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House sellers 'should pay stamp duty' says Yorkshire Building Society

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House sellers 'should pay stamp duty'

"Stamp duty should be a tax on property sellers, rather than buyers, to help those trying to buy their first home, a major UK building society has said.

The Yorkshire Building Society said that nearly three-quarters of first-time buyers now paid the tax, compared with just over half in 2006.

Many more buyers were being drawn into the tax as house prices rose but the threshold remained the same."

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No no no.  It should be got rid off (apart from second homes) because :-

a) it reduces transactions increasing volatility

b') it discourages downsizing

c) I don't mind paying more tax than someone else because one or all of the following are true (some will not be)

I earn more, smoke more, drink more, fly more, drive more, have a bigger house, more expensive house but why should I have to pay more because I move house more.  If I were to move house tomorrow I would have to pay in tax a similar amount as I pay in income tax in a year (guess what, I am not moving ever).

 

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8 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

The EAs would put the price up, banks would lend against it, very very sneaky, the buyer is always paying regardless.

You're absolutely correct.  Well spotted.

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14 minutes ago, darwin said:

You're absolutely correct.  Well spotted.

@Yorkshire_BS says seller should pay asking price...EAs would bump up prices, buyer would have to borrow more = more profit for #YBS

 

@Yorkshire_BS To say the bankers are corrupt/desperate/criminal/evil/dysfunctional (IMHO) is an understatement

 

@Yorkshire_BS I am a YBS member and I am appalled at the actions of mutuals up and down the country since 2012. BTL is eating the country

 

@Yorkshire_BS ...and BuildingSocieties ( mutuals no less ) are supporting it. Totaly #Sickening

 

Have your say on twitter.

It's time the MUTUALS started action on behalf of their members

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40 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

The EAs would put the price up, banks would lend against it, very very sneaky, the buyer is always paying regardless.

Absolutely. The banks can lend against the stamp duty that can now go towards the deposit (stamp duty from the buyer acts as reducer of the deposit). This is just another thinly veilled prop.

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Can see them doing this. It hides a drop in house prices.

Old system nominal prices down 5% so house used to be 400k will drop to 360K +5% SD = 400K

New system nominal prices down 5% but seller now pays the SD, buyer still pays 400K, so house sale recorded on LR at 400k.

Chancellors love it when they can cook the books like this.

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25 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

@Yorkshire_BS says seller should pay asking price...EAs would bump up prices, buyer would have to borrow more = more profit for #YBS

 

@Yorkshire_BS To say the bankers are corrupt/desperate/criminal/evil/dysfunctional (IMHO) is an understatement

 

@Yorkshire_BS I am a YBS member and I am appalled at the actions of mutuals up and down the country since 2012. BTL is eating the country

 

@Yorkshire_BS ...and BuildingSocieties ( mutuals no less ) are supporting it. Totaly #Sickening

 

Have your say on twitter.

It's time the MUTUALS started action on behalf of their members

+1

 

C#nts

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I'm all for it. Can you imagine the outcry on P118 when they realise they are going to have to pick up the tab for Stamp Duty too when they are forced to sell all of their BTLs? :-)

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1 minute ago, oatbake said:

I'm all for it. Can you imagine the outcry on P118 when they realise they are going to have to pick up the tab for Stamp Duty too when they are forced to sell all of their BTLs? :-)

Raises the point....Who pays the stamp duty  on repos ?

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5 hours ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

@Yorkshire_BS says seller should pay asking price...EAs would bump up prices, buyer would have to borrow more = more profit for #YBS

 

@Yorkshire_BS To say the bankers are corrupt/desperate/criminal/evil/dysfunctional (IMHO) is an understatement

 

@Yorkshire_BS I am a YBS member and I am appalled at the actions of mutuals up and down the country since 2012. BTL is eating the country

 

@Yorkshire_BS ...and BuildingSocieties ( mutuals no less ) are supporting it. Totaly #Sickening

 

Have your say on twitter.

It's time the MUTUALS started action on behalf of their members

I'd like to "like" those tweets, but I can't find them :(

 

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Won't make any difference to prices -- buyers will pay as much as they can get a mortgage for.  I suppose SD might be more likely to be paid out of savings, giving more money for a deposit, leading to more money available to lend from the banks, but it is probably likely to be limited by salary multiples these days, not deposit.

 

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17 hours ago, One-percent said:

I'm surprised government hasn't already decided that both the buyer and seller pays stamp duty. Double bubble. 

50-50 split?

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10 hours ago, dgul said:

Won't make any difference to prices -- buyers will pay as much as they can get a mortgage for.  I suppose SD might be more likely to be paid out of savings, giving more money for a deposit, leading to more money available to lend from the banks, but it is probably likely to be limited by salary multiples these days, not deposit.

 

There is some mathematical dubiousness on this thread I cannot let go.

Stamp duty is paid out of savings/deposit so someone needing a 95% morgage on a 250 000 house needs a deposit of 12500 plus 2500 stamp duty so a total of 15000 gbp to buy the house. If the buyer has the stamp duty then they now have a 15000 deposit to which allows you to pay 300 000 (with 5% deposit) which is much more than the original price plus stamp duty. The deposit is geared in mortgaged allows the bank to lend using the larger deposit a larger amount. Of course some flimsy soft limit might stop this at 4.5 times income but those seem to have little effect.

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The 'seller pays but passes on in asking price' model takes a £300k house to £305k, but that then means the extra £5k gets wrapped into the loan amount... but the buyer now has £5k more to use as a deposit.

On the £300k house, if they had £75k in a mixture of cash / equity to use as a deposit +£5k in cash to pay SDLT, that becomes an £80k deposit - raises the price they can meet on an 75/25 mortgage to £320k...

But the constraining factor on mortgages at present is affordability testing not LTV ratio - so I suspect no impact, as £5k more deposit and £5k more on the price doesn't change the mortgage value.

Surely charging the seller doesn't work with differential rates of SDLT for BTL either... maybe getting rid of that is the real intention!

Edited by disenfranchised

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1 hour ago, sPinwheel said:

50-50 split?

Nah, don't be silly. An ideal opportunity for government to get double bubble. Charge each the full stamp duty. 

I really shouldn't give them ideas, I bet they have someone trawling web forum for the next potty idea

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2 hours ago, Mr Banks said:

There is some mathematical dubiousness on this thread I cannot let go.

Stamp duty is paid out of savings/deposit so someone needing a 95% morgage on a 250 000 house needs a deposit of 12500 plus 2500 stamp duty so a total of 15000 gbp to buy the house. If the buyer has the stamp duty then they now have a 15000 deposit to which allows you to pay 300 000 (with 5% deposit) which is much more than the original price plus stamp duty. The deposit is geared in mortgaged allows the bank to lend using the larger deposit a larger amount. Of course some flimsy soft limit might stop this at 4.5 times income but those seem to have little effect.

That would explain why the YBS is being so friendly and considerate, even charitable to first time buyers.  It helps with the YBS part of the ponzi.

There just seems to be a certain level of sickness in the YBS ponzi reinforcement proposal 

If one looks at their twitter stuff they might even throw in a keyring.

Edited by billybong

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I don't believe the mortgage market review affordability rules are having minimal effect - only today I saw a willing mug (friend I don't discuss property or economics with) moaning on Facebook that they can't get a remortgage deal now their fix has expired.

Probably stretched it to the max as wife is one of those overbearing aspirational types & wants the biggest everything.

House has gone up due to market stupidity.

But...

Wife has popped sproglet #1 and gone part time.

Affordability test failed... unable to remortgage. SVR 4.75% 

Ouch.

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