Confusion of VIs Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, 2buyornot2buy said: My God. 1 million cars!!! They'll soon be able to make the same amount of cars VW make in a month. Mind blowing. From 1 plant that phase 1 of was built in little more than a year. The even bigger Texas plant will also be coming on line by the end of the year, in addition to this the California and Chinese plants are being expanded. VW won't be catching Tesla in EV production anytime soon and in the meantime their +20 ICE plants and 670,000 employees are rapidly on the way to becoming liabilities not assets. VW have moved into EVs earlier and more aggressively than their ICE competition and will no doubt survive the transition but the need to lose most of their plants and employees will make it a painful process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: The presses already installed at the Belin plant indicate it will have a capacity far above the stated 500,000 cars pa, maybe over 1m pa. Yes. They have to sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: VW won't be catching Tesla in EV production anytime soon and in the meantime their +20 ICE plants and 670,000 employees are rapidly on the way to becoming liabilities not assets. Three plants have already switched over to EV manufacture. It took weeks to do so. There is a newish video showing the ID.3 being built. The "ICE legacy" meme is 40 years out of date. Car plants have been flexible manufacturing robot fests for a very long time. switching to a new model is something they are very well versed in. The direct Tesla competitors are coming up for sale/on sale and the ID.4 for instance is a better, cheaper, more desirable car. Tesla don't even compete in the B segment and there are a handful of cars starting at less than half the Model 3 price already selling and selling well. Tesla are obviously aware that their plans for world domination are going adrift, there is talk of a cheaper model next year and the Berlin factory is an attempt to recover lost market share in Europe (and possible fix their reputation for poor quality). In China the local competition is looking very competitive. In the USA, they don't seem much interested in EV's do they? This is the the year when the Tesla ******** will have to start walking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: That time has already passed for those that plan on surviving the transition. In Europe, there are 35 new EV models launching this year. One of them is a Tesla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: From 1 plant that phase 1 of was built in little more than a year. The even bigger Texas plant will also be coming on line by the end of the year, in addition to this the California and Chinese plants are being expanded. VW won't be catching Tesla in EV production anytime soon and in the meantime their +20 ICE plants and 670,000 employees are rapidly on the way to becoming liabilities not assets. VW have moved into EVs earlier and more aggressively than their ICE competition and will no doubt survive the transition but the need to lose most of their plants and employees will make it a painful process. Tesla employ 50k to build 500k cars. 10 cars per employee. VW employ 670k for 11 million cars. 16.5 cars per employee. Tesla won't be catching VW anytime soon in terms of efficiency and employee utilisation. Edited February 7, 2021 by 2buyornot2buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Compilation: Best of Sandy Munro on Tesla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhVvFThHwIQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 02/02/2021 at 23:37, skinnylattej said: Perhaps I did not make myself very clear. If you use electricity to make hydrogen when renewable energy is plentiful, store the hydrogen as an energy source, can you then use the hydrogen to run a CCGT. My understanding is that it is easier to store hydrogen, although it has it problems, rather than storing electricity. I know nothing about CCGT generators. Yes, thats the plan. A wind turbine is on schedule to start producing Hydrogen by the end of the year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/20/denmark-to-trial-green-hydrogen-production-using-offshore-wind-power.html You can run gas turbines from hydrogen, either directly or by conversion into a easier to handle gas/liquid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, 2buyornot2buy said: Tesla employ 50k to build 500k cars. 10 cars per employee. VW employ 670k for 11 million cars. 16.5 cars per employee. Tesla won't be catching VW anytime soon in terms of efficiency and employee utilisation. Who gives a crap about that? Not VW for sure. With their bigger market share they will need more employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: Compilation: Best of Sandy Munro on Tesla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhVvFThHwIQ 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Who gives a crap about that? Not VW for sure. With their bigger market share they will need more employees. Mis-read your email. Tesla employee count isn't much of an issue, size= efficiency and Tesla are tiny and inefficient at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I have just realized my 1.4 diesel doesn’t meet London’s Ulez criteria but a Lamborghini Urus with a 4.0 petrol engine does. My car’s CO2 emissions are below 120 compared with the 350 of the Lambo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Diesel is very dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Diesel is very dirty. Same as a 500 hp 4.0 petrol engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said: Same as a 500 hp 4.0 petrol engine. Apparently its worse than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHPCinTheUK Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Apparently its worse than that. No it’s not! My CO2 emissions stand below 120 the Lambo’s are three times higher. Edited February 7, 2021 by NoHPCinTheUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Just now, NoHPCinTheUK said: No it’s not! My CO2 emissions stand below 120 the Lambo’s are three times higher. ULEZ is more about particles than CO2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Peter Hun said: 🤣 Care to ellaborate on any criticism, as Sandy Monroe is one of the most respected engineers in the industry who has worked for most of the automakers & who's company has reverse-engineered most notable ice & ev vehicles. They are then paid $millions for the reverse engineering reports by the large car manufacturers I've found him & his colleagues on Autoline to be most informative & accurate Autoline Edited February 7, 2021 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: Care to ellaborate on any criticism, as Sandy Monroe is one of the most respected engineers in the industry who has worked for most of the automakers & who's company has reverse-engineered most notable ice & ev vehicles. They are then paid $millions for the reverse engineering reports by the large car manufacturers I've found him & his colleagues on Autoline to be most informative & accurate Autoline Daily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9hpIgvPgxU Ok, his claim that Silicon Carbide is leading edge for inverters. Here's a 12 year old article about SiC inverters for Hybrids. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4592116 Other manufactures may or may not have gone down that route. For their own valid reasons, which may change. Next, his comments about magnets in his motor. They glue the magnets together. So what, where's the patent is its a new or relevant tech? Heard about other better magnet materials? Tesla casting is ten years ahead.. of what., how? the whole world? and how is that relevant? How can you be ten years ahead in a five thousand year old technology and why would it matter. His comments about the Model 3 production is that its terrible. Miss matched materials, every welding type you can find and even rivets. BMW are miles ahead, he said. The sum total is that non of these 'advancements' are any good unless you can produce a cheaper car that is better then everyone else. Mostly it is about solving problems that exist for Tesla because of their design decisions. Other manufacturers just went ahead and produced cars which are cheaper. Dacia Spring, 12k euro car in Germany. Whats Tesla's response to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipperwood Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I have been browsing Auto trader for a new used car and casually checked out VW Transporters, as that's what I have driven for the last 8 years from new. There are some now being advertised for over £70000, really???? Are people actually buying these. My van was quite a desirable spec with 6 speed, colour coded in metallic grey, alloys and 140bhp etc, which was £21000 plus VAT which we claimed back, as I was VAT registered at the time. Similar but with BiTurbo and body kit now £70000, doesn't make sense. Are they all on finance via company/ government emergency loan, or have people lost all concept of value for money? That's a lot of finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, Kipperwood said: I have been browsing Auto trader for a new used car and casually checked out VW Transporters, as that's what I have driven for the last 8 years from new. There are some now being advertised for over £70000, really???? Are people actually buying these. My van was quite a desirable spec with 6 speed, colour coded in metallic grey, alloys and 140bhp etc, which was £21000 plus VAT which we claimed back, as I was VAT registered at the time. Similar but with BiTurbo and body kit now £70000, doesn't make sense. Are they all on finance via company/ government emergency loan, or have people lost all concept of value for money? That's a lot of finance. Start at 27k here https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/new-vehicles/transporter-panel-van.html?---={"new-vehicles_transporter-panel-van_sectiongroup_featureappsection_95"%3A"%2F%2B%2F0"}&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvP6ABhCjARIsAH37rbRtfxMSAacZU5URHnOABZ94mxUq8s2ZcOOkA5fGMXmwNeGoTb2WfmQaAnXQEALw_wcB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyh Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Three plants have already switched over to EV manufacture. It took weeks to do so. There is a newish video showing the ID.3 being built. The "ICE legacy" meme is 40 years out of date. Car plants have been flexible manufacturing robot fests for a very long time. switching to a new model is something they are very well versed in. The direct Tesla competitors are coming up for sale/on sale and the ID.4 for instance is a better, cheaper, more desirable car. Tesla don't even compete in the B segment and there are a handful of cars starting at less than half the Model 3 price already selling and selling well. Tesla are obviously aware that their plans for world domination are going adrift, there is talk of a cheaper model next year and the Berlin factory is an attempt to recover lost market share in Europe (and possible fix their reputation for poor quality). In China the local competition is looking very competitive. In the USA, they don't seem much interested in EV's do they? This is the the year when the Tesla ******** will have to start walking. And yet Tesla still sell every car they make, without a cheaper car yet. Bored of arguing with armchair know it alls. Lets let the Global sales figures do the Talking. I'm telling you already, VW are going to be battery and ICE protective constrained on their Global BEV sales in 2021 and onwards. This will show up in the USA , they have a 250k manufacturer lifetime limit for a federal $7500 tax credit they have hardly dented. If they cant use that up in 2021 with the ID4 it's because they are holding it back due to battery supply issues, or low profits ID4 eating up ICE margins. Lets see where we are as the figures come out. Should get Global figures for Jan 2021 sometime later this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 https://evcentral.com.au/new-ev-calendar-2020-2021-2022/ UTTER BULL KRAP from musk sucklers. There are tons of EV`s due 2021 and 2022 There will be a sub 15k EV in the next 18 months guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 The best selling car in the US is going electric https://insideevs.com/reviews/377328/ford-f150-electric-truck-details/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipperwood Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Hi Peter, just put my spec in the configuration and it comes out at £36188. Not sure if that includes VAT which would be around £6031, if it isn't. Also asuming around 10% discount which is what we got at the time then £27000, against £21000 8 years ago, so not too bad. This is a nice spec so how can they justify over £70000 for a higher spec engine, body kit and back seats. Tried to post link https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010175123307?advertising-location=at_cars&is-quick-search=TRUE&postcode=ST137BQ&model=TRANSPORTER&sort=price-desc&page=1&make=VOLKSWAGEN&include-delivery-option=on&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&advertClassification=standard&modal=photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnylattej Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Yes, thats the plan. A wind turbine is on schedule to start producing Hydrogen by the end of the year. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/20/denmark-to-trial-green-hydrogen-production-using-offshore-wind-power.html You can run gas turbines from hydrogen, either directly or by conversion into a easier to handle gas/liquid Thank you for your informative reply. perhaps we will end up with a hydrogen economy, fuelling cars, domestic boilers, and as a store for energy. But storing hydrogen isn't straight-forward. Maybe even aviation will get in on the act, development of the "Hindenburg"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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