crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Not good enough. If people are this worried, then there is absolutely no guarantee is there? You seem to attribute a level of competence to this government - despite all the evidence of how incredibly stupid they are. I don't have an iota of faith, not an atom. Tell these people all over the web worrying to get a grip. They too, seem to have no confidence in the government. Total and utter rubbish. If there is one thing that will be guaranteed in any period of turbulence it's medical supplies and any blood curdling talk to the contrary is utter nonsense. Hysterical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, crouch said: This is the video: See from 20 secs in when he says "there are a number of economic factors in play....". It is a reasonable assumption that some of those factors are not Brexit related - they may be seasonable - so he was saying that food prices fluctuate for other reasons - which they do. It constantly amazes me how desperate you guys are to divert and offload the blame. You are citing Gove in counter-argument ????????? The lying little Kermit of Murdoch? Jesus, scientologist followers are so lost to the cause - beyond redemption. Tell me, what other causes might lead to big problems at Dover? https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-crisis-govt-analysis-suggests-chaos-at-dover-in-event-of-no-deal-departure-11800263 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/02/leaked-no-deal-report-says-lorries-could-face-48-hour-delays-at-dover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, crouch said: Total and utter rubbish. If there is one thing that will be guaranteed in any period of turbulence it's medical supplies and any blood curdling talk to the contrary is utter nonsense. Hysterical. Prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Canadian Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, crouch said: Total and utter rubbish. If there is one thing that will be guaranteed in any period of turbulence it's medical supplies and any blood curdling talk to the contrary is utter nonsense. Maybe so - but one does have to question the wisdom of a course of action that is so disruptive that it may well require emergency measures to ensure that what are literally "life and death" supplies remain available. The guys who promised us "the easiest deal in history" are now promising "we'll keep the lights and and somehow get medicines in" and we're supposed to be grateful. Smells like a bait and switch to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, jonb2 said: From the horse's mouth. But he MUST be lying of course. https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/no-deal-brexit-will-undoubtedly-kill-someone-gp/ He is a gp. If it was an interview with someone senior on the procurement side of the NHS then I'd give that more credibility. He isn't lying; he's speculating. In fact he's just like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, crouch said: Yet again you post items that imply that something has happened when it has not. Do you honestly, really definitely, believe that the government would not ensure medical supplies in the event of a no deal Brexit, give absolute top priority, would even use the air force to ensure supplies? Really? Really? Really? Can you imagine the utter furore that would explode if that were so? To repeat: do you really, honestly believe that the government would be so galactically stupid as to not ensure medical supplies as a top priority? Really? Really? Really? I can reassure them 100% - 100% - that they will get their medication. Get a grip. This post is the clearest example yet that you are suffering from exceptionalist delusions. Crises where the state cannot cope do happen, and there is no British magic that says it cannot happen here, especially if the government is so galactically stupid as to instigate one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Prove it. I'll prove it by the same method that you prove to me that we will be short of medical supplies in the event of a no deal Brexit. You first as you are making the assertions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said: Maybe so - but one does have to question the wisdom of a course of action that is so disruptive that it may well require emergency measures to ensure that what are literally "life and death" supplies remain available. You'll get no argument from me on this point; it's the theatre of the absurd but exceptional times call for exceptional measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, crouch said: You'll get no argument from me on this point; it's the theatre of the absurd but exceptional times call for exceptional measures. Do I take from that that you believe there is a 0% chance we will leave with No Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Canadian Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, crouch said: You'll get no argument from me on this point; it's the theatre of the absurd but self inflicted exceptional times call for exceptional measures, and some serious thinking about what the hell we are doing. Corrected for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: This post is the clearest example yet that you are suffering from exceptionalist delusions. Crises where the state cannot cope do happen, and there is no British magic that says it cannot happen here, especially if the government is so galactically stupid as to instigate one. "Exceptionist delusions"? Absolute nonsense! Are you suggesting that in similar circumstances that it's not the duty of the government to guarantee medical supplies? If it were the German or Dutch government would they react any differently? Of course not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Do I take from that that you believe there is a 0% chance we will leave with No Deal? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Get Ready For Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said: Corrected for you. Well in fact it's not really true that it is self inflicted. A deal has been negotiated, has not passed Parliament along with everything else in the last couple of years. So Parliament has not be able to agree on anything. So no deal is the default. It seems stretching it a bit to call it self inflicted but it is a failure of both government and Parliament to agree on a way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, crouch said: "Exceptionist delusions"? Absolute nonsense! Are you suggesting that in similar circumstances that it's not the duty of the government to guarantee medical supplies? If it were the German or Dutch government would they react any differently? Of course not! I don't think you've every experienced state failure, have you? If you had, you might be a bit more small-c conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, crouch said: I'll prove it by the same method that you prove to me that we will be short of medical supplies in the event of a no deal Brexit. You first as you are making the assertions. You still don't get it. There is a Tsunami of experts saying the government are not competent in preparation. There are people with medical condtions who have not been guaranteed by the government that they will get their critical medications. So it's a bit like putting up a Sumo wrestler against a 5 years old girl in a contest and saying there is no evidence the girl won't win. Isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: I don't think you've every experienced state failure, have you? If you had, you might be a bit more small-c conservative. What has that got to do with anything? I was referring to the duties of government not my personal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Quote 20% fall in house prices ‘not out of the question’ after no-deal Brexit House prices could plummet by as much as 20% after a no-deal Brexit, with the biggest collapses likely to hit London and Northern Ireland. KPMG warned that the ensuing turbulence would make it “impossible” for the government to achieve its housing delivery targets. “A no-deal Brexit will see households’ finances more under strain, with any rises in earnings likely to be more subdued and higher inflation depressing their purchasing power even further.” That, coupled with rising unemployment and a decline in confidence could see people holding off on making financial commitments — which would “trigger a larger correction in house prices." Yahoo Just in time for information campaign urging the public to "get ready for Brexit" has been launched by the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: I don't think you've every experienced state failure, have you? If you had, you might be a bit more small-c conservative. Ironic too that we will depend on humanitarian aid from the EU for our essential supplies. You know - the same dictatorship of Europe. The Gulag system. The New Third Reich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, rollover said: 20% fall in house prices ‘not out of the question’ after no-deal Brexit Good, that will make it much easier for the transfer of our property into the hands of foreigners. Jacob Rees Mogg's plan is working out. I am sure he'll make a killing. Fancy having whole streets under a Chinese landlord. Taking back control my a r s e. Edited September 2, 2019 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, crouch said: What has that got to do with anything? I was referring to the duties of government not my personal experience. Governments can and do fail in their duties. You seem to think this can't happen in Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, jonb2 said: You still don't get it. There is a Tsunami of experts saying the government are not competent in preparation. There are people with medical condtions who have not been guaranteed by the government that they will get their critical medications. So it's a bit like putting up a Sumo wrestler against a 5 years old girl in a contest and saying there is no evidence the girl won't win. Isn't it? Oh dear! So this sort of thing is of no account: https://mapbiopharma.com/2019/08/uk-government-announces-new-service-to-ensure-supply-of-medicines-through-brexit/ Huge numbers will suffer and many will die and it's all lies and obfuscation and PR. Hysterical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Not good enough. If people are this worried, then there is absolutely no guarantee is there? You seem to attribute a level of competence to this government - despite all the evidence of how incredibly stupid they are. I don't have an iota of faith, not an atom. Tell these people all over the web worrying to get a grip. They too, seem to have no confidence in the government. Go on then, how big is the risk to how many people? You need more than "it might happen" to avoid accusations of emotional blackmail, an approach that's often been used to scare or guilt trip people in to line. It's fun to see Remainers harp on about empathy when they demonstrate an utter lack of that ability when faced with opinions and values that aren't exactly in alignment with their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, thecrashingisles said: Governments can and do fail in their duties. You seem to think this can't happen in Britain. Many things can happen including a failure of government; only a fool thinks otherwise. I do think this can happen in Britain but not on this occasion and not in this respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, crouch said: Many things can happen including a failure of government; only a fool thinks otherwise. I do think this can happen in Britain but not on this occasion and not in this respect. Are you confident the government could simultaneously cope with civil disorder, outbreaks of violence in Northern Ireland, a Catalonia-style situation in Scotland, significant logistical disruption impacting the delivery of food and medicine and an economic shock from a string of non-viable businesses collapsing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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