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Stamp Duty Three Month Extension & CGT Hike


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6 hours ago, wighty said:

To the argument it will detract entrepreneurs i don't buy it. Many won't risk buying shares if you lose 45% of the profit.

Most don't do it for the money. Of course they do. Do you think BTLers do it for fun?.

 

If he meddles too much with CGT, the stock market will crash.

Crash the stock market? You what? How many shareholders are actually liable for CGT

Insurance companies.. Nope

Pension funds.. Nope

Banks.. Nope

Any foreign national or company.. Nope

Any individual holding shares in a SIPP or ISA

So we are at 95%+ of holders already. 

It has an impact on some wealthy people looking to invest more than the 20k ISA allowance outside the scope that is hardly your average shareholder of barclays

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1 hour ago, wighty said:

10% - 28% - 45% - 60%?.  At what point would you stop investing?. Maybe you'd swallow 45%. Fair enough, but many won't. 

Risk and reward will kick in. 45% income tax is different as people dont really have a choice not to work.

It wouldnt be a surprise if the total CGT £ revenue goes down if this were the case.

 

Anyway cant see him doing anything other than a bit of tinkering.

 

Even the Labour opposition, the Labour opposition are against tax rises.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/keir-starmer-pushes-boris-johnson-to-rule-out-corporation-tax-rise/ar-BB1dYbb7?li=AAwnS0s

You can though also say the same ' at what tax rate do people stop working?'

What would people do with that cash instead of investing it? Spend it - lovely VAT plus income multiplier for the economy and all the additional taxes that would generate. Keep it in cash - cool enjoy a negative real return on savings. 

Most people do have to work but nobody has to earn over £50K (and pay 40%), but many do. Nobody has to push themselves to earn £150K (when the additional 45% rate kicks in) and nobody has to work hard enough to earn the bit between £100K and £125K where marginal effective tax rates are well over 60% as the tax free allowance is abated (this still strike me as totally insane btw - dumb AF Labour introduction demonstrating they think tax rates shouldn't be progressive).

We could do nothing at all and simply hope the recovery takes strongly and that in itself raises enough revenues to keep the debt serviced. 120K pensions sadly dying does generate some morbid saving in of itself through pension and healthcare (and social care). Nearly a billion a year in state pension and winter-fuel allowances alone.

I'd be massively in favour of removing SDLT (seriously an utterly stupid tax on moving house) and equalising CGT,IHT and Income tax. Make a cheeky £20K gain on the stock market, inherit £300K and earn £100K that year. You're taxed at the same rate on it all regardless. 

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4 minutes ago, captainb said:

Crash the stock market? You what? How many shareholders are actually liable for CGT

Insurance companies.. Nope

Pension funds.. Nope

Banks.. Nope

Any foreign national or company.. Nope

Any individual holding shares in a SIPP or ISA

So we are at 95%+ of holders already. 

It has an impact on some wealthy people looking to invest more than the 20k ISA allowance outside the scope that is hardly your average shareholder of barclays

Exactly!

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6 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

You can though also say the same ' at what tax rate do people stop working?'

What would people do with that cash instead of investing it? Spend it - lovely VAT plus income multiplier for the economy and all the additional taxes that would generate. Keep it in cash - cool enjoy a negative real return on savings. 

Most people do have to work but nobody has to earn over £50K (and pay 40%), but many do. Nobody has to push themselves to earn £150K (when the additional 45% rate kicks in) and nobody has to work hard enough to earn the bit between £100K and £125K where marginal effective tax rates are well over 60% as the tax free allowance is abated (this still strike me as totally insane btw - dumb AF Labour introduction demonstrating they think tax rates shouldn't be progressive).

We could do nothing at all and simply hope the recovery takes strongly and that in itself raises enough revenues to keep the debt serviced. 120K pensions sadly dying does generate some morbid saving in of itself through pension and healthcare (and social care). Nearly a billion a year in state pension and winter-fuel allowances alone.

I'd be massively in favour of removing SDLT (seriously an utterly stupid tax on moving house) and equalising CGT,IHT and Income tax. Make a cheeky £20K gain on the stock market, inherit £300K and earn £100K that year. You're taxed at the same rate on it all regardless. 

Quite. And while we are at it gtet ridof inheritance trusts in tax equalisation. 

If Joe public has to pay IHT on his mother's estate within 9 months so should the bloomin Duke of Westminster 

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1 hour ago, captainb said:

Crash the stock market? You what? How many shareholders are actually liable for CGT

Insurance companies.. Nope

Pension funds.. Nope

Banks.. Nope

Any foreign national or company.. Nope

Any individual holding shares in a SIPP or ISA

So we are at 95%+ of holders already. 

It has an impact on some wealthy people looking to invest more than the 20k ISA allowance outside the scope that is hardly your average shareholder of barclays

The statement was that CGT was to be 45%. No caveats, conditions or exclusions. Not just restricted to retail investors.

What do you think would happen if he starts pissing around with CGT on that 95% you mention?.

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1 hour ago, Unmoderated said:

You can though also say the same ' at what tax rate do people stop working?'

What would people do with that cash instead of investing it? Spend it - lovely VAT plus income multiplier for the economy and all the additional taxes that would generate. Keep it in cash - cool enjoy a negative real return on savings. 

Most people do have to work but nobody has to earn over £50K (and pay 40%), but many do. Nobody has to push themselves to earn £150K (when the additional 45% rate kicks in) and nobody has to work hard enough to earn the bit between £100K and £125K where marginal effective tax rates are well over 60% as the tax free allowance is abated (this still strike me as totally insane btw - dumb AF Labour introduction demonstrating they think tax rates shouldn't be progressive).

We could do nothing at all and simply hope the recovery takes strongly and that in itself raises enough revenues to keep the debt serviced. 120K pensions sadly dying does generate some morbid saving in of itself through pension and healthcare (and social care). Nearly a billion a year in state pension and winter-fuel allowances alone.

I'd be massively in favour of removing SDLT (seriously an utterly stupid tax on moving house) and equalising CGT,IHT and Income tax. Make a cheeky £20K gain on the stock market, inherit £300K and earn £100K that year. You're taxed at the same rate on it all regardless. 

Personally I stopped "direct" employment once the tax I was paying went above 50% of my income.  

My time is more valuable.

As it's been reported the £tax take goes down once it's over 45%. People find ways around it, leave the country. take early retirement or just stop altogether.

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3 hours ago, wighty said:

Anyway cant see him doing anything other than a bit of tinkering.

 

Agreed. Putting up taxes makes zero economic sense with half the economy shut and the govt having to borrow £30bn a month to keep the lights on.

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1 minute ago, wighty said:

Personally I stopped "direct" employment once the tax I was paying went above 50% of my income.  

My time is more valuable.

As it's been reported the £tax take goes down once it's over 45%. People find ways around it, leave the country. take early retirement or just stop altogether.

I just make pension contributions to take a fair bit of the burden off. 

45% it is then! I'm still not hearing a strong argument for not taxing everything an individual makes/ earns in one year as the same rate. Just classify the lot as income and be done with it. 

The reason those institutional investors don't pay CGT is because it's not a capital gain, it's an investment on behalf of a third party. Ultimately the retail investors are paying CGT on that said gain so you can't tax both... if that makes sense? The institutional investors make their money charging a management fee. 

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Just now, zugzwang said:

Agreed. Putting up taxes makes zero economic sense with half the economy shut and the govt having to borrow £30bn a month to keep the lights on.

Yeah and interest rates being twice bugger all it doesnt really matter when he pays back the borrowings

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2 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Agreed. Putting up taxes makes zero economic sense with half the economy shut and the govt having to borrow £30bn a month to keep the lights on.

Yeah agreed, don't tax the recovery... I'm just making the case for tax equalisation and simplification. 

Here's a question though, if you were to raise taxes what would you do?

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4 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Agreed. Putting up taxes makes zero economic sense with half the economy shut and the govt having to borrow £30bn a month to keep the lights on.

Having or wanting to borrow ?

It seems off to me that we have an ex-GS banker getting the country into more and more debt.

Worse case we have a ponzi scam economy right now which could unravel pretty quickly.

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1 minute ago, Unmoderated said:

I just make pension contributions to take a fair bit of the burden off. 

45% it is then! I'm still not hearing a strong argument for not taxing everything an individual makes/ earns in one year as the same rate. Just classify the lot as income and be done with it. 

The reason those institutional investors don't pay CGT is because it's not a capital gain, it's an investment on behalf of a third party. Ultimately the retail investors are paying CGT on that said gain so you can't tax both... if that makes sense? The institutional investors make their money charging a management fee. 

But it was a sweeping statement that CGT is to be 45%. He could change the rules and  include the above.

We don't know what he'll do, although I'd wager next to nothing.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Unmoderated said:

Yeah agreed, don't tax the recovery... I'm just making the case for tax equalisation and simplification. 

Here's a question though, if you were to raise taxes what would you do?

Land Value Tax, Amazon Tax, Tobin Tax.

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6 minutes ago, Unmoderated said:

I just make pension contributions to take a fair bit of the burden off. 

45% it is then! I'm still not hearing a strong argument for not taxing everything an individual makes/ earns in one year as the same rate. Just classify the lot as income and be done with it. 

The reason those institutional investors don't pay CGT is because it's not a capital gain, it's an investment on behalf of a third party. Ultimately the retail investors are paying CGT on that said gain so you can't tax both... if that makes sense? The institutional investors make their money charging a management fee. 

"45% it is then! I'm still not hearing a strong argument for not taxing everything an individual makes/ earns in one year as the same rate."

When a government tried to raise the 45% a few years ago, the total £ tax rate went down.

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4 minutes ago, wighty said:

But it was a sweeping statement that CGT is to be 45%. He could change the rules and  include the above.

We don't know what he'll do, although I'd wager next to nothing.

The gain is not the institution's. They are managing the money on behalf of their customers. They don't own the gain, the customers do. 

I'm with you he'll do nothing but a light tinker. Higher rate pension relief maybe goes (screwing those of us young enough to just be getting up to six figures while ensuring the party faithful that made their uncapped contributions are golden!). Maybe a bit on fuel duty. Subtle stuff that doesn't really grab headlines. 

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7 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Having or wanting to borrow ?

It seems off to me that we have an ex-GS banker getting the country into more and more debt.

Worse case we have a ponzi scam economy right now which could unravel pretty quickly.

Yeah, we should pay off the national debt now and get someone without any background in real world finance running the Treasury. 

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has anyone seen the link of this page to this ****

https://www.carterjonas.co.uk/residential/extending-stamp-duty-holiday

 

The housing market really must be near collapse for the useless money grabbing useless work shy lying cheating swindling second hand house salesmen industry to be doing this sort of begging.

 

Not one penny of the peoples money should got to these wasters.

 

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