Two thirds of American millennials say they will be $ millionaires by age 45.

[Sour Mash]

1 hour ago, NuBrit said:

I think there is going to be hell to pay for the government when universal credit truly kicks in. If you have over £6k of capital, your UC tapers off. Anything over £16k means you get no UC at all. How many people are out there on low wages who have a small amount of money saved are going to get clobbered?

Is that not already the case with existing benefits - 6k before they start to get cut, 16k before you get nothing.

Of course, you can live in a huge house worth a fortune and that doesn't count as part of your wealth - indeed, you'll get the no doubt sky high rates paid for you.

The system focuses on the low hanging fruit of the average person's wealth - bank savings, premium bonds, equities.   Seems to me if you are smart you'll figure ways to hold wealth NOT in one of the above asset classes. 

[Killian]

1 hour ago, longgone said:

maybe, but we all live in the same world paying a similar amount for food bills etc. in real terms these jobs are 50% to 70% down on buying power than say 15 years ago. 

Agreed. I see it as a redistribution of wealth, some inappropriately (rich getting richer) and some to people in other countries with better work ethic and higher innate ability. This combined with Instagram/social media will create a massive disparity between aspirations and reality of the unskilled/stupid/lazy West.

[NuBrit]

37 minutes ago, Sour Mash said:

Is that not already the case with existing benefits - 6k before they start to get cut, 16k before you get nothing.

Of course, you can live in a huge house worth a fortune and that doesn't count as part of your wealth - indeed, you'll get the no doubt sky high rates paid for you.

The system focuses on the low hanging fruit of the average person's wealth - bank savings, premium bonds, equities.   Seems to me if you are smart you'll figure ways to hold wealth NOT in one of the above asset classes. 

It depends on the benefit, where you live and when you applied for the benefit. For example, with Working Tax Credits, I know that I can apply for it in my area up until February 2019 and be exempt from the £6k-£16k capital restriction for the next year. I think have they deliberately phased areas rolling fully onto new Universal Credit deliberately because they know there will be uproar if they do it all at once.

But yes, you are right. A £1m house and you can get all the benefits you like, but have £16k in the bank and you do not get a penny. Conservatives have everything geared to maintain high house prices at all costs.

[longgone]

44 minutes ago, Killian said:

Agreed. I see it as a redistribution of wealth, some inappropriately (rich getting richer) and some to people in other countries with better work ethic and higher innate ability. This combined with Instagram/social media will create a massive disparity between aspirations and reality of the unskilled/stupid/lazy West.

expect the suicide rate to increase

[Arpeggio]

The original research mentioned would be a lot more interesting if it included how these millennials intend to become millionaires. Or did I miss that part and it's in there somewhere? I did look but could not find.

3 hours ago, longgone said:

expect the suicide rate to increase

More US soldiers die of suicide outside of combat The first casualty of War is Truth , that was a long time ago.

[longgone]

7 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

The original research mentioned would be a lot more interesting if it included how these millennials intend to become millionaires. Or did I miss that part and it's in there somewhere? I did look but could not find.

More US soldiers die of suicide outside of combat The first casualty of War is Truth , that was a long time ago.

more stress = more breaking point being reached.  

its like a jolly rogers cookbook ! with regards to social media it is just a vile soup of ostentatious fake rants to get one over on your fellow peers most don`t even know each other. If you ever wanted to feel hopeless and lost spend a few hours looking at fake photo shopped pictures and holiday destination spent via 0% credit cards.  

[NuBrit]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/11/young-adults-most-pessimistic-on-uk-social-mobility-poll?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Quote

People aged 18 to 24 are the most pessimistic in the UK, with just one in seven thinking their age group has the most opportunity to move up in society, according to a poll.

Just 13% of 18- to 24-year-olds believe their generation will go on to enjoy the best standard of living, and 12% believe they will be better off financially than older generations.

 

[happyguy]

12 hours ago, longgone said:

with regards to social media it is just a vile soup of ostentatious fake rants to get one over on your fellow peers most don`t even know each other.

Agreed 100%

13 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

The original research mentioned would be a lot more interesting if it included how these millennials intend to become millionaires.

You do not understand they want it so they can have it! 

17 hours ago, NuBrit said:

But yes, you are right. A £1m house and you can get all the benefits you like, but have £16k in the bank and you do not get a penny. Conservatives have everything geared to maintain high house prices at all costs.

I would not expect much from a bank if I had  16k in a bank 

 

18 hours ago, Killian said:

Agreed. I see it as a redistribution of wealth, some inappropriately (rich getting richer) and some to people in other countries with better work ethic and higher innate ability. This combined with Instagram/social media will create a massive disparity between aspirations and reality of the unskilled/stupid/lazy West.

All the recent studies show that the gap between rich and poor in the UK has narrowed over the last 5 years.  That is not to say that some people are very well off and others are not of course. 

Agree with your comments on the moronic social media especially mebook and twatter.  They have given especially the snowflake generation an unrealistic  aspirations.  Many of these people do a degree in sociology and think they are geniuses who should run the world and know better than anyone else.  

[LivingWithTheInlaws]

On 10/12/2018 at 11:21, longgone said:

not surprising reading this 

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3441553-To-be-depressed-at-low-level-of-wages?pg=1

i tend to agree with them though. 

Surely they can't be talking about the UK jobs market where this is currently happening.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46520876

[Big Orange]

I think a large proportion of Americans are still drinking the Kool Aid of the "American Dream" and there's some truth in that, with the expanse of land and bigger housing, etc.

[longgone]

2 hours ago, LivingWithTheInlaws said:

Surely they can't be talking about the UK jobs market where this is currently happening.. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46520876

Lies. salary rises only for those that would have a decent skill set but only in a few industries. Put it this way what they consider a good wage in that thread and consider themselves lucky I was earning a similar amount nearly 20 years ago as a 22 year old. I am surprised what people are prepared to accept. 

 

 

[happyguy]

36 minutes ago, longgone said:

Lies. salary rises only for those that would have a decent skill set but only in a few industries. Put it this way what they consider a good wage in that thread and consider themselves lucky I was earning a similar amount nearly 20 years ago as a 22 year old. I am surprised what people are prepared to accept. 

I see it as the law of supply and demand.  The huge influx of migrants under the Blair govt followed by freedom of movement has brought an additional 4-5 million people into the uk.

The vast majority of these people have no skills that are required so put pressure on low skilled salaries.

Schools have pushed kids to go to college or a poly now laughably re-branded as a uni to give them credibility.    Most of the so called degrees kids do now are worth f all in the workplace.  

Jobs that earn a very good wage such as plumber or bricklayer are scorned for a degree in sociology for which there is no demand in the jobs market.

Result - we have millions of people doing low skilled jobs in front of a computer that millions of others could do just as well.   Employers do not have to pay more as they can always fill that sort of job with someone else.  

Many people could earn more by re-training as  plumber of brickie, for instance two of my mates are exactly that and they do not work for less than £250 a day.   For sure it is much harder work than sitting in front of a computer in a warm or air conditions office but they are making a lot of money.

[Killian]

1 hour ago, happyguy said:

I see it as the law of supply and demand.  The huge influx of migrants under the Blair govt followed by freedom of movement has brought an additional 4-5 million people into the uk.

The vast majority of these people have no skills that are required so put pressure on low skilled salaries.

Schools have pushed kids to go to college or a poly now laughably re-branded as a uni to give them credibility.    Most of the so called degrees kids do now are worth f all in the workplace.  

Jobs that earn a very good wage such as plumber or bricklayer are scorned for a degree in sociology for which there is no demand in the jobs market.

Result - we have millions of people doing low skilled jobs in front of a computer that millions of others could do just as well.   Employers do not have to pay more as they can always fill that sort of job with someone else.  

Many people could earn more by re-training as  plumber of brickie, for instance two of my mates are exactly that and they do not work for less than £250 a day.   For sure it is much harder work than sitting in front of a computer in a warm or air conditions office but they are making a lot of money.

Definitely better to do a trade than these non degrees.

Only problem is that only young to middle aged men really have this option. Most tradesmen I know have some sort of chronic injury by their 30s, going beyond 50 is difficult.

Add to that wage inflation among many of the trades has been ~ 10% a year, with the big builders willing to pay it. Cost of sales have been outstripping revenue growth for most of the builders for the last few years. Now house prices are dropping this will have to change, less new build sites will open and there will be more trades unemployed, this will suppress their wages. The trades are grabbing what they can before it bursts.

[Arpeggio]

1 hour ago, happyguy said:

Many people could earn more by re-training as  plumber of brickie, for instance two of my mates are exactly that and they do not work for less than £250 a day.   For sure it is much harder work than sitting in front of a computer in a warm or air conditions office but they are making a lot of money.

I think sitting down in front of a computer all day is harder. Would much rather be a plumber or bricky. Bin man was my favourite past job. Worse was data entry on a computer which sucked b#lls. One of my past clients worked as forest manager and the workers he managed actually worked for free, which is a bit disappointing but I can see why.

[longgone]

2 hours ago, happyguy said:

I see it as the law of supply and demand.  The huge influx of migrants under the Blair govt followed by freedom of movement has brought an additional 4-5 million people into the uk.

The vast majority of these people have no skills that are required so put pressure on low skilled salaries.

Schools have pushed kids to go to college or a poly now laughably re-branded as a uni to give them credibility.    Most of the so called degrees kids do now are worth f all in the workplace.  

Jobs that earn a very good wage such as plumber or bricklayer are scorned for a degree in sociology for which there is no demand in the jobs market.

Result - we have millions of people doing low skilled jobs in front of a computer that millions of others could do just as well.   Employers do not have to pay more as they can always fill that sort of job with someone else.  

Many people could earn more by re-training as  plumber of brickie, for instance two of my mates are exactly that and they do not work for less than £250 a day.   For sure it is much harder work than sitting in front of a computer in a warm or air conditions office but they are making a lot of money.

Doing a wet trade will destroy you by 50 if you started in your 20's. Paid decent but arthritis later in life. Plasterers have it even worse, I knew a few tilers and they all had back issues even at 40.

 

[happyguy]

14 hours ago, Killian said:

Only problem is that only young to middle aged men really have this option. Most tradesmen I know have some sort of chronic injury by their 30s, going beyond 50 is difficult.

Add to that wage inflation among many of the trades has been ~ 10% a year, with the big builders willing to pay it. Cost of sales have been outstripping revenue growth for most of the builders for the last few years. Now house prices are dropping this will have to change, less new build sites will open and there will be more trades unemployed, this will suppress their wages. The trades are grabbing what they can before it bursts.

To be fair the big builders are stingy when it comes to wages - it is the small developer and the private individual that pay the best money .  One of the guys i now would dream of working for a national developer.  

14 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

I think sitting down in front of a computer all day is harder.

If is it harder they should re-train to be a brickie and earn more money then

13 hours ago, longgone said:

Doing a wet trade will destroy you by 50 if you started in your 20's. Paid decent but arthritis later in life. Plasterers have it even worse, I knew a few tilers and they all had back issues even at 40.

To be fair my local drinking establishment is a traditional working class pub.  Many guys there are in their 50's - 60's and still working.  For sure some people get issues but that is true of people of all ages in all jobs. The advantage of a trade is that it will keep a person mobile and fit.  

I think this in a way demonstrates the problem which is that people want an easy life in low skill job in front of a pc rather than doing something that is harder, physically demanding and much better paid.

 

The advantage if having a trade is that in later life they are able to work as and when they wish to or just do a few small jobs to keep money ticking over.  

[longgone]

Everyone knows someone like that smokes and drinks like a alki 80 years old still building walls. 

[Riedquat]

4 hours ago, happyguy said:

I think this in a way demonstrates the problem which is that people want an easy life in low skill job in front of a pc rather than doing something that is harder, physically demanding and much better paid.

There seem to be quite a few people with bad backs in my office, all sat in front of a computer almost all the time jobs.

[happyguy]

14 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

There seem to be quite a few people with bad backs in my office, all sat in front of a computer almost all the time jobs.

and not doing any exercise, eating chocolate all day  

[happyguy]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

Everyone knows someone like that smokes and drinks like a alki 80 years old still building walls. 

exactly and we all know people who sit in front of a pc all day and are not in good shape 

[frankief]

21 hours ago, happyguy said:

Schools have pushed kids to go to college or a poly now laughably re-branded as a uni to give them credibility.    Most of the so called degrees kids do now are worth f all in the workplace.  

Yes, the old type 'Techs' & 'Polys' were much more useful. You could get a handful of GCE O levels, leave school at 16 and go the day release course route ONC/ HNC for technical or City & Guilds for trades.

By 21 you have got relevant qualifications and work experience and money in the bank.

Compare that to a 21 year old leaving Uni now with the wrong degree, they are starting from scratch and with a boatload of debt.

21 hours ago, happyguy said:

Many people could earn more by re-training as  plumber of brickie, for instance two of my mates are exactly that and they do not work for less than £250 a day.

Yeh, loads-a-money! You will probably find they are self employed 'labour only'. Come the next recession they won't be gobbing off about their pay packet too much, that's if they are working at all. The brickies 'on the books' with a company will stand a better chance of being retained, although admittedly they are on much less money.

 

[happyguy]

2 hours ago, frankief said:

Yes, the old type 'Techs' & 'Polys' were much more useful. You could get a handful of GCE O levels, leave school at 16 and go the day release course route ONC/ HNC for technical or City & Guilds for trades.

By 21 you have got relevant qualifications and work experience and money in the bank.

Compare that to a 21 year old leaving Uni now with the wrong degree, they are starting from scratch and with a boatload of debt.

agree 100%

2 hours ago, frankief said:

Yeh, loads-a-money! You will probably find they are self employed 'labour only'. Come the next recession they won't be gobbing off about their pay packet too much, that's if they are working at all. The brickies 'on the books' with a company will stand a better chance of being retained, although admittedly they are on much less money.

They are labour only and my buddies do not gob off as you rather inelegantly put it.  An extraordinary thing to say about people you know not.  They look after themselves and their families and work hard to do so.  There is a huge shortage of tradesmen which is likely to last for many years due to the fact that kids are all intent on going to a fake uni to do social studies.  They have been through a recession and did not stop working during that time.  Even in a recession they are not likely to earn less than one of those folks who sit in front of a pc all day doing low skilled admin jobs.  

[Arpeggio]

This thread and how more young people voted remain.

[frankief]

2 hours ago, happyguy said:

They are labour only and my buddies do not gob off as you rather inelegantly put it.  An extraordinary thing to say about people you know not

It was a reference to the Harry Enfield comedy character 'Loadsamoney', popular in the 80s/90s.

I am sure that your pals will not be offended.

[Renewed Investor]

This is the result of an education system that turns it's nose up at tradesmen and physical labour and tells each and every student irregardless of ability that they are super special and can achieve anything. "Get a degree in any subject at all and you will be on the path to enlightenment and riches" they tell you between the age of 12 - 21. When 90% graduates enter the job market and discover they would have been better off becoming a Plumber then the same people that told them all that BS in school turn around and say "You should be rich, the fact that you are not is because of Capitalism! We must burn the system to the ground and take what is rightfully ours!". This was my experience anyway after graduating in 2011 after being in education since 1994.