TryingToWin Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 41 minutes ago, TonyJ said: The market will go where the market will go, regardless of anyones's wants or predictions. If that means a huge financial crash, that's how it will be. If it means just a mild correction, that's how it will be. Disapproval of any particular outcome will not change the future. Do you apply that same logic to the government intervention in the 2008 crash? So the 08 crash + QE on steroids + 0% Interest rates was just "the market going where it will go". Is help to buy just "the market going where it will go"? Either the government (and the populace/society by extension) is capable of manipulating the market or it isnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior88 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, TonyJ said: I agree that those are all market manipulations on steroids, suppressing the real market. But eventually, I think something major will break, economically or financially, and that governments will be powerless to fix artificially without real pain for many people eg resurgent inflation or a collapse of real GDP. People are saying the last bubble to burst will be the bubble of trust in central bankers' magical ability to dig an economy out of a hole using a printing press. Then *real* market pricing will re-emerge. Probably a Trillion Dollar Question is when will this happen? No one really knows, for now everybody is dancing to the tune of economic growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior88 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, TonyJ said: Exactly - nobody knows when. But when the vast majority are feeling reassured and comfortably positioned, as they currently are, for a crash NOT to happen eg this year, I believe that is a time of particular danger that it will actually happen, since there are few left to take up that position and keep it going. Agreed on everything - except that there is something special about this year .. I felt the same in 2017 and before that in 2016 etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoobs Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 20/01/2018 at 9:54 AM, billy budd said: Just stumbled on this piece in "Property Eye" - time for the tiny violins.. http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/foreign-investors-left-nursing-huge-losses-as-they-scrabble-to-get-out-of-off-plan-deals/ Appreciate the beautiful irony that the agent who persuades foreign investors to pour money into London property is called 'Herd'. Baaaaa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnsey Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 So in summary, we're back to asset and personal debt levels of 2007, but little if any ability to stimulate or reduce rates considerably when the bust hits. Checkmate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noallegiance Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Somehow the lessons haven't been learned? SOMEHOW?! There's plenty of 'how', mate. Yet another bandit calling the truth now he's not in the firing line. I wonder if he's been chatting with Greenspan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior88 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42776549 Seems like everything is sunshine and rainbows per IMF but again they have never been wrong, have they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 hours ago, TryingToWin said: Do you apply that same logic to the government intervention in the 2008 crash? So the 08 crash + QE on steroids + 0% Interest rates was just "the market going where it will go". Is help to buy just "the market going where it will go"? Either the government (and the populace/society by extension) is capable of manipulating the market or it isnt. Yeah, Governments and CBs were certainly capable of staving off what should have been a massive global crash in 2008 and turning it around into something of a 'fill your boots' scenario for the bankers and their cronies whilst absolutely none of the underlying problems were solved. Made worse, in fact. The prospect of an even bigger crash just makes me worried what TPTB will do this time to try to counter it. Even heavier financial repression is a given but just how far are they willing to go in printing money, pumping house/asset prices to the stratosphere and destroying savings and incomes for the masses? People are already disgruntled and know they are being played, even if they don't fully understand how - much more of this nonsense and societal stability could be at stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapori Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Sour Mash said: Yeah, Governments and CBs were certainly capable of staving off what should have been a massive global crash in 2008 and turning it around into something of a 'fill your boots' scenario for the bankers and their cronies whilst absolutely none of the underlying problems were solved. Made worse, in fact. The prospect of an even bigger crash just makes me worried what TPTB will do this time to try to counter it. Even heavier financial repression is a given but just how far are they willing to go in printing money, pumping house/asset prices to the stratosphere and destroying savings and incomes for the masses? People are already disgruntled and know they are being played, even if they don't fully understand how - much more of this nonsense and societal stability could be at stake. The key are voter demographics. They are markedly different to 2008. Centrist neo-liberalism has had it's day for many who vote. A crash may be propped back up but again it will delay the inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Tapori said: The key are voter demographics. They are markedly different to 2008. Centrist neo-liberalism has had it's day for many who vote. A crash may be propped back up but again it will delay the inevitable. Precisely, a whole generation have very little to lose (but almost literally their shackles) by rejecting the neoliberal hegemony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TryingToWin Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 16 hours ago, Si1 said: Precisely, a whole generation have very little to lose (but almost literally their shackles) by rejecting the neoliberal hegemony. Im skeptical, Its Zimbabwe, but with iPhones and Youtube and housing benefit and free healthcare. Very few people with western luxuries are willing to risk their life to destroy a system that, while it severely restricts them, also ensures they dont get eaten by their starving neighbours. Financial Armageddon is only fun until Tescos is empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TryingToWin Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 21 hours ago, Sour Mash said: Yeah, Governments and CBs were certainly capable of staving off what should have been a massive global crash in 2008 and turning it around into something of a 'fill your boots' scenario for the bankers and their cronies whilst absolutely none of the underlying problems were solved. Made worse, in fact. The prospect of an even bigger crash just makes me worried what TPTB will do this time to try to counter it. Even heavier financial repression is a given but just how far are they willing to go in printing money, pumping house/asset prices to the stratosphere and destroying savings and incomes for the masses? People are already disgruntled and know they are being played, even if they don't fully understand how - much more of this nonsense and societal stability could be at stake. Ive actually started to consider the alternative to their constant intervention is immediate chaos, like the break down of civilised behaviour in the UK, so the mentality of TPTB is why not carry on until you eventually get to chaos anyway? I just want to position myself on the correct side of all of this when the Guillotine eventually falls on one side or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, TryingToWin said: Im skeptical, Its Zimbabwe, but with iPhones and Youtube and housing benefit and free healthcare. Very few people with western luxuries are willing to risk their life to destroy a system that, while it severely restricts them, also ensures they dont get eaten by their starving neighbours. Financial Armageddon is only fun until Tescos is empty. I don't think, despite my reservations, Jeremy Corbyn will manage to stop people having smartphones, YouTube, free healthcare or housing benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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