Stamp Duty Three Month Extension & CGT Hike

[wighty]

Just now, Unmoderated said:

Yeah, we should pay off the national debt now and get someone without any background in real world finance running the Treasury. 

Banks love debt - that's how they make their money, haha.

[Unmoderated]

7 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Land Value Tax, Amazon Tax, Tobin Tax.

Seems fair but if I'm paying a chunk of change now on my house I'd like a reduction in income tax please. 

[Unmoderated]

1 minute ago, wighty said:

Banks love debt - that's how they make their money, haha.

yup, it's also quite literally how money is made. 

[wighty]

1 minute ago, Unmoderated said:

Did it?

IIRC it was George Osbornes time possibly. It was the Tory comeback to labour wanting an extra 5% on the 45% at one election.

[Unmoderated]

3 minutes ago, wighty said:

IIRC it was George Osbornes time possibly. It was the Tory comeback to labour wanting an extra 5% on the 45% at one election.

Labour placed a 50% additional rate tax (in the last days of the Brown administration - cheap political nonsense shot) which was later cut by the conservative government to 45%. I believe they did make refence to the Laffer Curve as justification though I don't think we ever saw the data on it. in April 2009 Darling announced the tax free allowance abatement (this is truly, truly stupid and goes against pretty much every tax principal) so that for earnings between £100k to £125k you pay a marginal rate of 60%.

Personally I'm thinking Singapore is the way to go for a little while. I'd save a fortune in tax as a working man. Or property development because this is tax free and is much more interesting than working... just need to get the cash together. 

My theory on house prices (for what it's worth) is that they're so high to ensure people have to work hard and pay a lot of income tax in order to afford them and then continue paying income tax in order to pay off the mortgage. Cash cows to be milked by the state. 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

8 minutes ago, wighty said:

Banks love debt - that's how they make their money, haha.

That's why we have insane house prices.  More debt = more profit

The country is being run for the banks.  Not just this country of course but many of them now, just look at home many ex-bankers are now in positions of real power.  Look at Theresa May and her husband, now Sunak, the last 3/4 chairmen of the BBC.

When they were bailed out in 2008 people should have smelled a rat and protested en-masse.

IIRC the occupy lot were outside the BoE for weeks but gained little support.  

These are very worrying times.  These people seem to be psychopaths where nothing will stop them forcing debt onto people and when that hits a ceiling onto governments who will then force the debt onto several generations.

There is no good end to any of this and it's going to get worse, then much worse.

[captainb]

34 minutes ago, wighty said:

The statement was that CGT was to be 45%. No caveats, conditions or exclusions. Not just restricted to retail investors.

What do you think would happen if he starts pissing around with CGT on that 95% you mention?.

Ah right.. So now he's changing the rate and the whole scope of cgt as well!! 

Well there is nothing to suggest whatsoever that the scope will change as well as the rate and it would be madness to. 

However there is quite a lot to suggest the rate already charged on assets will increase. That makes sense. 

[wighty]

3 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

That's why we have insane house prices.  More debt = more profit

The country is being run for the banks.  Not just this country of course but many of them now, just look at home many ex-bankers are now in positions of real power.  Look at Theresa May and her husband, now Sunak, the last 3/4 chairmen of the BBC.

When they were bailed out in 2008 people should have smelled a rat and protested en-masse.

IIRC the occupy lot were outside the BoE for weeks but gained little support.  

These are very worrying times.  These people seem to be psychopaths where nothing will stop them forcing debt onto people and when that hits a ceiling onto governments who will then force the debt onto several generations.

There is no good end to any of this and it's going to get worse, then much worse.

That's why they hate bitcoin.

I'll get my coat.

[wighty]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

Ah right.. So now he's changing the rate and the whole scope of cgt as well!! 

Well there is nothing to suggest whatsoever that the scope will change as well as the rate and it would be madness to. 

However there is quite a lot to suggest the rate already charged on assets will increase. That makes sense. 

exactly!

[Unmoderated]

1 minute ago, wighty said:

That's why they hate bitcoin.

I'll get my coat.

🙄

[captainb]

Just now, wighty said:

exactly!

Haha I also think a Frank conversation with the public about how everyone not just the 5% will need to pay more to make a material dent will be needed 

Second home owners are the easiest target in the world though. Voting Labour won't help them. There's not that many of them. And everyone else pretty much thinks they are sitting on an "unearned gain" which makes taxation of it deemed a good thing for the masses. 

Easiest tax rise going. 

[Unmoderated]

2 minutes ago, captainb said:

Ah right.. So now he's changing the rate and the whole scope of cgt as well!! 

Well there is nothing to suggest whatsoever that the scope will change as well as the rate and it would be madness to. 

However there is quite a lot to suggest the rate already charged on assets will increase. That makes sense. 

The scope isn't changing.... CGT isn't paid twice is it!? Think about it.... if a company invests your money on your behalf and makes a capital gain is it the institution's (no) or the customer's (yes). Those institutions make their money not from capital gains but from a fee set as a % of assets under management.

It's really simple, perhaps I'm not explaining it clearly enough? 

[Unmoderated]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

Haha I also think a Frank conversation with the public about how everyone not just the 5% will need to pay more to make a material dent will be needed 

Second home owners are the easiest target in the world though. Voting Labour won't help them. There's not that many of them. And everyone else pretty much thinks they are sitting on an "unearned gain" which makes taxation of it deemed a good thing for the masses. 

Easiest tax rise going. 

I don't think many will vote against that. Especially when they see how much a holiday let in the UK is going to be this year. 

[wighty]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

Haha I also think a Frank conversation with the public about how everyone not just the 5% will need to pay more to make a material dent will be needed 

Second home owners are the easiest target in the world though. Voting Labour won't help them. There's not that many of them. And everyone else pretty much thinks they are sitting on an "unearned gain" which makes taxation of it deemed a good thing for the masses. 

Easiest tax rise going. 

I'd go for that, but HMRC seem to be pretty reluctant to aggressively tax on 2nd home capital gain and rental income.

[wighty]

2 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

The scope isn't changing.... CGT isn't paid twice is it!? Think about it.... if a company invests your money on your behalf and makes a capital gain is it the institution's (no) or the customer's (yes). Those institutions make their money not from capital gains but from a fee set as a % of assets under management.

It's really simple, perhaps I'm not explaining it clearly enough? 

You know full well that it's what these sneaky politicians DON'T say that is what's important.

 

[captainb]

Just now, Unmoderated said:

The scope isn't changing.... CGT isn't paid twice is it!? Think about it.... if a company invests your money on your behalf and makes a capital gain is it the institution's (no) or the customer's (yes). Those institutions make their money not from capital gains but from a fee set as a % of assets under management.

It's really simple, perhaps I'm not explaining it clearly enough? 

Yep exactly. It's taxed on exit in the form of pensions paid to people aged 55+ for pension funds. 

For market makers e. g banks and trading houses the profit on the gain through trading is taxed through corporation tax. 

Insurance companies again outside the scope as they are covering risk on other side of the balance sheet. 

Isa or sipp outside of scope as well. 

Small company investors typically through a VCT or EIS or SEIS. Again all outside of scope of CGT or heavily reduced rate. 

Changing the CGT rate would have naff all impact on the markets for shares. For property and art etc it would.. 

[Unmoderated]

2 minutes ago, wighty said:

You know full well that it's what these sneaky politicians DON'T say that is what's important.

 

Amen to that. 

[Unmoderated]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

Yep exactly. It's taxed on exit in the form of pensions paid to people aged 55+ for pension funds. 

For market makers e. g banks and trading houses the profit on the gain through trading is taxed through corporation tax. 

Insurance companies again outside the scope as they are covering risk on other side of the balance sheet. 

Isa or sipp outside of scope as well. 

Small company investors typically through a VCT or EIS or SEIS. Again all outside of scope of CGT or heavily reduced rate. 

Changing the CGT rate would have naff all impact on the markets for shares. For property and art etc it would.. 

Exactly my original point ( I think ) which is it wouldn't cause a crash so no need to be fearful of introducing it. Equalise Corporation tax too. Why not?

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

3 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

There is no good end to any of this and it's going to get worse, then much worse.

Hopefully blood will run, and lives lost.

It is heartening that the Government can’t control everything, but they will try anything to keep HPI to infinity and the envelopes coming.

[Unmoderated]

2 minutes ago, “Nasty Piece of work” said:

Hopefully blood will run, and lives lost.

It is heartening that the Government can’t control everything, but they will try anything to keep HPI to infinity and the envelopes coming.

Yeah let's start a war. That'll collapse prices and show 'em!

I'd take HPI over death FFS. 

[Unmoderated]

18 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

There is no good end to any of this and it's going to get worse, then much worse.

The best ending is your capitulation. 

[captainb]

2 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

Exactly my original point ( I think ) which is it wouldn't cause a crash so no need to be fearful of introducing it. Equalise Corporation tax too. Why not?

Corp tax is harder as its effectively double taxation. 

I.e I own a company that pays Corp tax o profits as a seperate legal entity (taxed once) then when I pay a divi to myself from post tax profits  I'm taxed (second tax event) 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

11 hours ago, HovelinHove said:

May be a few HODLERs with clenched buttocks this morning. 45%...nasty. Tiny violin.

Much salt.

[zugzwang]

24 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Having or wanting to borrow ?

It seems off to me that we have an ex-GS banker getting the country into more and more debt.

Worse case we have a ponzi scam economy right now which could unravel pretty quickly.

Private sector debt rose to an all-time high (>190% of GDP) last year. Not even Gordie and his pals at RBS could manage that.

So, a ponzi scam economy is what we still have. Now and for the forseeable future. Kept upright only with external support from the Treasury or the BoE, some £400-500bn of additional public debt each and every parliament.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

4 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Private sector debt rose to an all-time high (>190% of GDP) last year. Not even Gordie and his pals at RBS could manage that.

So, a ponzi scam economy is what we still have. Now and for the forseeable future. Kept upright only with external support from the Treasury or the BoE, some £400-500bn of additional public debt each and every parliament.

Meaning....we all get poorer as the suck every penny from us to keep it going.

Eventually it will collapse.

It wont be this year, it wont be next, but it will collapse, it's unstoppable now.