Si1 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54958749.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 There's a new thread over on PropertyTribes which seems like a precursor to running for the exit: Quote Stunned by Down-Valuation in 2018 Anybody else experiencing downvaluations recently on remortgage or sale? Local surveyor spent total of 5 mins for mortgage company ( according to tenant at Property) - same price as 10 years ago. !!! Is it worth reassessment or am I wasting my time? [Continues on in the same vein.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavalas Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Neverwhere said: There's a new thread over on PropertyTribes which seems like a precursor to running for the exit: Oh man that thread is the sweet stuff, thank you. I’m looking forward to much much more of that. I like how some of them are blaming those pesky distressed sellers in need of a quick sale... kind of like themselves really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Lavalas said: Oh man that thread is the sweet stuff, thank you. Couldn't happen to a nice(r)* person A BTL is a Home and not a Home! 47 minutes ago, Lavalas said: I’m looking forward to much much more of that. I like how some of them are blaming those pesky distressed sellers in need of a quick sale... kind of like themselves really. Indeed. No doubt they will be less quick to post about it once the shoe is on the other foot, but by then someone else will be complaining that their sales are bringing down local values! * Freudian slip. Edited July 18, 2018 by Neverwhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Neverwhere said: Couldn't happen to a nice person A BTL is a Home and not a Home! Indeed. No doubt they will be less quick to post about it once the shoe is on the other foot, but by then someone else will be complaining that their sales are bringing down local values! Good find but a tough (and, as usual from BTL website, making me angry) read! Yet the sentence they are debating against ("The short initial fixed term period can result in a number of tenants feeling insecure and that their house is not their home") makes perfect sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bear Hug said: Good find but a tough (and, as usual from BTL website, making me angry) read! Yet the sentence they are debating against ("The short initial fixed term period can result in a number of tenants feeling insecure and that their house is not their home") makes perfect sense to me. I'm not sure they're disagreeing with that so much as claiming that - in their view - tenants don't deserve homes and they want to be able to liquidate their BTL investments at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Hug Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Neverwhere said: I'm not sure they're disagreeing with that so much as claiming that - in their view - tenants don't deserve homes and they want to be able to liquidate their BTL investments at will. Ok, I guess there is some of that. Was difficult to home in on it with all the different fonts. Re-read it and this sentence just sticks out: Quote How can you expect someone who had not owned something before , know how to maintain and look after it?? How?!! How do our superior divine landlords learn to maintain and look after the magical and super complicated terraced properties in North-West? Is that ability given to them by God? Or were they born with a property portfolio? Clearly not this one, as they are worried about re-mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bear Hug said: Clearly not this one, as they are worried about re-mortgage. Reads to me like they are themselves struggling to maintain their investment properties as well as remortgage them. Quote I really do not have deep pockets required to put a roof over 4 additional families. The government has stretched this affordabilty going forward. And on top of that will dictate my choice and create more risk. Investorsk8 - will I still want to be a landlord in 2020?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorrowToLeech Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) “How can you expect someone who had not owned something before , know how to maintain and look after it??“ Er, they’re employing you to look after and maintain it. Right? Edited July 18, 2018 by BorrowToLeech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Neverwhere said: There's a new thread over on PropertyTribes which seems like a precursor to running for the exit: It keeps on delivering that thread. Property value down across the board. Next step will be margin calls from banks. And then distressed fire sale? Is that a 101 for a house crash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 hours ago, Neverwhere said: There's a new thread over on PropertyTribes which seems like a precursor to running for the exit: Is that a surprise? From 2002 IO BTL *were* the market/settign the prices. No IO BTL then prices fall back 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Maybe Im just too thick to understand the 3d chess game being played by LL and their boosters. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/moves-help-tenants-could-see-14924019 'Moves to help tenants could see landlords quitting market, warns expert Stockton Council is looking at charging landlords a £945 licence fee:: Estate agent fears the move could deter people from renting out homes ' One, note how a slum lord EA becomes an 'expert'. Note the cunning way in which LL avoid paying the LA license fee ... by not letting the property out. And we're bck t the accidental LL - or reluctant here: 'Mr Smith’s colleague, senior negiatior Claire Aitken, added: “We get people from the North-east who do not buy in these areas - we get more from London and the South-east buying cheap properties.” Mr Smith said he was concerned “reluctant landlords”, who rent out properties when they may not be able to find a buyer, could be hit by the changes.' 'He also thought fining landlords could put people off buying homes in a given area. “If a landlord got fined, that would be an area we would not sell,” added Mr Smith.' I guess people means LL. More 3d chess genius i nth comments: 'I'd either pass it onto the tenant or sell the property. If every landlord sold up where would the work shy lazy tenants live, cos there ain't no social housing any more! ' Now I assume that the LL has not bothered visitigng Stocton, despite being a LL there. He'd knwo that social housing is cming out of the LHA ears. And that the only people who've been buying houses for the last 20 years has been slumlords. Back to houses under 20k then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 11 hours ago, spyguy said: Is that a surprise? From 2002 IO BTL *were* the market/settign the prices. No IO BTL then prices fall back 15 years. I think it's a surprise for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Freki said: It keeps on delivering that thread. Property value down across the board. Next step will be margin calls from banks. And then distressed fire sale? Is that a 101 for a house crash? It is a good read - and it's gotten better since I last checked it! Quote Stunned by Down-Valuation in 2018 Derek Perry 22 hours ago Nothing new. All my rental properties have been undervalued, on aversge, by 20%. I'm in South London/ Surrey / Sussex DanH 10 hours ago Speaking to a good surveyor friend of mine he warned me of a wave of down valuations back in the early spring 2018, I can only assume this has continued. This is in the Bath/Bristol area where a lot of 2 bed flats are coming on the market, lots of ex-rental terrace houses keenly priced as well and I keep a close eye on these. Be interesting to see what the winter and Brexit brings. I am already seeing big reductions on no chain properties in what should be peak selling season. Interesting times ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 If BTLers have been setting a floor under market prices then a reduction in BTL buying capacity at the same time as an increase in BTL sellers is a double whammy hit. The CML bill the map below as showing the amount of extra deposit BTLers need to purchase 2 bed rental properties, but another way to look at it is how far property prices have to fall from 2016 levels for BTLers to be able to afford them, if they can even qualify for a 145% ICR, (which is unlikely to meet PRA underwriting requirements for higher and additional rate taxpayers). (Source) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Where I am (Haywards Heath) I'm seeing section 24 in action. Lots of BTL landlords have flats simultaneously for sale and to let and then (sometimes) for sale with tenants in situ. All have bought in the last ten years. None are ltd companies. Many seem to have mortgages with Lloyds for some reason. And the market for such flats with tenants in situ appears to be completely dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Been delving a bit.....people in the know, doing the sums......saying BTL is no longer viable when leveraged debt is having to play the main source of purchase......the rents will no longer pay, made my day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Anecdotal stuff incoming: I may have to move to Clapham in London, where my boss lives. Back in 2016 he found a 1 bed for (close your eyes those who don't know the level of rent in this city) £1600/m. Many listings are now at the £1500/m mark for 2beds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Prices follow the rents and capital growth......when interest rates not going anywhere lower soon, when deposits required are growing so are voids, fees and aggravation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Will! said: Many seem to have mortgages with Lloyds for some reason. Lloyds group has the biggest stock of buy-to-let lending of any UK banking group, currently about £41bn down from a peak of about £55bn in 2016; the whole market is probably about the £250bn mark. The Lloyds group buy-to-let lender is BM Solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Will! said: Where I am (Haywards Heath) I'm seeing section 24 in action. Lots of BTL landlords have flats simultaneously for sale and to let and then (sometimes) for sale with tenants in situ. All have bought in the last ten years. None are ltd companies. Many seem to have mortgages with Lloyds for some reason. And the market for such flats with tenants in situ appears to be completely dead. Can you post any Rightmove links to examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Jurassic Bland said: Lloyds group has the biggest stock of buy-to-let lending of any UK banking group, currently about £41bn down from a peak of about £55bn in 2016; the whole market is probably about the £250bn mark. The Lloyds group buy-to-let lender is BM Solutions. Interesting that Lloyds' shotgun marriage to HBOS didn't deter them from getting further into BTL. 21 minutes ago, Ah-so said: Can you post any Rightmove links to examples? https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55585218.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-73017722.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-73550162.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, Will! said: Interesting that Lloyds' shotgun marriage to HBOS didn't deter them from getting further into BTL. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55585218.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-73017722.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-73550162.html Thanks. The BTL lending is still done largely through the Halifax arm (under the BM brand name). BTL did not bring down HBOS, but rather it was crazy corporate lending that did for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop321 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 21 hours ago, winkie said: Been delving a bit.....people in the know, doing the sums......saying BTL is no longer viable when leveraged debt is having to play the main source of purchase......the rents will no longer pay, made my day. They are right. And if you have a primary income from a job you can be HRT and impacted really quickly. the unincorporated portfolio landlord with debt is dead. Soon you will be fighting the likes of me (well the old me) for houses and that's a real quick battle. If anyone is remotely interested in a property at more than half the asking price (after allowing for a fall as well) then I would walk. Yep, if it ain't stolen I ain't buying. And that's the difference to the market the modern BTL has had. Numpties paying retail prices. Last house I bought was 3 flats in a town centre for £210k. The same day the neighbouring mirror image house which was knackered sold for £405k. The big crack in mine and the 'painted roof?' put people off. £10k sorted it and included a new slate roof. We need a decent collapse then those who want to buy a house to live in can get one. My son is waiting....he will step in way before I would but that's fine because he wants a home for his own family. Been through this before and buying our home in 1991/2 was a dream. Prices 'generally' collapsed but that hides some real deals. Hopefully some distressed sellers soon and rest assured the 'cash rich' investors won't step in for many many years. Property is a hassle and needs to be silly cheap before professional investors buy.? Pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Pop321 said: Numpties paying retail prices. Spot on. The idiocy of mug punter buy-to-let summed up in four words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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