Countdown to leveraged BTL going bust thread

[Horseradish]

3 hours ago, AThirdWay said:

Put down your broad brush my friend 😉

I know it's hard to look in the mirror, but look you must.

[AThirdWay]

On 07/10/2022 at 16:09, Horseradish said:

I know it's hard to look in the mirror, but look you must.

All I see is a happy man with a clear conscience. I've asked around, that all they see as well.... 

[Horseradish]

43 minutes ago, AThirdWay said:

All I see is a happy man with a clear conscience.

All I see is a deluded parasite who stole from his "friend". Ask around here instead, you might get a more honest answer 😘

[AThirdWay]

2 hours ago, Horseradish said:

All I see is a deluded parasite who stole from his "friend". Ask around here instead, you might get a more honest answer 😘

I've made my situation clear on this forum for the many years I've been a member. The vast majority of members have the intelligence to differentiate between the leveraged BTL group and those who provide rental properties on a fair basis.

What's your position, do you think the only rented property should be government run? Perhaps you think there should be no rental market at all, all property is theft? 🤣

EDIT: Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Should I throw my buddy out and sell the flat? Where are the students to live?

Edited October 11, 2022 by AThirdWay

[Horseradish]

27 minutes ago, AThirdWay said:

Should I throw my buddy out and sell the flat?

You can't undo the damage you've done. Perhaps your abused buddy should have the property transferred to them, as a back-payment for the mortgage you prevented them from having. You realise that they will have no housing equity in retirement, right? So you'll head off on a million cruises and they'll be in penuary; and not because you're some astute businessman who provided something to our economy - no, instead you exploited a structural advantage to parasitise another human being. I know you won't ever look in the mirror, because happy lies are easier than uncomfortable truths.

Housing is, so blindingly obviously, zero-sum. When a landlord owns, the tenant can't. Face the mirror, or be a coward.

[Bob8]

 

54 minutes ago, AThirdWay said:

I've made my situation clear on this forum for the many years I've been a member. The vast majority of members have the intelligence to differentiate between the leveraged BTL group and those who provide rental properties on a fair basis.

What's your position, do you think the only rented property should be government run? Perhaps you think there should be no rental market at all, all property is theft? 🤣

EDIT: Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Should I throw my buddy out and sell the flat? Where are the students to live?

I think you are arguing with a loony.

[Horseradish]

8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I think you are arguing with a loony.

That's pretty lazy 👍

[AThirdWay]

1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

 

I think you are arguing with a loony.

Yeah, but was raining outside so I'm a bit bored  :o) 

[AThirdWay]

1 hour ago, Horseradish said:

You can't undo the damage you've done. Perhaps your abused buddy should have the property transferred to them, as a back-payment for the mortgage you prevented them from having. You realise that they will have no housing equity in retirement, right? So you'll head off on a million cruises and they'll be in penuary; and not because you're some astute businessman who provided something to our economy - no, instead you exploited a structural advantage to parasitise another human being. I know you won't ever look in the mirror, because happy lies are easier than uncomfortable truths.

Housing is, so blindingly obviously, zero-sum. When a landlord owns, the tenant can't. Face the mirror, or be a coward.

ONE MILLION CRUISES!

[msi]

30 minutes ago, AThirdWay said:

ONE MILLION CRUISES!

We are going to 'GROW' the economy

[Horseradish]

2 hours ago, AThirdWay said:

ONE MILLION CRUISES!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Landlord's_Game

 

[Bob8]

32 minutes ago, Horseradish said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Landlord's_Game

 

I lived in the USA for a couple of years. I let it out to a mate while I was away. How evil am I?  

[Horseradish]

17 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I lived in the USA for a couple of years. I let it out to a mate while I was away. How evil am I?  

😘

This graph shows the core of the problem. (ONS stats)

[Bob8]

48 minutes ago, Horseradish said:

😘

This graph shows the core of the problem. (ONS stats)

Yes, perhaps I was not clear.

I lived in the USA for a couple of years. I let it out to a mate while I was away. How evil am I?  

I rented a flat in the USA during that time, was I an evil oppressor or oppressed victim?

[Horseradish]

24 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Yes, perhaps I was not clear.

I lived in the USA for a couple of years. I let it out to a mate while I was away. How evil am I?  

Sure, I get that. I mean, obvously that's fine. There's also the argument that students need accomodation, and so does some portion of the population that won't qualify for a mortgage, though I'd argue that social housing rather than government paying through the nose at market rates is a better option there. Or perhaps you want to move to a town and need some rental accomodation for a while before you buy. The PRS is a necessary thing; the problem - as much discussed on here - is ZIRP and the resulting intergenerational unfairness. When rates are low the asset-rich get richer, at the direct expense of the rest.

[Bob8]

22 minutes ago, Horseradish said:

Sure, I get that. I mean, obvously that's fine. There's also the argument that students need accomodation, and so does some portion of the population that won't qualify for a mortgage, though I'd argue that social housing rather than government paying through the nose at market rates is a better option there. Or perhaps you want to move to a town and need some rental accomodation for a while before you buy. The PRS is a necessary thing; the problem - as much discussed on here - is ZIRP and the resulting intergenerational unfairness. When rates are low the asset-rich get richer, at the direct expense of the rest.

And, we get that. It is why we are here.

There are many on this forum who think the problem is not rentier capitalism. They think the problem is that the natural order has been disrupted by socialism, which is why they themselves are not rich and successful. 

Instead, you are arguing with people who agree the system is corrupt and are against it for the social damage it causes.

[Horseradish]

10 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

There are many on this forum who think the problem is not rentier capitalism. They think the problem is that the natural order has been disrupted by socialism, which is why they themselves are not rich and successful. 

Instead, you are arguing with people who agree the system is corrupt and are against it for the social damage it causes.

Honestly I am just so sick of the whole thing. At least the nationals aren't printing lies about the lack of supply anymore.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Horseradish

[Bob8]

Just now, Horseradish said:

Honestly I am just so sick of the whole thing. At least the nationals aren't printing ******** about the lack of supply anymore.

Understandable, mate. It does suck and the people have worse lives and poor accommodation to aid a few already wealthy people get marginally wealthier again.

[iamnumerate]

1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

Yes, perhaps I was not clear.

I lived in the USA for a couple of years. I let it out to a mate while I was away. How evil am I?  

I rented a flat in the USA during that time, was I an evil oppressor or oppressed victim?

If house prices were stable and people didn't have to pay masses of stamp duty when they move it might have been a better idea to sell and buy when you came back.

(I am not attacking your decision, I think it was the best one - but ideally it wouldn't have been).

[Bob8]

54 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

If house prices were stable and people didn't have to pay masses of stamp duty when they move it might have been a better idea to sell and buy when you came back.

(I am not attacking your decision, I think it was the best one - but ideally it wouldn't have been).

Thanks, it was also practical. He needed a place with furniture for example, and I did not want to ship my furniture back and forth.

[Mark1973_5]

I've rented loads during my life, and have never had a problem with any landlord. But then, I wasn't looking to get a 2 bed place for a one-bed price.

[12fixer]

Hello all, I wanted to bring your attention to this thread on Twitter, it's blown up in a big way, come join the fun, landlords are getting pummelled like I've never seen. 
 

 

[spyguy]

'We'll lose £5,000 on just one of our buy-to-lets': Landlords hit hard by Britain's mortgage chaos

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/own-five-buy-lets-lose-110000236.html

When Charlene Deane, a buy-to-let landlord near Bristol, comes to the end of one of her fixed-rate mortgages, her £930 per year profit on the property will become a £4,980 loss.

- ADVERTISEMENT -

 

Mrs Deane, 40, and her husband have built up a small portfolio of five buy-to-lets since 2009, when they started renovating local properties and letting them to families on housing benefit.

But interest rate rises mean their business model is now being turned upside down. Since the start of this year, the average rate on a two-year fixed-rate buy-to-let mortgage has more than doubled from 2.94pc to 6.34pc, according to Moneyfacts, a data company.

Rates have climbed so high that Mrs Deane’s property will no longer be able to meet lenders’ affordability stress tests – which means in turn that she will be moved on to an even higher rate.

Her existing mortgage rate on the property is 3.76pc. But when the fixed rate expires in June, she will be moved to a standard variable rate. This is currently 7.85pc. This means that Mrs Deane’s mortgage payments will jump by 106pc from £6,914 per year to £14,299.

Currently, Mrs Deane makes a post-tax profit of £931 per year on the property. After her fixed-rate mortgage expires, she will be losing £4,977 per year. The blow has been amplified by the phasing out of tax relief on buy-to-let mortgages since 2017.

She said: “This affects our ability to pay our own mortgage and bills, and therefore is not sustainable. Sadly, I am now looking at the possibility of leaving the private rental sector altogether."

Mrs Deane will be unable to remortgage the property because she will not be able to meet lenders’ stress test requirements.

 

[highcontrast]

25 minutes ago, spyguy said:

'We'll lose £5,000 on just one of our buy-to-lets': Landlords hit hard by Britain's mortgage chaos

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/own-five-buy-lets-lose-110000236.html

When Charlene Deane, a buy-to-let landlord near Bristol, comes to the end of one of her fixed-rate mortgages, her £930 per year profit on the property will become a £4,980 loss.

- ADVERTISEMENT -

 

Mrs Deane, 40, and her husband have built up a small portfolio of five buy-to-lets since 2009, when they started renovating local properties and letting them to families on housing benefit.

But interest rate rises mean their business model is now being turned upside down. Since the start of this year, the average rate on a two-year fixed-rate buy-to-let mortgage has more than doubled from 2.94pc to 6.34pc, according to Moneyfacts, a data company.

Rates have climbed so high that Mrs Deane’s property will no longer be able to meet lenders’ affordability stress tests – which means in turn that she will be moved on to an even higher rate.

Her existing mortgage rate on the property is 3.76pc. But when the fixed rate expires in June, she will be moved to a standard variable rate. This is currently 7.85pc. This means that Mrs Deane’s mortgage payments will jump by 106pc from £6,914 per year to £14,299.

Currently, Mrs Deane makes a post-tax profit of £931 per year on the property. After her fixed-rate mortgage expires, she will be losing £4,977 per year. The blow has been amplified by the phasing out of tax relief on buy-to-let mortgages since 2017.

She said: “This affects our ability to pay our own mortgage and bills, and therefore is not sustainable. Sadly, I am now looking at the possibility of leaving the private rental sector altogether."

Mrs Deane will be unable to remortgage the property because she will not be able to meet lenders’ stress test requirements.

 

[highcontrast]

Think this is the original article from the telegrah, comments are superb

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/buy-let-mortgage-crunch-means-landlords-could-lose-money/

"EI

Ed Isacke
14 MIN AGO
My heart bleeds for the landlords. But did they not know interest rates can go up?

DH

Down Hill
15 MIN AGO
There is no story here. Landlords who assumed success on a business model of endless ultra low interest rates deserve little sympathy. And I'm in favour of responsible private b2l landlords

PJ

Peter Joy
18 MIN AGO
'Rates have climbed so high that Mrs Deane’s property will no longer be able to meet lenders’ affordability stress tests – which means in turn that she will be moved on to an even higher rate.'
Oh, that's helpful. And logical. Not. And doubtless accompanied by some helpful HSBC/ Barclays rainbow leaflets about how much and deeply said virtuous institutions 'care', too.
To those that hath, shall be given. To those that hath not, they shalt be kicked when they art down...

MO

Mark oo
26 MIN AGO
It's a business - in business you have to deal with what is thrown at you, including changes in borrowing rates. If what you're saying is you don't like being in business - then get out of it. No doubt you've been doing very nicely up til now - nothing lasts forever.

HW

Hello World
26 MIN AGO
< >
Between the above two arrows if you zoom in really close, you will see a microscopic violin and it is playing just for Charlene. 😄

RG

Ray Gainsayer
14 MIN AGO
Yeah, seen it! Is that a photo of Clifton Bridge also? Good spot to jump off! 😂"

 

Emojis are all mine. 🙂

Basically diddums! You took advantage on the benecial environment for becoming a scumlord and now you want sympathy/ a bailout!?

Go fk yourselves you scumbags.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by highcontrast