Peter Hun Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, pig said: Now we have hindsight theres been a long run up to this, its uncertain exactly what has gone on but crunch point may have been the demand for Wagner soldiers to sign up to the Russian military. Then plan was to dissolve Wagner then its leader. Obviously he wasn't going to ay that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, 70PC said: They will need a day or two to come up with new scripts. Russian media and trolls uncertain of the story to push. How about a football stadium instead.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, Riedquat said: That would be my guess too. Not sure if I believe the missile attack story (not that I'm all that keen on belieivng Russian denials either, but I suppose they must occasionally be right by coincidence). I think this sort of situation was inevitable in any circumstance other than a fairly easy Russian victory in Ukraine. Quite how it'll end, no idea, not even whether it'll be positive or negative for Ukraine and the other civilised parts of the world. Well, Putin will be permanently damaged by this. Prigozhin just blew up a mountain of Russian propaganda and trolls  - that was extraordinary in itself. Was the biggest F*** Y** possible, except for the fact he initially gave Putin a chance. Apparently something of a desperate performance by Putin on TV today. For things to have descended to that level, the missile attack story isn't that out of place. Apparently Wagner troops being welcomed by local population while Russian helicopters attack Wagner troops.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 "Wagner troops 'may reach Moscow in hours' as chief claims 'half Russian army to join him' Wagner mercenaries may be able to reach Moscow in a matter of hours, as Vladimir Putin's regime appears to be on the brink of implosion after a seismic turn of events in Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin, the warlord in command of the Wagner Group, has taken the city of Rostov-on-Don and has passed through Voronezh, which is en route to Moscow. A video obtained by Express.co.uk shows lorries carrying Wagner tanks in the Lipetsk area, which is just north of Voronezh." https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1784063/wagner-troops-moscow-hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) This is a great day for Russia. A chance for a re-set. Would not be at all surprised if the people supported Wagner. The danger here is that what happens afterwards. Edited June 24, 2023 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depressedpedro Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, IMHAL said: This is a great day for Russia. A chance for a re-set. Would not be at all surprised if the people supported Wagner. The danger here is that what happens afterwards. Yeah If Wagnar do become de facto leaders it still is a huge problem for the Ukraine. Best thing from a Ukraian stance is the situation deteriorates that Russia needs to pull back military and it becomes a legit civil war. @rollover @zugzwangwhat are your thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, IMHAL said: This is a great day for Russia. A chance for a re-set. Would not be at all surprised if the people supported Wagner. The danger here is that what happens afterwards. Yeah, Prigozhin is as much of a nasty piece of work as they come, so it could end rather badly, but it's possible that internal Russian issues are the least bad outcome (the others being Russian victory in Ukraine or Russian defeat, which I think stands quite a high chance of lashing out in desperation - a risk that needs to be accepted nevertheless, mind you). Whilst he's definitely something of a psychopath I do get the impression of also being a bit more grounded than Putin is these days. The ideal would be them both weakening each other to the point more reasonable people kick them both out. It might also all blow over fairly quickly with Prigozhin's head on a spike, but even if that happens it'll be quite a dent in Putin's reputation within Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Depressedpedro said: Yeah If Wagnar do become de facto leaders it still is a huge problem for the Ukraine. Best thing from a Ukraian stance is the situation deteriorates that Russia needs to pull back military and it becomes a legit civil war. Would Wagner be interested in carrying on in Ukraine? They'll have the whole of Russia to loot first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobsy Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 30 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Russian media and trolls uncertain of the story to push. How about a football stadium instead.  Followed by Swan Lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobsy Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Depressedpedro said: @rollover @zugzwangwhat are your thoughts on this? They are awaiting instructions from their respective HQs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, IMHAL said: This is a great day for Russia. A chance for a re-set. Would not be at all surprised if the people supported Wagner. The danger here is that what happens afterwards. Prigozhin is a thug but perhaps a more pragmatic one. The Russians have blocked their own opportunities for an advance. What is the point of them staying there with a superior army slowly taking chunks out of them.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Yeah, Prigozhin is as much of a nasty piece of work as they come, so it could end rather badly, but it's possible that internal Russian issues are the least bad outcome (the others being Russian victory in Ukraine or Russian defeat, which I think stands quite a high chance of lashing out in desperation - a risk that needs to be accepted nevertheless, mind you). Whilst he's definitely something of a psychopath I do get the impression of also being a bit more grounded than Putin is these days. The ideal would be them both weakening each other to the point more reasonable people kick them both out. It might also all blow over fairly quickly with Prigozhin's head on a spike, but even if that happens it'll be quite a dent in Putin's reputation within Russia. He is as nasty as they come, but he has called out the war in Ukraine as a farce. I can't see him getting very far in his attempt to 'take Moscow' but the point here is that the war has come to Russia, that Kremlin propaganda has been punctured and that Russia is now fighting on a front in it's own country. The Kremlin can't do their usual and raze cities to the ground, killing their own civillians in the process etc. Mind you, they still might. It's a really big headache for Putin and a major distraction. Also, Putin will be very fearfull if a significant proportion of people takes Wagners side. It's great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 "Top Russian officials ‘evacuated from Moscow’ as Wagner closes in on capital" https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1783991/russia-live-moscow-alert-coup-putin-prigozhin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Kadyrov has been tasked with stopping Wagner group before they get to Moscow Oh my days . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Would Wagner be interested in carrying on in Ukraine? They'll have the whole of Russia to loot first. Absolutley. I can see the head of Wagner eyeing up the riches of Russia. He doesn't need to work his butt off in some shithole when he can have what Putin has from the confort of his home turf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Si1 said: Kadyrov has been tasked with stopping Wagner group before they get to Moscow Oh my days . Next stop - Kadyrov and Wagner join forces??? and Putin hiding in a sewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Blobsy said: They are awaiting instructions from their respective HQs. If I was @rollover I'd leave my job and go and make sure my family were ok, stock up, make sure the car's full of petrol etc. I wouldn't be at my paid troll farm job waiting to take a bullet to the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 One thing for sure - Ukrainian forces will not be targetting Wagner forces when they are doing such a sterling job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Si1 said: If I was @rollover I'd leave my job and go and make sure my family were ok, stock up, make sure the car's full of petrol etc. I wouldn't be at my paid troll farm job waiting to take a bullet to the head. Trollover must be in a bit of a bind. Does he work for the troll farm owned by Wagner or for the Kremlin?? Oh my days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, IMHAL said: One thing for sure - Ukrainian forces will not be targetting Wagner forces when they are doing such a sterling job. So true! Putin's attempt to take Ukraine in 3 days didn't work out. Will Prigozhin take Moscow in one day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguel Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Well if it really kicks off I can't see the Russian troops in Ukraine wanting to hang around in a trench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Nuclear war has become much more probable. Russia can neither lose against Wagner nor against Ukraine. If resources are no longer sufficient, nuclear weapons will be used. Since they are (presumably) a no-go within Russia, they would be used to annihilate Ukrainian forces in Western Ukraine. Russian troops could then be largely withdrawn to stabilize situation in the interior without the fear of any Ukainian offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, miguel said: Well if it really kicks off I can't see the Russian troops in Ukraine wanting to hang around in a trench. Wagner now have their supply lines if I'm not mistaken. Who's getting all the ammo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 "Russian soldiers are frantically blocking main roads heading into Moscow, reports have shown. Wagner Group forces appear to be travelling northwards towards the capital, causing panic in the Russian capital, which has already been heavily fortified with military equipment and personnel. Traffic has been blocked on three bridges across the Oka River - on the M-4 Don, M-5 Ural and M-2 Krym highways." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Night Tripper said: Nuclear war has become much more probable. Russia can neither lose against Wagner nor against Ukraine. If resources are no longer sufficient, nuclear weapons will be used. Since they are (presumably) a no-go within Russia, they would be used to annihilate Ukrainian forces in Western Ukraine. Russian troops could then be largely withdrawn to stabilize situation in the interior without the fear of any Ukainian offensive. Nuclear bombs on Moscow would not go down well. At times like this badly led men on the front have been known to turn on their leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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