HairyOb1 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Aye - not all of us make it through the sweet cheeks stage. Ok, sorry, but that made me laugh, and I am now ashamed of myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: Why not? People voted by a huge majority in favour in 1975 when monetary union was discussed as being part of the plan. Aren't people allowed to change their mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Aren't people allowed to change their mind? Works both ways Dave B. A quote from another forum (not mine): "people aren't allowed to change their mind, regardless of any new evidence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Works both ways Dave B. A quote from another forum (not mine): "people aren't allowed to change their mind, regardless of any new evidence". I was being slightly ironic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, thehowler said: Oh, how they come and go. It takes a rare kind of mettle to hold the course here. I am sorry he went, as his heart is probably in the right place. But this syndrome of trusting the nationalist's empty shout gets my goat. I would have thought that someone called Pitchfork would uphold the rights of the working man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave Beans said: I was being slightly ironic... I know you were DB. I just couldn't find anywhere to use the quote - so hung it on the end of your irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip_mania Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 A point I've never quite seen clarified is while EEA membership would allow free movement of labour, it wouldn't carry common citizenship. So would someone from an EEA country working in the UK be entitled to Housing Benefit & Tax Credits etc. under EEA rules? I say this as someone who works with a lot of EU citizens who pay tax and claim no benefits in this country, it's more an academic interest than a sign that I've started reading the Daily Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tulip_mania said: A point I've never quite seen clarified is while EEA membership would allow free movement of labour, it wouldn't carry common citizenship. So would someone from an EEA country working in the UK be entitled to Housing Benefit & Tax Credits etc. under EEA rules? I say this as someone who works with a lot of EU citizens who pay tax and claim no benefits in this country, it's more an academic interest than a sign that I've started reading the Daily Mail. I've just found a couple of links that may discuss this Tulip - they are on my to-read list: http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86896 https://moneyweek.com/britain-soft-brexit-eea-efta-carl-baudenbacher-interview/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: Forget the chart - what I said was there is huge appetite for EU reform. I don’t have huge prejudices - just recognise the EU is the incapable of reform. In all those countries mentioned. They want reform. Power to the people. ? I think this is a good point. Much as I love the concept of the EU - this is one of its major failings right now. It's an Achilles Heel for them. Their intentions are a lot more worthy than our lot, but the ivory tower syndrome is dangerous for any group of leaders. There is still the disconnect. I think there ought to be a new method beyond having people geographically centralised in power. Whenever you watch a sci-fi movie they have holograms, in earlier group meetings on screen, like a James Bond villain get together - there were sometimes multi-screens. Surely representatives could get into the remote-working swing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Quote Britain is dangerously close to a Brexit deal that is worse than staying or leaving the EU they have found what they see as an even better option. What could be better than a humiliated Britain begging to reverse its decision? Why, a humiliated Britain that remains in the EU without votes or a veto. Telegraph I think it is win - win situation. Brexit will be delivered and the EU will be pleased as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Dave Beans said: Aren't people allowed to change their mind? It's not me placing limits on what people are allowed to think. You're the one who things the Euro can be ruled out forever based on your apparent ability to read the minds of the people in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Just now, thecrashingisles said: It's not me placing limits on what people are allowed to think. You're the one who things the Euro can be ruled out forever based on your apparent ability to read the minds of the people in the future. No indeed, but the EU aren't making it very enticing are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 5 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: Forget the chart - what I said was there is huge appetite for EU reform. I don’t have huge prejudices - just recognise the EU is the incapable of reform. In all those countries mentioned. They want reform. Power to the people. ? Which reform specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Which reform specifically? You could write a book answering that. In general the EU is exceptionally slow to respond in a crisis. I think it is due to it not being one thing or another. It’s not a collection of sovereign independent states, or a single sovereign state of territories. As a consequence crisis such as Greece, Migrants, and now trade wars, the EU looks to be caught trousers down not really knowing what to do. Now I completely agree with Verhofstad that what is needed is more integration, the USofE. I think I’ve been pretty clear that for me that is unacceptable. It worked better when it was just the EEC, I would be happy with pre Lisbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: ....., the EU looks to be caught trousers down not really knowing what to do. . You got any evidence of that? 21 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: . Now I completely agree with Verhofstad that what is needed is more integration, the USofE. I think I’ve been pretty clear that for me that is unacceptable. Isn't that a contradiction? However I do agree with GV on many points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said: You got any evidence of that? Isn't that a contradiction? However I do agree with GV on many points. Just my sofa observations. ? I think DJT is playing a blinder! Not really a contradiction; the EU either folds back to Pre Lisbon (I’d like that), or it falls forward into proper fiscal and political union (common tax, finance minister, ultimately USofE). I don’t want to be part of the USofE, and the current indecisive situation is failing the people of Europe. For that reason, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Maybot slaps down Mekom Quote Theresa May has refused to roll back her controversial “hostile environment” crackdown following the Windrush scandal, despite her own home secretary’s call for change. Indy. #BREAKFASTMEANSBREAKFAST [Fly half replaced at half time due to some real poor can kicking] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: ?Not really a contradiction; 49 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Now I completely agree with Verhofstad that what is needed is more integration, the USofE. I think I’ve been pretty clear that for me that is unacceptable. Entirely a contradiction. End of term report : should sort out opinions in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, ZeroSumGame said: End of term report : should sort out opinions in his head. You seem to find those two points a contradiction. ? What is ultimately best for the EU (more integration) and what I personally want (less integration) are separate things. Slangiva!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: You seem to find those two points a contradiction. ? What is ultimately best for the EU (more integration) and what I personally want (less integration) are separate things. Slangiva!? OK. Let's not argue semantics then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said: OK. Let's not argue semantics then. Aye. What would you like to see happen with the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Anyway.... You describe yourself as a Labour supporter, but also as a theoretical supporter of Scottish Independence. How do you square that given that Labour are the the red @rse of the Union party? Well off topic I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said: Aye. What would you like to see happen with the EU? Not a lot really. As I'll be moving there soon as you guys get your 'FREEDOM'. I'm happy with the European status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said: Anyway.... You describe yourself as a Labour supporter, but also as a theoretical supporter of Scottish Independence. How do you square that given that Labour are the the red @rse of the Union party? Well off topic I know... I guess I don’t neatly fit in a box with a meaningless little label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said: Not a lot really. As I'll be moving there soon as you guys get your 'FREEDOM'. I'm happy with the European status quo. God speed - hope it works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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