Another Russian Spy?

[Peter Hun]

On 31/03/2018 at 2:40 PM, jonb2 said:

Russia and its allies

Allies, who would that be?

[Peter Hun]

38 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

UK govt scientists: No proof whatsoever Russia was behind the attempted murder.

You can't even read your own post? It didn't say that.

This is not a court of law. There is no court where Russia can be tried and no matter what Russia would ignore the result or veto a vote.

We can decide to treat Russia as a pariah because of the pattern of criminal behaviour. The other countries did the same because of the same attacks coming from Russia.

For instance, Latvia who had a border guard kidnapped within Latvia and taken to Russia and held as  a Spy. Holland, whose citizens were murdered by the Russian Army in MH17. Or Ukraine, invaded by Russia, occupied and subjected to an ongoing terrorist campaign. Poland with a stream of Russian spies and threats of nuclear attack. Denmark who were directectly threatened with nuclear attack. Sweden and the other Baltics who have repeated airspace violations. The list goes on. And on.

Don't care anymore, patience has run out.

[Bruce Banner]

3 hours ago, Errol said:

This, of course, is sheer nonsense. I think 160+ nations in the world have refused to have anything to do with the US/Western actions. 

Of course, if by 'the world' you mean the US/West (which most in the US/West do actually consider as the world), then you are absolutely correct.

Over four days to answer. Communications with the Kremlin, for instructions on a suitable response, must have been delayed over the Easter holiday .

[Byron]

2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

You can't even read your own post? It didn't say that.

This is not a court of law. There is no court where Russia can be tried and no matter what Russia would ignore the result or veto a vote.

We can decide to treat Russia as a pariah because of the pattern of criminal behaviour. The other countries did the same because of the same attacks coming from Russia.

For instance, Latvia who had a border guard kidnapped within Latvia and taken to Russia and held as  a Spy. Holland, whose citizens were murdered by the Russian Army in MH17. Or Ukraine, invaded by Russia, occupied and subjected to an ongoing terrorist campaign. Poland with a stream of Russian spies and threats of nuclear attack. Denmark who were directectly threatened with nuclear attack. Sweden and the other Baltics who have repeated airspace violations. The list goes on. And on.

Don't care anymore, patience has run out.

+1

[Errol]

Craig Murray weighs in again:

 

Johnson and May Hide as their Lies Dissolve

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/johnson-and-may-hide-as-their-lies-dissolve/

 

May should resign over this. Johnson should already have been fired for the outright nonsense he was spouting (ably demonstrating his total unsuitability for high office).

[Errol]

Top German CDU Politician Lambasts Britain for Lack of Evidence in Skripal Case

Armin Laschet, head of the most populated German state, North Rhine-Westphalia, has criticized the actions of the UK and its foreign supporters in the Skripal poisoning case, reproaching the expulsion of diplomats without sound evidence.

The deputy chair of Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and the Minister President of the most populous state of Germany, Armin Laschet, lashed out at the UK, commenting on the latest turn in the Skripal poisoning case.

“If you force almost all NATO-countries to demonstrate solidarity, shouldn’t you have sound evidence? You can treat Russia as you like, but I have learned a different way of dealing with states, studying international law,” he posted on Twitter.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201804041063192459-skripal-novichok-poisoning-probe-diplomatic-row-russia-germany-uk-evidence/

[zugzwang]

14 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

You can't even read your own post? It didn't say that.

This is not a court of law. There is no court where Russia can be tried and no matter what Russia would ignore the result or veto a vote.

We can decide to treat Russia as a pariah because of the pattern of criminal behaviour. The other countries did the same because of the same attacks coming from Russia.

For instance, Latvia who had a border guard kidnapped within Latvia and taken to Russia and held as  a Spy. Holland, whose citizens were murdered by the Russian Army in MH17. Or Ukraine, invaded by Russia, occupied and subjected to an ongoing terrorist campaign. Poland with a stream of Russian spies and threats of nuclear attack. Denmark who were directectly threatened with nuclear attack. Sweden and the other Baltics who have repeated airspace violations. The list goes on. And on.

Don't care anymore, patience has run out.

Sorry, you'll have to try harder. That's exactly what Porton Down is saying: there's no proof in the evidence they have examined of any Russian involvement whatsoever. But thanks to Craig Murray we knew in advance this would be the conclusion. The recipe for novichok has been in the public domain for twenty plus years, any number of state actors could have made the stuff or a close analog. In fact, any reasonably capable chemist could do so. And that's before we even consider the possibility that vestiges of the old Soviet/Ukrainian program are still floating around the black market. Skripal was something of a fantasist, for all we know he could have poisoned himself trying to acquire the stuff.

Boris Johnson has told us the UK govt has evidence that the Putin regime has been manufacturing and stockpiling chemical weapons for the last ten years. If he does then we must see it, otherwise there is no case for Russia to answer. I, for one, am not hopeful. Johnson's already been caught lying outrageously when he claimed that an un-named Porton Down scientist was 'categorical' in his assurances about the Russian origins of the substance used in the Salisbury attack. Disgraceful but sadly not out of character. Johnson's serial fibs about Brexit have already established how unfit he is to hold the office of Foreign Secretary.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/boris-johnson-a-categorical-liar/

 

[Bruce Banner]

Yawn........  Of course they can't prove it.

As has been said many times on this thread, Putin would not do anything that could be proven in a court of law. He wants everyone to "know" it was him but not be able to prove it.

[Errol]

Boris Johnson 'misled the public' over Porton Down novichok evidence, says Labour

Diane Abbott, the shadow home secretary, has now explicitly accused Boris Johnson of misleading the public about the Porton Down novichok evidence. She implied as much in her Today interview, but she has now firmed up her language in a press release.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/apr/04/labour-criticises-boris-johnson-over-his-porton-downnovichok-claims-as-opcw-meets-politics-live

[Errol]

Foreign Office deletes tweet saying Porton Down confirmed Salisbury novichok produced in Russia

Tweet which has been removed/altered is below:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/apr/04/labour-criticises-boris-johnson-over-his-porton-downnovichok-claims-as-opcw-meets-politics-live

[Peter Hun]

2 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Yawn........  Of course they can't prove it.

As has been said many times on this thread, Putin would not do anything that could be proven in a court of law. He wants everyone to "know" it was him but not be able to prove it.

The Russians boasted about this killing and claimed credit for previous murders.

[Errol]

Once again, Boris Johnson is a liability to Britain. Why is he still in the job?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/04/boris-johnson-liability-porton-down-russia

[Peter Hun]

2 hours ago, zugzwang said:

If he does then we must see it, otherwise there is no case for Russia to answer. I, for one, am not hopeful.

Lol. Case.... what court is that?

[Errol]

The same one the US/British officials responsible for the war crimes of the Iraq war were tried in?

[Bruce Banner]

8 minutes ago, Errol said:

The same one the US/British officials responsible for the war crimes of the Iraq war were tried in?

Irrelevant mud slinging!

UK and US crimes nave nothing to do with Putin's crimes?

[Peter Hun]

Quote

Russia must cooperate with chemical weapons watchdog, says EU

Moscow told to provide full disclosure to investigation into Salisbury spy poisoning

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/04/chemical-weapons-watchdog-meets-russian-spy-poisoning-salisbury-sergei-skripal

[The Eagle]

The backslash is starting, as I previously said Boris will lose his job over this:

Quote

Boris Johnson accused of misleading public by claiming scientists identified Russia for nerve agent poisoning

Foreign Office under fire after deleting a tweet stating Porton Down had concluded the novichok used in the attack was 'produced in Russia'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/salisbury-attack-boris-johnson-nerve-agent-russia-misleading-novichok-spy-poisoning-latest-a8288216.html

[Bruce Banner]

5 minutes ago, The Eagle said:

The backslash is starting, as I previously said Boris will lose his job over this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/salisbury-attack-boris-johnson-nerve-agent-russia-misleading-novichok-spy-poisoning-latest-a8288216.html

Boris is a buffoon and deserves to lose his job......  but not over this. 

[Byron]

Boris is a useful Buffoon.

They get him to say the outrageous, but if it goes wrong it is easily denied.

'Everybody knows what Boris is like.'

[zugzwang]

3 hours ago, Byron said:

Boris is a useful Buffoon.

They get him to say the outrageous, but if it goes wrong it is easily denied.

'Everybody knows what Boris is like.'

The only person who comes out of this entire affair with any credit is Jeremy Corbyn. His measured and thoughtful responses look positively Churchillian when compared with the presumptuous bluster of Johnson, the FCO, and the British media.

[Bruce Banner]

Such "measured and thoughtful responses" play right into Putin's hands. Churchill would not have given Hitler the benefit of any doubt.

Edit: It worked for Neville Chamberlain though, or did it?

[Peter Hun]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

The only person who comes out of this entire affair with any credit is Jeremy Corbyn. His measured and thoughtful responses look positively Churchillian when compared with the presumptuous bluster of Johnson, the FCO, and the British media.

I you consider snivelling traitor an admirable trait. Or you are a russian tool.

[rollover]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

I you consider snivelling traitor an admirable trait. Or you are a russian tool.

Why are you accusing posters without any evidence?

Please list your facts and evidence, to support your allegation.

[Byron]

1. Jeremy Corbyn

1. 1. Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
   2. Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
   3. Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
   4. Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
   5. Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
   6. Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
   7. Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
   8. Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
   9. Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
   10. Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
   11. Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
   12. Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
   13. Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
   14. Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
   15. Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
   16. Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
   17. Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
   18. Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
   19. Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
   20. Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
   21. Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
   22. Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
   23. Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
   24. Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
   25. Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
   26. Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
   27. Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
   28. Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
   29. Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
   30. Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
   31. Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
   32. Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
   33. Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
   34. Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
   35. Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
   36. Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
   37. Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
   38. Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
   39. Opposed shoot to kill.
   40. Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
   41. Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
   42. Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
   43. Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
   44. Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
   45. Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
   46. Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
   47. Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
   48. Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.

 

[rollover]

1 hour ago, Byron said:

1. Jeremy Corbyn

1. 1. Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
   2. Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
   3. Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
   4. Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
   5. Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
   6. Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
   7. Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
   8. Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
   9. Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
   10. Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
   11. Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
   12. Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
   13. Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
   14. Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
   15. Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
   16. Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
   17. Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
   18. Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
   19. Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
   20. Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
   21. Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
   22. Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
   23. Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
   24. Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
   25. Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
   26. Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
   27. Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
   28. Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
   29. Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
   30. Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
   31. Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
   32. Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
   33. Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
   34. Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
   35. Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
   36. Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
   37. Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
   38. Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
   39. Opposed shoot to kill.
   40. Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
   41. Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
   42. Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
   43. Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
   44. Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
   45. Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
   46. Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
   47. Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
   48. Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.

 

Theoretically, you are beating around the bush and on all counts evading the main issue.