it always part of Russian Empire, proceeds to genocide it

threatens the RoW with nuclear willy-waving

 

* wasn't Russia guv' - it was Nuland or somefink ! 

* all I woz doin was mindin' me own business. Honest !

 

[bumble bee]

1 hour ago, 70PC said:

Come on Lucky. Nato's not an empire. The US and UK don't exactly have clean records but their reasons are not as egregious as Putin's. Nor do they run around threatening nuclear if anyone gets in the way of their plundering. As for taking out Yanukovych, motives and parties behind this is a matter of debate. 

"In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests known as "Euromaidan" began in response to President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia." 

Putin ally Patrushev says NATO is helping attacks on Russia from Ukraine

A powerful ally of President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that NATO was basically fighting Russia in Ukraine and that the U.S.-led military alliance had helped organise strikes on sovereign Russian territory.

Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev said that the 75 years of NATO history since its founding on April 4, 1949 had shown it to be a long term source of "danger, crisis and conflict. The North Atlantic Alliance is de-facto a party to the Ukrainian conflict and is actively involved in organising the shelling of Russian territories."

"Within its framework, collective decisions are being made on new arms supplies with an increase in their technical and long-range capabilities, and NATO instructors in several countries are training mercenaries and saboteurs for their participation in anti-Russian operations."

https://www.reuters.com/world/top-russian-official-says-us-dictates-nato-spending-2024-04-02/

[bumble bee]

... it's better to be safe than sorry ...

Elon Musk: Odessa will fall if Ukraine war lasts long enough

Elon Musk has predicted that Russia will gain more territory the longer the Ukraine war goes on, warning that a protracted war will lead to the fall of Odessa as well.

“The longer the war goes on, the more territory Russia will gain until they hit the Dnepr, which is tough to overcome,” Musk wrote in a post on his X platform on Saturday.

“However, if the war lasts long enough, Odessa will fall too.”

According to Musk, whether Ukraine loses all access to the Black Sea or not is the real remaining question.

He added, “I recommend a negotiated settlement before that happens.”

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/03/31/722807/Elon-Musk-Odessa-fall-Ukraine-war-lasts-long-enough

[Lucky Larry]

1 hour ago, 70PC said:

Come on Lucky. Nato's not an empire. The US and UK don't exactly have clean records but their reasons are not as egregious as Putin's. Nor do they run around threatening nuclear if anyone gets in the way of their plundering. As for taking out Yanukovych, motives and parties behind this is a matter of debate. 

"In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests known as "Euromaidan" began in response to President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia." 

NATO is the European wing of the US Empire and how can you claim they are less egregious than Putin after what they did in Iraq , Libya , Afghanistan , Syria etc  and what they are currently funding in Palestine where their israeli friends are currently discussing whether they should nuke Gaza a defenceless concentration camp of 2.3 million people where 50% are children. We are utter evil bastards and more than a match for Putin who is a rank amateur in comparison . As for the protests during Maiden these can and have been orchestrated in the past for political purpose by outside agencies .

[Lucky Larry]

1 hour ago, 70PC said:

The US and UK don't exactly have clean records but their reasons are not as egregious as Putin's.

Hiding legal advice that what they are doing is a war crime so they can carry on committing war crimes , like I said utter basturds 

 

[jonb2]

50 minutes ago, Lucky Larry said:

 

 

That's simply because it's anti-Semitic NOT to sell them arms.

Edited April 2 by jonb2

[70PC]

54 minutes ago, Lucky Larry said:

Hiding legal advice that what they are doing is a war crime so they can carry on committing war crimes , like I said utter basturds 

 

1 hour ago, bumble bee said:

... it's better to be safe than sorry ...

Elon Musk: Odessa will fall if Ukraine war lasts long enough

Elon Musk has predicted that Russia will gain more territory the longer the Ukraine war goes on, warning that a protracted war will lead to the fall of Odessa as well.

“The longer the war goes on, the more territory Russia will gain until they hit the Dnepr, which is tough to overcome,” Musk wrote in a post on his X platform on Saturday.

“However, if the war lasts long enough, Odessa will fall too.”

According to Musk, whether Ukraine loses all access to the Black Sea or not is the real remaining question.

He added, “I recommend a negotiated settlement before that happens.”

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/03/31/722807/Elon-Musk-Odessa-fall-Ukraine-war-lasts-long-enough

Lucky Larry and Bumble Bee

Stupid or bad stuff that others have done is not a defence. Someone on trial for car theft cannot plead not guilty because the judge's son also stole a car. Nor are lesser sins committed by others justification for what Putin is doing. 

[DiggerUK]

Who is right or wrong is unimportant once any war starts. It's who wins that counts. 

 There is a whole backstory to the conflict in Ukraine, a backstory that reveals to me there was ample opportunity to negotiate a peace deal that would have satisfied all parties. Now it seems certain that the Ukrainians are going to pay dearly, unless a ceasefire is agreed and peace negotiations commence.

So for those of you who enjoy feeding the Trolls, all I can ask is, what exactly are you hoping to gain by engaging with such contrarians. Stop wasting your efforts..._

[Lucky Larry]

5 minutes ago, 70PC said:

 

Lucky Larry and Bumble Bee

Stupid or bad stuff that others have done is not a defence. Someone on trial for car theft cannot plead not guilty because the judge's son also stole a car. Nor are lesser sins committed by others justification for what Putin is doing. 

I am not and never have defended Putin for his actions , I was responding to your claim that what he has done was " not as egregious" as Putin's . I think they are far far worse . I believe that a cabal of Zionists and neocons were responsible for 9/11 which started the war on terror which led to multiple countries being illegally invaded based on lies and millions of dead and injured was the result. I have posted the video of General Clark telling us all the wars were pre planned and had no justification for doing so . I have posted the link of the Project for a new American Century which shows the neocons themselves concluded that what the US needed was a " catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbour" 18 months before it occurred . Do you honestly think that Cheney , Rumsfeld and the cabal wanted this new Pearl Harbour then sat back and hoped bin Laden would deliver it ? I have posted the links that show Netanyahu sent Mossad agents to " document the event" which proves prior knowledge , I have posted the links that show a 4 yr study by Fairbanks University prove that WTC 7 did not collapse due to fire as stated . I have posted the link that showed a world renown expert in controlled demolition stated it was a controlled demolition . I have posted the link where Bill Cooper told us that a massive terrorist attack was imminent and that bin Laden would be the Patsy 7 weeks before it happened . I have posted the links of the 9/11 Commission telling us they were lied to , underfunded , restricted by time, denied evidence and set up to fail. Bush not only refused an enquiry for 441 days he refused to testify in public , have transcripts taken or to take the oath , he even refused to take the stand unless accompanied by Cheney . I have posted the only cctv released of the attack on the Pentagon which fails to show any plane , only one of the available 73 cameras was shown and it had no plane. Despite some on here claiming there is footage they have failed to provide it . I could go on ................ What kind of country murders 3000 + of its own people just to green light wars that kill , injure and displace millions more including thousands of their own military ?

Then we can look at Oct 7th  where despite warnings from Egypt security was stepped down and the festival was moved closer to the border. A Palestinian cannot pass wind within 100m of that border without the Israeli Occupation Forces analysing what they had for breakfast yet Hamas ran rampant for hours without any action being taken by the IOF for hours . When they did step in they were responsible for half the casualties that occurred . Sacrificing a few hundred Israelis to justify the total annihilation of 2.3 million people is a small price to pay for a psychopathic lunatic like Netanyahu who was under immense pressure domestically. Not only have the ICJ ruled that their actions plausibly constitute genocide , the Foreign Office Minister Lord Cameron has hidden legal advice that have warned him Israel has broken International Law and supplying them with weapons is aiding and abetting genocide . Ignoring genocide for profit is utterly shameful , we are a total disgrace . There is very little we can do to put pressure on Putin , we have a responsibility to hold our politicians to account not make excuses for them. 

[Lucky Larry]

22 minutes ago, DiggerUK said:

Who is right or wrong is unimportant once any war starts. It's who wins that counts. 

So committing a war crime to start a war is ok as long as you win ? That's a real sociopaths manifesto 

[DiggerUK]

Nobody starts a war, or engages in a war, to lose the war. Who has the moral high ground is irrelevant in such scenarios.

The backstory to this war is little known by the public. But it doesn't mean the actions taken by the NeoCons will guarantee they lose. Tyrants have won many wars before and will do so again, the good guys don't always win unfortunately. Geopolitics isn't a battle between good and evil, whoever is the most powerful wins at the end of the day.

Is that a shit deal for the meek and weak, yes. But when has reality never been a b!tch. Geronimo, the Maori and Boudicca all lost don't forget..._ 

[jonb2]

1 hour ago, DiggerUK said:

Who is right or wrong is unimportant once any war starts. It's who wins that counts. 

 There is a whole backstory to the conflict in Ukraine, a backstory that reveals to me there was ample opportunity to negotiate a peace deal that would have satisfied all parties. Now it seems certain that the Ukrainians are going to pay dearly, unless a ceasefire is agreed and peace negotiations commence.

So for those of you who enjoy feeding the Trolls, all I can ask is, what exactly are you hoping to gain by engaging with such contrarians. Stop wasting your efforts..._

It's much simpler than you make it.

Ukraine's population wanted to leave the Russian federation, just like all the other under-the-jackboot satellites did. Not surprising and obviously is still shocking to all you freedom-hating trolls here. Have you seen the fall of the Wall, and how millions celebrated freedom after nearly half a century of hell? But no, can't have that can we? Putin has run out of ways to enrich himself. Needs more preciousnesses. So he's stealing it back, bit by bit, corpse by corpse.

The end.

[jonb2]

4 hours ago, pig said:

👆

Perfect exemplar of Russian upside-down speak

Russia attempts a coup of a foreign state (multiple)*

Supplies weapons and little green men

declares it always part of Russian Empire, proceeds to genocide it

threatens the RoW with nuclear willy-waving

 

* wasn't Russia guv' - it was Nuland or somefink ! 

* all I woz doin was mindin' me own business. Honest !

 

In a nutshell - yes! But the Putin dick suckers will argue it's much more complicated than this. The same felation fans also ignore the people most affected - those who matter most and the aggrieved party - the Ukrainians.

PUT THEM BACK IN PUTIN'S PRISON THEY SAY.

[Lucky Larry]

12 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

PUT THEM BACK IN PUTIN'S PRISON THEY SAY.

Haven't noticed anyone saying that , I have noticed people calling for a peace deal though and I have noticed people screaming for this war to continue leading to the death of even more Ukrainians . Yet those calling for peace are condemned while those on here calling for more death are seen as righteous , strange World isn't it .