notMyName Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I once had a similar problem, and after the garage couldn't find the problem I lived with it for a while. Turned out that the previous owner had put some 'slime' in the front tyres, and it was pulling the wheels out of balance at speed. Very doubtful that your problem is the same, but shows that it doesn't take much to get some vibes through the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automotive Engineer Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 10 hours ago, DTMark said: What causes a car steering wheel to shudder when slowing down from speeds above about 50mph? I've Googled this and all the results point to the brakes. Yet, you don't need to be braking. It happens as soon as you lift off the throttle. I thought it might be caused by improper wheel balancing but have had that checked and it's not that. Can it still be caused by the brakes even when they're not applied? warped brakes 100%, its ok, it wont affect your abaility to brake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Apple Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 6 hours ago, dougless said: I think that Fabia's have electric power steering. Pump is electric, still have fluid running from the pump to the rack. Shouldn't cause this issue tho, rather heavy steering... Many things it can be, bearings, brakes or shitty tyres/balancing. I'd get the tyres done first and eliminate that then report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Apple Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 DP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 30 minutes ago, Northern Welsh Midlander said: Pump is electric, still have fluid running from the pump to the rack. Shouldn't cause this issue tho, rather heavy steering... Many things it can be, bearings, brakes or shitty tyres/balancing. I'd get the tyres done first and eliminate that then report back Yes can we get a report back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 It's back from the MOT now but I haven't driven it yet. We'll see if the new tyres have had an effect.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Bear Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 23 hours ago, workingpoor said: Oh well. The reason the judder is felt coming off the throttle is because the wheels (and brake discs) are slowing, one is slowing quicker than the other due to sticking caliper. Fix caliper now before disc is warped from the heat. (one other point, did the car go on the brake test rollers at the mot station? these hammer the the brakes and cause problems like sticking calipers etc and also damage diff's if RWD) Could try going back to garage and pin it on them ask them to strip and lubricate the caliper, this wont cost them anything and they might do it as a favour How would the brake rollers damage the dif and if so why only on RWD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 52 minutes ago, Rare Bear said: How would the brake rollers damage the dif and if so why only on RWD? Limited slip differential, different power applied to each wheel when cornering, cars bog down & slide about when on the brake test rollers, putting it on the rollers and hammering the brakes is not good for an LSD equipped car, they don't care if they damage the LSD and the customer is unlikley to realise anyway. Yes a FWD car equipped with LSD would suffer the same (although there are not many with LSD) Apparently VOSA states cars with LSD should be road test not rollers at MOT (and all 4x4 vehicles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Here, lots of info on net about it http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1295991 Anyone with a sporty BMW or other LSD equipped car would do well to look into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 FFS Mark, you should know the answer by now, buy another car and get on with your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Throttle applied and drive train in contact with the wheels no juddering through steering rack Throttle disengaged the juddering begins means there is some sort of play between the drive shafts and steering rack. My guess would be a ball joint or something in the linkage. If the problem persists explain it in these terms to your mechanic. Or don't bother, it passed it's MOT after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I had over 60 mph vibration problem before. Almost new car, no suspension damage found. Balancing and wheel alignment did not cure it either. Turns out one of the front wheel was slightly out of shape. I previously has a similar problem in another car but couldn't find any places which would straighten the alloy. However, things appear to have moved on recently. The out of shape wheel was straightened here: https://www.elitewheels.co.uk/wheel-repairs (Reading) That did remove the vibration. Alternatively, you could swap front and back wheels, and see if it make any difference; get a replacement wheel/s on ebay if can find them cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 OK, I've driven it now. The problem is still there. You have to be doing more than about 50mph. You don't have to be braking at the time. After driving, neither wheel is hotter than the other. Just some slight warmth from the brakes. We'd planned on driving it to Scotland in a couple of weeks, so a big round-trip and it is getting worse so I'll have to have this looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 3 hours ago, DTMark said: OK, I've driven it now. The problem is still there. You have to be doing more than about 50mph. You don't have to be braking at the time. After driving, neither wheel is hotter than the other. Just some slight warmth from the brakes. We'd planned on driving it to Scotland in a couple of weeks, so a big round-trip and it is getting worse so I'll have to have this looked at. Suspected it wouldn't sort it, as I understand it, it happens when you lift off the accelerator above a certain speed, unfortunately it was unlikely to be wheel imbalance, brakes, buckled rim, suspension component etc. as those things would manifest themselves in other ways. It's going to be something along the final drive, either gearbox, driveshaft or bearing. The other possibility (the best one) is it's either an engine mount or gearbox mount. Steering racks often locate near the gearbox mount so you may find that the engine turning puts it under tension which prevents the knocking but when you come off the gas the road wheels turning the driveshaft then engine and the whole lot shakes excessively. With this I would suspect some sort of improvement, or worsening, in the shudder, if you dip the clutch. With it having just had an MOT it's not impossible but would be unlikely a garage would miss an opportunity to sell you a driveshaft, suspension/steering parts. Best case scenario is it's the hub/wheel bearing you definitely can get it where they appear fine at low speeds but have play once them warm up which is magnified at higher speeds although I also suspect there ought to be other symptoms like grumbling. That leaves the a gearbox output problem where it appears ok when the engine is driving but the wear/fault shows up when the roadwheels are driving the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 On 1/27/2017 at 2:14 PM, workingpoor said: Here, lots of info on net about it http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1295991 Anyone with a sporty BMW or other LSD equipped car would do well to look into this. That`s for English/Salisbury friction plate type lsd`s ,most modern cars use an atb type which are roller friendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme2 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 21 hours ago, DTMark said: OK, I've driven it now. The problem is still there. You have to be doing more than about 50mph. You don't have to be braking at the time. After driving, neither wheel is hotter than the other. Just some slight warmth from the brakes. We'd planned on driving it to Scotland in a couple of weeks, so a big round-trip and it is getting worse so I'll have to have this looked at. Try swapping wheels front pair to back pair. Cheap to do as a diagnostic and would have thought you could rule out wheel balancing / tyre issues if this made no difference to the wobble. That would be a start if so. At the same time get mating of wheels onto hubs checked, the wheels might be balanced but they may not be sitting totally flat, maybe. After that, back to bushes, joints, engine/gearbox mounts, suspension, springs as mentioned previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 10 hours ago, onlyme2 said: Try swapping wheels front pair to back pair. Cheap to do as a diagnostic and would have thought you could rule out wheel balancing / tyre issues if this made no difference to the wobble. That would be a start if so. At the same time get mating of wheels onto hubs checked, the wheels might be balanced but they may not be sitting totally flat, maybe. Definitely first thing to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Changing the front brake pads for £40 will see the calipers opened up and lubed & refitted Could be worth it if pads are low anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neptune Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I reckon theres nowt wrong with it. You realise Mark can hear problems with Digital to Analogue sampling protocols on CDs. Hes probably picked up some harmonic beat in the 50Khz range that only dogs and whales would normally hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Neptune said: I reckon theres nowt wrong with it. You realise Mark can hear problems with Digital to Analogue sampling protocols on CDs. Hes probably picked up some harmonic beat in the 50Khz range that only dogs and whales would normally hear. I think you're on the money. The garage must think "oh no, him again" as Mark comes in suggesting that the engine note is a semitone lower at 2,200 revs than it was when he bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's booked in at the garage for later in the week, partner is going to leave it with them. It will be a lot quicker for them to swap the wheels around to diagnose (good plan) - certainly preferable to me spending what would doubtless be well over an hour in the freezing cold outside the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 16 hours ago, Frank Hovis said: I think you're on the money. The garage must think "oh no, him again" as Mark comes in suggesting that the engine note is a semitone lower at 2,200 revs than it was when he bought it. Perhaps larger tyres have been fitted, where the circumference is the twelfth root of two bigger than previous. That would cause one semitone lower. Actually that would be wrong. I meant one semitone lower at the same road speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automotive Engineer Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 26/01/2017 at 10:31 AM, DTMark said: What causes a car steering wheel to shudder when slowing down from speeds above about 50mph? I've Googled this and all the results point to the brakes. Yet, you don't need to be braking. It happens as soon as you lift off the throttle. I thought it might be caused by improper wheel balancing but have had that checked and it's not that. Can it still be caused by the brakes even when they're not applied? Here I am bringing back an old thread from the dead. See the Chris fix video on brakes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Frank Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Install iOS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The XYY Man Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 WARNING: Potentially Offensive Comment About To Follow. Snowlakes Should Look The Other Way Now Bit of a mystery this steering-wheel judder if you ask me Mark. Maybe it's time to think "outside-of-the-box"..! Have you been tested for Parkinson's recently...? XYY The dog's kennel is not the place to keep a sausage - Danish proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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