wighty Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, captainb said: Corp tax is harder as its effectively double taxation. I.e I own a company that pays Corp tax o profits as a seperate legal entity (taxed once) then when I pay a divi to myself from post tax profits I'm taxed (second tax event) Yeah, I was the same but have gotten screwed by IR35. Not worth working full time - just a few months a year. Let an Indian offshore company have my job and UK lose the tax, NI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Nasty Piece of work” Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 13 hours ago, Unmoderated said: I'd take HPI over death FFS. I want to see the pro HPI camp looking rather like humanish wind charms. For the dimmest of the dim, it isn’t a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 20 hours ago, HovelinHove said: . If you have made £3 million out of Bitcoin, you would do better to pay your dues to society, stay here, and avoid the headaches. What ‘dues to society’?! he or she made that investment decision themselves. It’s outrageous to think they should pay a penny of the profit to a government who is fiscally inept. I would pay the tax owed yes, to avoid being banged up but I would begrudge every penny of doing so and look to avoid legally by any means possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 On 24/02/2021 at 07:15, HovelinHove said: May be a few HODLERs with clenched buttocks this morning. 45%...nasty. Tiny violin. Not nasty, fair. And if you've had a 500%, 1000% or 10000% BTC return then paying 45% tax as opposed to 20% tax still leaves a life changing sum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unmoderated Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 15 hours ago, captainb said: Corp tax is harder as its effectively double taxation. I.e I own a company that pays Corp tax o profits as a seperate legal entity (taxed once) then when I pay a divi to myself from post tax profits I'm taxed (second tax event) Sure - so make the equalisation and the dividends are already taxed at the same rate such that there's no difference between paying a salary or dividends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 BTL landlords worried as Rishi Sunak looks set to increase capital gains tax https://propertyindustryeye.com/btl-landlords-worried-as-rishi-sunak-looks-set-to-increase-capital-gains-tax/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, rantnrave said: BTL landlords worried as Rishi Sunak looks set to increase capital gains tax https://propertyindustryeye.com/btl-landlords-worried-as-rishi-sunak-looks-set-to-increase-capital-gains-tax/ Brilliant...force the BTLers to sell whilst funding their replacements with 0% IRs and magicked up cash...more trick up for the rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley George Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Caught the back end of an interview on LBC this morning with one of BoJo's economic policy experts arguing for the abolition of SDLT altogether. He was making a lot of the arguments already made on here about it being a bad tax and one which disincentives moving house etc. All fairly reasonable until, his parting gift - banks should prioritise the release of 95% and 100% mortgages to help get trapped renters onto the housing ladder. Seriously what chance have we got!? Doesn't matter what the question is for this govt - the answer is more cheap debt for the masses.🥵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Invective Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, rantnrave said: BTL landlords worried as Rishi Sunak looks set to increase capital gains tax https://propertyindustryeye.com/btl-landlords-worried-as-rishi-sunak-looks-set-to-increase-capital-gains-tax/ The comments are quite interesting - even the VIs are wary now. The same "be careful what you wish for" regarding an overheated (i.e. insane) "market" was spouted on LBC this morning by a property dude. For instance: PossessionFriendUK39 FEBRUARY 25, 2021 AT 09:29#11 At the risk of being controversial, I disagreed with the temporary reduction in Stamp Duty. It was unnecessary and always going to create a burst of activity which wasn’t needed. ‘We’d all like to go away to somewhere warm for a week in the winter, but Everyone has to face the reality of returning to the status quo.’ Let me assure you where I am in a London suburb rents have reached the too, healthy yields are no longer available especially when you factor in escalating service charges, ground rents and agents fees. Many Landlords in the SE hanging on by their finger nails and we’re certainly not seeing new investment in the BTL market. The benefits of being a Landlord are minimal. No rewards for assisting the governments issue of housing demand. Total chaos is coming and it’s the lower classes that will suffer as a result when legislation was introduced to supposedly assist these types of groups. There's the usual "not all landlords are wealthy" codswallop of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56190754 Not a surprise that BJ and Richy Sunack are going to put their hands in the taxpayers pocket and spray the cash, all on "eazy terms, buy now and pay later" (like after their long gone and safety tucked into their new jobs at you nearest investment bank). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 So, correct me if I am wrong. We are probably going to see new taxes which the gov intend to channel to the housing market? New schemes, new houses? How long can this cow provide milk before dying for the good? I was under the impression we were going to build back better? New infrastructures, digital economy, green projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Nasty Piece of work” Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 58 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said: build back better? This lot lie, can kick, pump and short termism, anything to gain and remain in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 23 hours ago, Locke said: You're assuming there will be a state left to collect on it if/when people decide to sell. Besides, there is a personal exemption for some amount (for now) Technically, CGT is levied on houses (yes, even primary residences) but the government has chosen to waive that (again, for now) I can`t assume anything. what we can assume is they will not stop borrowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 On 24/02/2021 at 07:15, HovelinHove said: May be a few HODLERs with clenched buttocks this morning. 45%...nasty. Tiny violin. We will just leave the uk for 4-6 years, whatever the rules are, become tax residents in a 0% CGT territory after 6 months, sell it, use the CGT saved to fund the venture including outright house purchase, have a four- six year holiday, return to the UK a few months year to visit family and friends, and when the time has passed, repatriate our FIAT as GBP and HMRC would get nothing. You cant put a house / business / gold / silver in your memory , pocket and just fly off somewhere else with it. This is the beauty of Bitcoin and Crypto, highly portable and invisible to HMRC, unlike nearly all other assets. The more you tighten your grip Sunak, the more Crypto CGT will slip through your fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 On 24/02/2021 at 12:40, HovelinHove said: If you are a citizen or have permanent residence in another country (something you would need to stay for. Any length of time), and if you stand to save that much, and the country you are going to doesn’t tax the heck out foreigners at some point to pay for the COVID mess, then makes sense. However, I wouldn’t trust other governments not to tax rich overseas types once the COVID bill lands on the doorstep...they are the softest of soft targets for populist politicians and garner zero sympathy from anyone...and rightly so. If you have made £3 million out of Bitcoin, you would do better to pay your dues to society, stay here, and avoid the headaches. The view of a no-coiner, man i will personally make sure you all suffer once we get our Citadels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Frugal Git said: What ‘dues to society’?! he or she made that investment decision themselves. It’s outrageous to think they should pay a penny of the profit to a government who is fiscally inept. I would pay the tax owed yes, to avoid being banged up but I would begrudge every penny of doing so and look to avoid legally by any means possible. It's a ringing indictment of the government education system that less than 1 in a thousand people can understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 On 24/02/2021 at 12:40, HovelinHove said: If you are a citizen or have permanent residence in another country (something you would need to stay for. Any length of time), and if you stand to save that much, and the country you are going to doesn’t tax the heck out foreigners at some point to pay for the COVID mess, then makes sense. However, I wouldn’t trust other governments not to tax rich overseas types once the COVID bill lands on the doorstep...they are the softest of soft targets for populist politicians and garner zero sympathy from anyone...and rightly so. If you have made £3 million out of Bitcoin, you would do better to pay your dues to society, stay here, and avoid the headaches. You dont see how this works, let me give you an example. Lets say it's 2025 and my Bitcoin is now worth £1m , about 4 x from it's vlaue now. UK CGT would now be 45%. so to cash out as a UK tax residence means handing £450k over to HMRC to pay you lazy twats who stayed at home and had a 12 month National holiday, now being paid by me. My view, if you cant self fund covid avoidence by not working like me, you have to risk your life going to work. Ok, so you have picked one of several 0% CGT territories, and lets say it's 2022 and not all have declared post covid tax increases, by 2025 they will all have. So you pick the best option, and moved there. Your aim is simple, a CGT reset at 0%, funded by CGT savings not paid by being a resident in the UK. Now this is the beauty of Bitcoin, while "in" it, your wealth is untouchable until you exit, and there will always be a friendly cheap door somewhere. So you rent a place for six months you need to become a tax resident, then in the 7th month you sell all your Bitcoin for £1m. No CGT is due in the territory as it's CGT free / Crypto CGT free. You keep you £450k you would have handed to Sunak, wait 1 month or whatever the local "CGT" bed and breakfast rules are, but assume 0% CGT , there are none i would assume. So with your remaining £650k , you immediately buy Bitcoin again, putting it out of taxation reach. The £450k, you say spend £200-£250k of a nice place outright to live in for 4-6 years, then the other £200k you use to "live" in your nex tax exile home territory, have a 4-6 year holiday, 1/2 dozed flights home a year to spend as much time "legally" in the UK to not become a tax resident again. After the 4-6 years are up, you move back to the UK with any remaining cash left and a BTC reset buy in price 1000%+ higher than your initial buy price that gave you a seven figure profit. So while you where abroad, your wealth was a local house with no mortgage, and £200k of cash, which you can store in a UK bank if you wish, so it can't' be "grabbed" in a GOV robbery "haircut" like they did in Cyprus in 2013. Pretty much, if forced, Crypto holders are "untouchable" for CGT tax , or any tax, without worldwide co-operation, and the Rich 1% will never allow that to happen, they always want their tax havens for themselves. Money gives you "means" to avoid tax not open to the plebs or those with assets "stuck" in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 13 hours ago, Frugal Git said: What ‘dues to society’?! he or she made that investment decision themselves. It’s outrageous to think they should pay a penny of the profit to a government who is fiscally inept. I would pay the tax owed yes, to avoid being banged up but I would begrudge every penny of doing so and look to avoid legally by any means possible. After all you did work hard for that speculative capital gain. Just like a BTL landlord I know who has been in the business for 40 years after an inheritance way back when, believes that he shouldn't pay CGT on account of working so hard for his current £1.5 mill++ holding. He is wanting to sell but wont for CGT reasons, so will die without enjoying the gains and as he is is well over 70 now and he wont get that even better yacht than he already has but has been harping on about for the last 10 years, nor that sailing trip around the Caribbean, nor the world cruise his wife has been nagging about for 20 years, nor to buy his daughters a flat/house (until he is dead that is). Ive been telling him to sell up and pay the damned CGT for the last 10 years and to enjoy what's left of life. I would if I had the option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, steve99 said: After all you did work hard for that speculative capital gain. Just like a BTL landlord I know who has been in the business for 40 years after an inheritance way back when, believes that he shouldn't pay CGT on account of working so hard for his current £1.5 mill++ holding. He is wanting to sell but wont for CGT reasons, so will die without enjoying the gains and as he is is well over 70 now and he wont get that even better yacht than he already has but has been harping on about for the last 10 years, nor that sailing trip around the Caribbean, nor the world cruise his wife has been nagging about for 20 years, nor to buy his daughters a flat/house (until he is dead that is). Ive been telling him to sell up and pay the damned CGT for the last 10 years and to enjoy what's left of life. I would if I had the option. Why doesn't he sell £12k(ish) of his property gainz ever tax tear to get it CGT, and gift £12k(ish) to his wife to sell to, that whay they could spend and extra £2k+ pcm tax free to enjoy life? Ahhhh........my bad, his wealth is in "old fashioned" analog assets, not divisable or portable. Now i see how good Crypto is, gives you options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 8 hours ago, markyh said: You dont see how this works, let me give you an example. Lets say it's 2025 and my Bitcoin is now worth £1m , about 4 x from it's vlaue now. UK CGT would now be 45%. so to cash out as a UK tax residence means handing £450k over to HMRC to pay you lazy twats who stayed at home and had a 12 month National holiday, now being paid by me. My view, if you cant self fund covid avoidence by not working like me, you have to risk your life going to work. Ok, so you have picked one of several 0% CGT territories, and lets say it's 2022 and not all have declared post covid tax increases, by 2025 they will all have. So you pick the best option, and moved there. Your aim is simple, a CGT reset at 0%, funded by CGT savings not paid by being a resident in the UK. Now this is the beauty of Bitcoin, while "in" it, your wealth is untouchable until you exit, and there will always be a friendly cheap door somewhere. So you rent a place for six months you need to become a tax resident, then in the 7th month you sell all your Bitcoin for £1m. No CGT is due in the territory as it's CGT free / Crypto CGT free. You keep you £450k you would have handed to Sunak, wait 1 month or whatever the local "CGT" bed and breakfast rules are, but assume 0% CGT , there are none i would assume. So with your remaining £650k , you immediately buy Bitcoin again, putting it out of taxation reach. The £450k, you say spend £200-£250k of a nice place outright to live in for 4-6 years, then the other £200k you use to "live" in your nex tax exile home territory, have a 4-6 year holiday, 1/2 dozed flights home a year to spend as much time "legally" in the UK to not become a tax resident again. After the 4-6 years are up, you move back to the UK with any remaining cash left and a BTC reset buy in price 1000%+ higher than your initial buy price that gave you a seven figure profit. So while you where abroad, your wealth was a local house with no mortgage, and £200k of cash, which you can store in a UK bank if you wish, so it can't' be "grabbed" in a GOV robbery "haircut" like they did in Cyprus in 2013. Pretty much, if forced, Crypto holders are "untouchable" for CGT tax , or any tax, without worldwide co-operation, and the Rich 1% will never allow that to happen, they always want their tax havens for themselves. Money gives you "means" to avoid tax not open to the plebs or those with assets "stuck" in the UK. '' pay you lazy twats'' You really are an insulting ''C-word''. Most people work, cannot afford to speculate like the parasite class and have had no option other than work from home or furlough or whatever. If we were all like you there would be no NHS, no roads built, no trucks driven, no houses built, no supermarkets run. A speculator in anything, just like house price speculation (which this site is against) is just another form of parasite and as such should be highly taxed. If we are all lucky house prices will crash to their proper value of 1/3 of what they are and at the same time bit coin will crash to what it is really worth to society, ie Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wighty Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, markyh said: You dont see how this works, let me give you an example. Lets say it's 2025 and my Bitcoin is now worth £1m , about 4 x from it's vlaue now. UK CGT would now be 45%. so to cash out as a UK tax residence means handing £450k over to HMRC to pay you lazy twats who stayed at home and had a 12 month National holiday, now being paid by me. My view, if you cant self fund covid avoidence by not working like me, you have to risk your life going to work. Ok, so you have picked one of several 0% CGT territories, and lets say it's 2022 and not all have declared post covid tax increases, by 2025 they will all have. So you pick the best option, and moved there. Your aim is simple, a CGT reset at 0%, funded by CGT savings not paid by being a resident in the UK. Now this is the beauty of Bitcoin, while "in" it, your wealth is untouchable until you exit, and there will always be a friendly cheap door somewhere. So you rent a place for six months you need to become a tax resident, then in the 7th month you sell all your Bitcoin for £1m. No CGT is due in the territory as it's CGT free / Crypto CGT free. You keep you £450k you would have handed to Sunak, wait 1 month or whatever the local "CGT" bed and breakfast rules are, but assume 0% CGT , there are none i would assume. So with your remaining £650k , you immediately buy Bitcoin again, putting it out of taxation reach. The £450k, you say spend £200-£250k of a nice place outright to live in for 4-6 years, then the other £200k you use to "live" in your nex tax exile home territory, have a 4-6 year holiday, 1/2 dozed flights home a year to spend as much time "legally" in the UK to not become a tax resident again. After the 4-6 years are up, you move back to the UK with any remaining cash left and a BTC reset buy in price 1000%+ higher than your initial buy price that gave you a seven figure profit. So while you where abroad, your wealth was a local house with no mortgage, and £200k of cash, which you can store in a UK bank if you wish, so it can't' be "grabbed" in a GOV robbery "haircut" like they did in Cyprus in 2013. Pretty much, if forced, Crypto holders are "untouchable" for CGT tax , or any tax, without worldwide co-operation, and the Rich 1% will never allow that to happen, they always want their tax havens for themselves. Money gives you "means" to avoid tax not open to the plebs or those with assets "stuck" in the UK. Have you told your wife and kids you're planning this, Marky?. Anywhere you fancy? https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/quick-charts/capital-gains-tax-cgt-rates Edited February 25, 2021 by wighty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, steve99 said: '' pay you lazy twats'' You really are an insulting ''C-word''. Most people work, cannot afford to speculate like the parasite class and have had no option other than work from home or furlough or whatever. If we were all like you there would be no NHS, no roads built, no trucks driven, no houses built, no supermarkets run. A speculator in anything, just like house price speculation (which this site is against) is just another form of parasite and as such should be highly taxed. If we are all lucky house prices will crash to their proper value of 1/3 of what they are and at the same time bit coin will crash to what it is really worth to society, ie Zero. Sorry i didn't have my covid holiday paid for, didn't qualify for anything, and my wife has worked from home the whole time. Sorry buy COVID should be paid for aby all, equally, so either a temp VAT on food, higher VAT overall, or a big temps 5p+ rise in income tax. Why should those with assets have to pay double the tax on them so the average joe pays nothing towards COVID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Invective Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, markyh said: Sorry i didn't have my covid holiday paid for, didn't qualify for anything, and my wife has worked from home the whole time. Sorry buy COVID should be paid for aby all, equally, so either a temp VAT on food, higher VAT overall, or a big temps 5p+ rise in income tax. Why should those with assets have to pay double the tax on them so the average joe pays nothing towards COVID. Because of the poll tax lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, markyh said: Sorry i didn't have my covid holiday paid for, didn't qualify for anything, and my wife has worked from home the whole time. Sorry buy COVID should be paid for aby all, equally, so either a temp VAT on food, higher VAT overall, or a big temps 5p+ rise in income tax. Why should those with assets have to pay double the tax on them so the average joe pays nothing towards COVID. Wouldn't even touch the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Just now, wighty said: Have you told your wife and kids you're planning this, Marky? Already discussed and agreed with the wife before Xmas, she has a list of conditions, but all should be within a £450k+ budget. 1. A nice 2 bed house (with pool if possible) in a sunny place, near the sea, with cheaper than UK living costs. 2. Unlimited "school holiday time" visits for her and the kids with flights paid for , fun holiday type spending eating out whenever they visit. 3. Au Pair live in to help here with the kids / schooling and odd family "chores" i would normally do. 4. Me to spend as much time legally in the UK as possible, especially Xmas, Hers and kids birthdays etc, even if that means just flying back to the UK for a fews days before returning to tax exile country. 5. No running off with a younger local woman dumping her and the kids. (i took that as an understanding as "whores only" , no girlfriends) 6. Her to drop down to 4 days a week fulltime, Fridays off for constant long weekends. 7. A paid cleaner once a week, on a Friday, so her weekends are chore free, all cleaning, washing and chores done on a Friday. 8. Whatever else she thinks of if / when we get to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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