Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[ZeroSumGame]

Just now, GrizzlyDave said:

God speed - hope it works out!

All the best.

There's  tons of English people moving up to Caledonia. You must've been to Edinburgh?

 

[pig]

I thought it was a gold lift  -  turns out it was a Russian goldmine.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-brexit-backer-arron-bankss-golden-kremlin-connection-7nbwc7m58

[ZeroSumGame]

How's that FTA agreement with  Trump getting on?

Quote

Trump backs out of joint G7 communique after accusing 'meek and mild' Trudeau of 'false statements'

Only about ten minutes ago he was bestest mates with Trudeau. any updates on Maybot or Fox?

[thecrashingisles]

4 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You could write a book answering that.

In general the EU is exceptionally slow to respond in a crisis. I think it is due to it not being one thing or another. It’s not a collection of sovereign independent states, or a single sovereign state of territories. As a consequence crisis such as Greece, Migrants, and now trade wars, the EU looks to be caught trousers down not really knowing what to do. Now I completely agree with Verhofstad that what is needed is more integration, the USofE. I think I’ve been pretty clear that for me that is unacceptable. It worked better when it was just the EEC, I would be happy with pre Lisbon.

So your criticism is that the EU doesn't get involved in things that aren't its business?  How would scaling back the EU improve matters?

[GrizzlyDave]

3 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

So your criticism is that the EU doesn't get involved in things that aren't its business?  How would scaling back the EU improve matters?

It’s in an difficult phase of evolution - not yet in control enough to be fully in control (and for it to work in an agile manner).

Scaling things back would force independent action. We saw a bit of that with the migrant crisis - putting up reactionary border fences. I’m not condoning it; just pointing out that the actions were taken in great frustration because very little action was happening.

As for Greece - the EU and a ECB has a huge part to play (Varoufakis says as much).

The delayed and distant response to Catalonian citizens being assaulted by riot police simply for exercising a democratic right. No I think events have shown the EU in it’s true colours. All it cares about is the protecting and continuing the project. Citizens are an afterthought. 

 

[Guest]

October general election anyone?

[GrizzlyDave]

1 minute ago, inbruges said:

October general election anyone?

I’m up for it - but you need to ask Brenda from Bristol...

[GrizzlyDave]

14 hours ago, Tulip_mania said:

A point I've never quite seen clarified is while EEA membership would allow free movement of labour, it wouldn't carry common citizenship. So would someone from an EEA country working in the UK be entitled to Housing Benefit & Tax Credits etc. under EEA rules?

I say this as someone who works with a lot of EU citizens who pay tax and claim no benefits in this country, it's more an academic interest than a sign that I've started reading the Daily Mail.

EEA citizens are entitled to JSA if they are deemed residents - for up to a period of 9 months.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-and-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-claiming-benefits-as-a-jobseeker/

EEA citizens are not entitled to housing benefit.

http://www.housing-rights.info/02_4_EEA_workers.php

EEA citizens are entitled to working tax credits and child benefit (I think).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/502183/HM_REVENUE_AND_CUSTOMS_-_Ad_Hoc_Stats_Release_-_EEA_Nationals_TC_Entitlement.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-move-to-uk

Edited June 10, 2018 by GrizzlyDave

[jonb2]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeting?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Has anyone noticed we hear less from the Brexit cheerleaders these days?

Not much noise from any of them - apart from Boris who's a non-stop terminator machine of self-worship.

Even Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail has stepped down into obscurity. I think they must be sh*tting themselves about the incoming sh*tsorm of blame.

[HairyOb1]

14 hours ago, jonb2 said:

I am sorry he went, as his heart is probably in the right place. But this syndrome of trusting the nationalist's empty shout gets my goat. I would have thought that someone called Pitchfork would uphold the rights of the working man.

Whilst I can be an utter dickstick at times.  He couldn't see how he would come up with a preposition, which when rebuffed, he'd alter slightly. then come back, rinse and repeat until his end argument was so far away from his original one, it was a completely different one.  

But yes, got to say he was passionate about his position, but, well, aren't we all?

1 hour ago, inbruges said:

October general election anyone?

I am slightly concerned about the latest poll meaning we'd get more May, and if there's one thing that would get me moving abroad and retiring sooner, rather than later, it's another Conservative government.

5 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeting?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Has anyone noticed we hear less from the Brexit cheerleaders these days?

Not much noise from any of them - apart from Boris who's a non-stop terminator machine of self-worship.

Even Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail has stepped down into obscurity. I think they must be sh*tting themselves about the incoming sh*tsorm of blame.

I was saying this the other day, the only things they are saying now, are rebuttals to what they said before, in order to protect themselves when the SHTF

I can't recall who said it, but if things do get that bad, these guys are going to need protection.

[GrizzlyDave]

12 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Whilst I can be an utter dickstick at times.  He couldn't see how he would come up with a preposition, which when rebuffed, he'd alter slightly. then come back, rinse and repeat until his end argument was so far away from his original one, it was a completely different one.  

But yes, got to say he was passionate about his position, but, well, aren't we all?

I am slightly concerned about the latest poll meaning we'd get more May, and if there's one thing that would get me moving abroad and retiring sooner, rather than later, it's another Conservative government.

I was saying this the other day, the only things they are saying now, are rebuttals to what they said before, in order to protect themselves when the SHTF

I can't recall who said it, but if things do get that bad, these guys are going to need protection.

What’s to be said that hasn’t already been said. No need to keep going on about it like a broken record.

[HairyOb1]

3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

What’s to be said that hasn’t already been said. No need to keep going on about it like a broken record.

?

[GrizzlyDave]

2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

?

You know what I mean Harry. ?

There’s no need for constant brexit cheering; and the whole EEA thing clearly is only going to kick in after March.

[cnick]

14 hours ago, jonb2 said:

I think this is a good point. Much as I love the concept of the EU - this is one of its major failings right now. It's an Achilles Heel for them. Their intentions are a lot more worthy than our lot, but the ivory tower syndrome is dangerous for any group of leaders. There is still the disconnect.

I think there ought to be a new method beyond having people geographically centralised in power. Whenever you watch a sci-fi movie they have holograms, in earlier group meetings on screen, like a James Bond villain get together - there were sometimes multi-screens. Surely representatives could get into the remote-working swing?

Yes, but please......don't forget the old phrase .... 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

??

[cnick]

36 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

slightly concerned about the latest poll meaning we'd get more May, and if there's one thing that would get me moving abroad and retiring sooner, rather than later, it's another Conservative government.

 

But what if the conservative party suddenly, miraculously, became ...conservative.... ie it advocated living within our means ....... rather than living within the means of future generations?.....aka, todays young.... might that sway you?

[thehowler]

42 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Has anyone noticed we hear less from the Brexit cheerleaders these days?

What I've noticed is that remainers talk about Brexit a lot more than leavers. I think many remainers believe if they can only maintain the impending-disaster rhetoric they might stop it happening. But they're mainly talking to each other, as on this thread, with its core of five or six resolute Europhiles visited by the occasional leaver or bemused neutral. The leavers I come across tend to be indifferent, bored, resigned or just waiting for March 19.

[cnick]

3 minutes ago, thehowler said:

What I've noticed is that remainers talk about Brexit a lot more than leavers. I think many remainers believe if they can only maintain the impending-disaster rhetoric they might stop it happening. But they're mainly talking to each other, as on this thread, with its core of five or six resolute Europhiles visited by the occasional leaver or bemused neutral. The leavers I come across tend to be indifferent, bored, resigned or just waiting for March 19.

I'm thinking of becoming remainer..... just to satisfy my curiosity as to what will happen to the EU project without brexit to blame.

[thehowler]

26 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

There’s no need for constant brexit cheering; and the whole EEA thing clearly is only going to kick in after March.

Yeah, there's no hurry for May and her negotiating team - if she can stay in as leader!

But witness the emergency cabinet gathering she's promised, so urgent that it will happen some time in July. I don't think the Brits ever planned to sign off on a transition plan until October or maybe even end of the year. As things get later with us for no deal, they also start to pose a danger for the EU and its budget. Perhaps May has calculated that the EU will agree at the last minute to our broad implementation requests, take the money and then we can spend the following 20 months talking about trade. All leavers should know they won't talk to a EU member state about trade, so it's despairingly dull when leaver politicos complain about wanting to start talking about trade at once.

[HairyOb1]

29 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

You know what I mean Harry. ?

There’s no need for constant brexit cheering; and the whole EEA thing clearly is only going to kick in after March.

Ah yes, well I am hoping for a little more than that

10 minutes ago, cnick said:

But what if the conservative party suddenly, miraculously, became ...conservative.... ie it advocated living within our means ....... rather than living within the means of future generations?.....aka, todays young.... might that sway you?

They've dicked everyone, but more than anyone else, the young.  I think the way they are going, if they lose an election, they'll have hell trying to get back in.,

9 minutes ago, thehowler said:

What I've noticed is that remainers talk about Brexit a lot more than leavers. I think many remainers believe if they can only maintain the impending-disaster rhetoric they might stop it happening. But they're mainly talking to each other, as on this thread, with its core of five or six resolute Europhiles visited by the occasional leaver or bemused neutral. The leavers I come across tend to be indifferent, bored, resigned or just waiting for March 19.

What I have noticed about leavers, is that mainly they cannot give any benefits of leaving, preferring to sit back and see what happens with their blind faith in the politicians making sure it's all tickety boo come April 2019.

2 minutes ago, cnick said:

I'm thinking of becoming remainer..... just to satisfy my curiosity as to what will happen to the EU project without brexit to blame.

They're getting on fine planning without us, in fact, I actually think Brexit will bring them to ever closer union. And when we rejoin, which is nailed on, if we do actually leave in any meaningful way, it will be inside Schengen, The Euro, the EU army, the lot.  So, in one way, I'll get some version of what I want in any event.

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, thehowler said:

Yeah, there's no hurry for May and her negotiating team - if she can stay in as leader!

But witness the emergency cabinet gathering she's promised, so urgent that it will happen some time in July. I don't think the Brits ever planned to sign off on a transition plan until October or maybe even end of the year. As things get later with us for no deal, they also start to pose a danger for the EU and its budget. Perhaps May has calculated that the EU will agree at the last minute to our broad implementation requests, take the money and then we can spend the following 20 months talking about trade. All leavers should know they won't talk to a EU member state about trade, so it's despairingly dull when leaver politicos complain about wanting to start talking about trade at once.

1.  That's already plumbed in now.

2.  It wouldn't surprise me if she has made this calculation, as it would be in line with all pop the other desperately stupid things they've tried.  We will not be allowed to leave in better shape than we were inside, and I am still surprised that some leavers still believe we'll get what we want out of the deal, for there's no way logically, philosophically or realistically we can.

[jonb2]

26 minutes ago, thehowler said:

What I've noticed is that remainers talk about Brexit a lot more than leavers. I think many remainers believe if they can only maintain the impending-disaster rhetoric they might stop it happening. But they're mainly talking to each other, as on this thread, with its core of five or six resolute Europhiles visited by the occasional leaver or bemused neutral. The leavers I come across tend to be indifferent, bored, resigned or just waiting for March 19.

Ah yes Howler, that's because the new series of Love Island comes out next March.

[pig]

25 minutes ago, thehowler said:

What I've noticed is that remainers talk about Brexit a lot more than leavers. I think many remainers believe if they can only maintain the impending-disaster rhetoric they might stop it happening. But they're mainly talking to each other, as on this thread, with its core of five or six resolute Europhiles visited by the occasional leaver or bemused neutral. The leavers I come across tend to be indifferent, bored, resigned or just waiting for March 19.

According to weekend news Isabel Oakeshot  was at the extreme end of this - sitting silent on inconvenient evidence but compelled to slag off  reporters for fear her precious Brexit might be compromised.

Diifficult to imagine that kind of Leaver ever engaged in honest democratic debate.

 

[GrizzlyDave]

3 minutes ago, pig said:

According to weekend news Isabel Oakeshot  was at the extreme end of this - sitting silent on inconvenient evidence but compelled to slag off  reporters for fear her precious Brexit might be compromised.

Diifficult to imagine that kind of Leaver ever engaged in honest democratic debate.

 

We like Isabel. top brexit totty.

[HairyOb1]

10 minutes ago, pig said:

According to weekend news Isabel Oakeshot  was at the extreme end of this - sitting silent on inconvenient evidence but compelled to slag off  reporters for fear her precious Brexit might be compromised.

Diifficult to imagine that kind of Leaver ever engaged in honest democratic debate.

Just catching up on this on Twitter.  Wow.  Conservatives knew too...

Even the mail has turned remain, looking at the headline.

Hannan:

Britain is dangerously close to a Brexit deal that is worse than staying or leaving the EU, writes @DanielJHannan

It's all going on!

Edited June 10, 2018 by HairyOb1

[pig]

5 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

We like Isabel. top brexit totty.

You got me there Grizzly lol that’s a below the belt defence ... but ahem the sh1t has hit the fan over this. I’d imagine she’s spending today working up an epic excuse.