Will Russia invade Ukraine and what happens if it escalates with NATO/US getting involved

[jonb2]

4 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

I see none of that. They have halted at Donbas, because thats really all they are interested in. I dont think they will even make attempts at going further, they are now involved in the areas they want to be involved in and thats that.

Did you think the huge convoys of military vehicles heading for Kiev was a hallucination?

[Night Tripper]

7 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Did you think the huge convoys of military vehicles heading for Kiev was a hallucination?

I think their actions since that point and presently suggest they werent particularly serious about taking Kiev.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Night Tripper

[Staffsknot]

11 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

I see none of that. They have halted at Donbas, because thats really all they are interested in. I dont think they will even make attempts at going further, they are now involved in the areas they want to be involved in and thats that.

Errrm unless the Donbas is beig talked about with Yank level geopgraphic accuracy no they aren't. Unless of course you are now claiming Donbas extends to the Dnipro river and towards Kherson...

[Staffsknot]

17 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

Given the way Z. was thrown under the bus yesterday by NATO that would actually be the most sensible option. Unlikely to be allowed by the US/NATO command centre but maybe worth a shot on his part.

Nobody was thrown under a bus except in Russia's desperate spin - that's why the Russians have been moaning about the talk of security guarantees and more arms.

[jonb2]

17 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

I think their actions since that point and presently suggest they werent particularly serious about taking Kiev.

Oh, I see. It was just a jaunt and nothing to see.

It wasn't a move to crush the government of of UA and assassinate Zelensky, just a picnic with a few war crimes on the way to pass the time.

Do you believe in fairies and leprechauns too?

[Night Tripper]

7 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Oh, I see. It was just a jaunt and nothing to see.

It wasn't a move to crush the government of of UA and assassinate Zelensky, just a picnic with a few war crimes on the way to pass the time.

Do you believe in fairies and leprechauns too?

I’m talking about their objectives now not something that happened for a few days nearly 2 years ago 

I believe it has no bearing on their considerations now

Edited July 12, 2023 by Night Tripper

[Peter Hun]

5 hours ago, Night Tripper said:

My answer was it depends on what Russias victory conditions are.

for example can they retain the areas they presently control indefinitely - personally I would say yes to that.

Yet Russia has been retreating for the past 450 days.

[Peter Hun]

43 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

I think their actions since that point and presently suggest they werent particularly serious about taking Kiev.

They just went there to die and hand over 500 tanks to Ukraine.

Nort serious to have the most prestigious tank brigade complely obliterated. Nope.

[Night Tripper]

1 minute ago, Peter Hun said:

Yet Russia has been retreating for the past 450 days.

Can’t be bothered with this tbh. The territorial changes have been minimal for months 

[Night Tripper]

2 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

They just went there to die and hand over 500 tanks to Ukraine.

Nort serious to have the most prestigious tank brigade complely obliterated. Nope.

I said since that point or can’t you read ? Or I should say they aren’t interested now, the claim I was replying to was they wanted to seize other territory/lands going forward. They’ve concentrated on the areas they said they set out to defend namely Donbas 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Night Tripper

[Peter Hun]

2 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

Can’t be bothered with this tbh. The territorial changes have been minimal for months 

Why don't you f off then, repeating the same B S that Russia cannot lose because 'I said so' is tedious as well as ridiculous.

Let the war take it course, we'll send more and more weapons until Russia is defeated and Russia will keep fighting.

[pig]

 

57 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

I see none of that. They have halted at Donbas, because thats really all they are interested in. I dont think they will even make attempts at going further, they are now involved in the areas they want to be involved in and thats that.

Ah you missed out what happened last year. To everybody's shock and amazement Russia was beaten back into east Ukraine

Since then they have been trying to murder civilians, destroy civilian infrastructure across the country and kidnap children + general genocidal activities.

They had a poor winter offensive, effectively culminating in them shooting at eachother en route to an apparent coup in Moscow and currently appear under severe strain with Ukraines counter-offensive.

Best thing for their objective would be a cease-fire for period to allow them to recover, rebuild, regroup and ideally the West to cease arming Ukraine, before trying to take the rest of Ukraine.

But I don't think Ukraine wants that to happen.

 

[Night Tripper]

9 minutes ago, pig said:

 

Ah you missed out what happened last year. To everybody's shock and amazement Russia was beaten back into east Ukraine

Since then they have been trying to murder civilians, destroy civilian infrastructure across the country and kidnap children + general genocidal activities.

They had a poor winter offensive, effectively culminating in them shooting at eachother en route to an apparent coup in Moscow and currently appear under severe strain with Ukraines counter-offensive.

Best thing for their objective would be a cease-fire for period to allow them to recover, rebuild, regroup and ideally the West to cease arming Ukraine, before trying to take the rest of Ukraine.

But I don't think Ukraine wants that to happen.

 

You obviously missed Zelensky in tears yesterday when he realised he’d been thrown to the absolute wolves by his backers 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Night Tripper

[pig]

1 minute ago, Night Tripper said:

You obviously missed Zelensky in tears yesterday when he realised he’d been thrown to the absolute wolves by his backers 

Oh really ?

Not meaning to rain on your parade but do you any idea what actually happened yesterday ?

 

[Peter Hun]

17 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

Can’t be bothered with this tbh. The territorial changes have been minimal for months 

You think the West is going to give and surrender?

Isn't going to.happen. The Cold War went on for decades. We have massively increased our weapons production and over the next few years the Ukrainians will finish development of their long range missiles and drones.

Then, along with the ever increasing weapons supplies they, can bombard the occupation troops in Ukrainian and destroy the Russian Oil-gas-military industry.

Might take another 5 to 10 years, but probably won't. Either way NATO is investing for a long war.

[Peter Hun]

27 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

You obviously missed Zelensky in tears yesterday when he realised he’d been thrown to the absolute wolves by his backers 

Yeah because that's a Russian fantasy. Crying equals losing. Lol.

Nobody can join NATO while fighting a war, the war has to be won first. That's always been the case and Ukraine knew that.

[satsuma]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66171638

Someone said they got this Russian after realising that bombing the local donut shop was sure to work

[Staffsknot]

58 minutes ago, Night Tripper said:

You obviously missed Zelensky in tears yesterday when he realised he’d been thrown to the absolute wolves by his backers 

Can you produce evidence of this or was it done with finger puppets?

[MarkG]

3 hours ago, jonb2 said:

It wasn't a move to crush the government of of UA and assassinate Zelensky, just a picnic with a few war crimes on the way to pass the time.

It was a move to force Ukraine to the negotiating table.

Which it did.

Then Boris came along and told Zelensky not to make a peace agreement which would have kept Ukraine mostly intact and kept hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian men alive and not wounded by war.

Russia agreed to withdraw its troops from around Kiev as a sign of good faith during the negotiations, and to not kill Zelensky (though he's such an incompetent leader they have no reason to kill him and let someone competent replace him). Instead of making peace, NATO shrieked "Look! Russia so weak! Russia retreat from scary Ukraine army!" and started creating fake war crimes so now Ukraine is in pieces and those hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian men are dead or wounded for no good reason.

And since NATO is continuing to push for bringing Ukraine in, either Ukraine will surrender and agree never to join NATO or Russia will completely destroy Ukraine.

I thought it was going to be the latter, but now Biden is admitting that the US is out of artillery ammo it's possible we might actually see a negotiated end.

Edited July 12, 2023 by MarkG

[MarkG]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

We have massively increased our weapons production and over the next few years the Ukrainians will finish development of their long range missiles and drones.

Russia already had greater weapons production capabilities than NATO, has ramped up production since 2021, and is now reactivating mothballed Soviet weapons production plants. 

Where are all the mothballed Cold War weapons plants in the West? Where do you plan to get the power to run them when we're now allowed to buy energy from Russia and supposed to destroy our energy infrastructure because Global Warming? Where will the raw materials come from? Where will the tools come from?

The 'elite' have spent forty years deindustrializing the West. Now suddenly they want to reindustrialize.

Not gonna happen.

[Peter Hun]

A few factories will ship several million 155mm shells to Ukraine next year. Poland alone is getting nearly 2000 tanks,650 Himars.  Guess where they will end up?

The West has 100 times Russian production capacity. Doesn't have engineers, Doesn't have even 10% of the CNC's it needed before the war.

 

 

[Peter Hun]

6 hours ago, MarkG said:

Which it did.

Then Boris came along and told Zelensky

Nope, that never happened.

Of course you fascist have no concept of a country and its leadership being anything but pawns to The Leader.

[DiggerUK]

I feel Ukraine will see the NATO conference as a bit of a non event. Over my bagel, coffee and honeyed yoghurt, this story is about all that needs to be said.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-749829
 

"Looks like the reports that the Wagner commanders and their troops were balking at integrating into the Russian Army were not true"    The accompanying video reiterates the position I support (55 minutes) but the shorter commentary is some more information on the Wagner story..._
https://sonar21.com/will-biden-start-ww-iii-a-chat-with-dmitri-simes-jr/

 

[Staffsknot]

8 minutes ago, DiggerUK said:

I feel Ukraine will see the NATO conference as a bit of a non event. Over my bagel, coffee and honeyed yoghurt, this story is about all that needs to be said.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-749829
 

"Looks like the reports that the Wagner commanders and their troops were balking at integrating into the Russian Army were not true"    The accompanying video reiterates the position I support (55 minutes) but the shorter commentary is some more information on the Wagner story..._
https://sonar21.com/will-biden-start-ww-iii-a-chat-with-dmitri-simes-jr/

 

Errm really the thing Prigozhin kicked off about in all his rants and his claims 'they are trying to destroy us' when the contracts were pushed at them post Bakhmut...

The fact they are handing over lots of weapons and a load of Wagner fighters sad no to joining the military and being under its direct command.

All this apparently didn't happen. Is there a parallel universe where the events didn't happen, JFK decided to use the sunroof and Putin made better decisions than he has...

[70PC]

46 minutes ago, DiggerUK said:

 

I feel Ukraine will see the NATO conference as a bit of a non event. Over my bagel, coffee and honeyed yoghurt, this story is about all that needs to be said.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-749829
 

"Looks like the reports that the Wagner commanders and their troops were balking at integrating into the Russian Army were not true"    The accompanying video reiterates the position I support (55 minutes) but the shorter commentary is some more information on the Wagner story..._
https://sonar21.com/will-biden-start-ww-iii-a-chat-with-dmitri-simes-jr/

 

The first link is from the Jerusalem post which includes: It [the Russian Ministry] said NATO was continually lowering the threshold for the use of force, escalating political and military tensions.

The second link is a blog called a Son of the New American Revolution. Larry C Johnson is ready to assist you and your family in becoming a knowledgeable, safe and skilled owner of a firearm. 

I would be cautious about building a case using comments from the Russian ministry or a blog where the guy teaches families how to use weapons.