Mikhail Liebenstein Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, ccc said: Do any of those who voted remain now feel the EU is looking a bit bullying compared to what you felt before ? Genuinely interested. Not at all. It will be interesting how long the DUP put up with Theresa May attempting the reunification of Ireland albeit inadvertently. I think we’ll have a GE shortly and Brexit will be dead by Easter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Not at all. It will be interesting how long the DUP put up with Theresa May attempting the reunification of Ireland albeit inadvertently. I think we’ll have a GE shortly and Brexit will be dead by Easter. Hard brexit perhaps. But Labour will deliver soft brexit BIND... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Not at all. It will be interesting how long the DUP put up with Theresa May attempting the reunification of Ireland albeit inadvertently. I think we’ll have a GE shortly and Brexit will be dead by Easter. You still clinging to this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Riedquat said: "Keep having votes until you get the result you want" isn't democracy, and I wonder how anyone can claim it is with a straight face. It's only democracy if there's another vote again after that one, and we keep having them forever. That is, of course, completely impractical. On an issue like the EU about once per generation is probably about right for balancing democracy against practicality. Oh I see, a special make-it-up-as-you-go-along democracy to force your specifically unchanging view on everybody else ? I like it! where can I get me some of that !? My levels of authoritarianism are pathetic - I’d cave in to allowing people to vote on facts and circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: 14.20pm Lexit? – Sadiq Khan says London could strike an Ireland-style deal Following similar calls from Scottish Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon, Sadiq Khan has implied London could seek to remain in the Customs Union and Single Market. Taking to Twitter, he wrote: “Huge ramifications for London if Theresa May has conceded that it's possible for part of the UK to remain within the single market and customs union after Brexit. “Londoners overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU and a similar deal here could protect tens of thousands of jobs.” Holy Crap. That is an hilarious article, well, situation if true. And Im loving that the leave voting welsh are clamouring to stay in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, ccc said: Do any of those who voted remain now feel the EU is looking a bit bullying compared to what you felt before ? Genuinely interested. No because, as I said from the outset, this is not a negotiation. All that is happening is that the lies that were told to the British public by the Leavers to win the vote are gradually being exposed. Anyway how does the being bullied meme fit with the Leavers vision that the UK is some sort of Global superpower capable of existing outside any of the big trade blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: No because, as I said from the outset, this is not a negotiation. All that is happening is that the lies that were told to the British public by the Leavers to win the vote are gradually being exposed. Anyway how does the being bullied meme fit with the Leavers vision that the UK is some sort of Global superpower capable of existing outside any of the big trade blocks. It is a negotiation. You know - like - for example - both sides are negotiating right now as we type ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Not childish or pig-headed? Dream on. Yes, it's reality, the reality that the EU is run by childish pig-headed types. When someone is only interested in saying "these are the rules", is not interested in looking at whether it makes sense to change them or not, and can only resort to parroting dogma as a defence you're dealing with people you're better away from. Whilst you can fairly put a lot of the blame for dislike at the feet of the UK's government the EU itself has done nothing to counteract that, and continues to behave in a manner that'll just build ever-increasing resentment. It doesn't make sense to the EU to change the rules, so they are not going to. Nothing childish or pig-headed about that. Anyway what rules would they change, still nobody knows what the UK government actually wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The guys title is "Chief negotiator" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Barnier Seriously - some of the folk on here have actually been driven insane by Brexit. Fascinating to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, ccc said: It is a negotiation. You know - like - for example - both sides are negotiating right now as we type ? Really? The sort of negotiation where one party askes for the moon stamps its foot for a while and then accepts what was always on offer, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Really? The sort of negotiation where one party askes for the moon stamps its foot for a while and then accepts what was always on offer, perhaps. It's a negotiation. To say it isn't shows you are disconnected from reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryrot Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, pig said: 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: 14.20pm Lexit? – Sadiq Khan says London could strike an Ireland-style deal Following similar calls from Scottish Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon, Sadiq Khan has implied London could seek to remain in the Customs Union and Single Market. Taking to Twitter, he wrote: “Huge ramifications for London if Theresa May has conceded that it's possible for part of the UK to remain within the single market and customs union after Brexit. “Londoners overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU and a similar deal here could protect tens of thousands of jobs.” Holy Crap. That is an hilarious article, well, situation if true. And Im loving that the leave voting welsh are clamouring to stay in. Of course its not true. Sadiq is lying and Sturgeon fibbing https://order-order.com/2017/12/04/sadiq-sturgeon-deliberately-misleading/ But what else did you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RentingForever Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, ccc said: Do any of those who voted remain now feel the EU is looking a bit bullying compared to what you felt before ? Genuinely interested. Yes, but it's exactly to be expected. I never had any illusions that the EU were hard negotiators with countries outside the club, to put it mildy. And that's the position we're now in . Edited December 4, 2017 by RentingForever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: No. The UK voted to leave and the EU is dealing with that as best they can. I can not fathom how people think they can leave a club but the club want them in so much that they will give them all the things that come with membership without the duties. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯ Well if you have supported other members of the club who couldn't actually afford to be in it for the past 4 decades you might expect them to be grateful of your generosity. Clearly not. ****** them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, RentingForever said: Yes, but it's exactly to be expected. I never had any illusions that the EU were hard negotiators with countries outside the club, to put it mildy. And that's the position we're now in . We aren't in negotiations apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: No. The UK voted to leave and the EU is dealing with that as best they can. I can not fathom how people think they can leave a club but the club want them in so much that they will give them all the things that come with membership without the duties. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯ Keep all the club house bingo and car key swapping to members, and let associates simply pay per play? Bb that excludes giving a lift to the groundkeepers wife to and from the course, and still allows us to play on other courses when and how we damn well like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: May left the room for 20 minutes to talk to the DUP and when she came back the deal was off. Jesus how is she supposed to negotiate when she has to run everything past the DUP? Sounds like democracy - what’s the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 41 minutes ago, pig said: Oh I see, a special make-it-up-as-you-go-along democracy to force your specifically unchanging view on everybody else ? I like it! where can I get me some of that !? My levels of authoritarianism are pathetic - I’d cave in to allowing people to vote on facts and circumstances. If there was any sense in that post it's beyond my ability to find it. All I am seeing from you lot is "democracy means keep voting until we get the result that I want." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: No not at all. This is politics, this isn't friendship. Even the 'special relationship' with the US is utter ********. If you expect politicians to be grateful you are sorely mistaken. If we paid so much in and they should be so grateful why is May over there sucking on Junker's junk? Because they never explain that in fact we get a lot out, like the ability to sell them our services without duties... Because May is useless ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: Jesus how is she supposed to negotiate when she has to run everything past the DUP? Well the DUP have to run everything past Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: No. The UK voted to leave and the EU is dealing with that as best they can. I can not fathom how people think they can leave a club but the club want them in so much that they will give them all the things that come with membership without the duties. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯ More of a cult than a club, where outsiders aren't allowed to have anything to do with it. Want to go out for a drink with a couple of cult members, and pay for a round when it's your turn? No chance, you're not in it! The argument that you should need to be in for various dealings hasn't been made (beyond the "because it is written, don't think about it" level). There needs to be a distinction between things that should essentially be viewed as a service you get in return for paying for membership and things that are mutually beneficial anyway, Edited December 4, 2017 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, TwoTearsInABucket said: Really dude? It's an economic and social pact. You are either incredibly stupid or wilfully trying to bend and twist things to suit your feelings. So are you stupid or a troll? The EU is not a cult. What irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, TwoTearsInABucket said: She is stuck in much the same bind (with the addition of no majority) that any UK leader would be in. Given a shitty stick and told to make magic. I absolutely loathe and detest May. And I am enjoying the schadenfreude, But there would be cross party numbers for an open vote to endorse a soft brexit (all the UK stays in the CU and SM)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, ccc said: It's a negotiation. To say it isn't shows you are disconnected from reality. Ok, list the concessions the EU has had to make to date in this "negotiation". If you cannot think of any that should be a clue as to the true nature of the A50 process. As the chap who wrote the A50 process said, It was specifically written to makes the leaving state a supplicant in a process controlled by the remaining 27. I suppose in your over literal world you could call it a negotiation but only in the same way a US execution is a negotiation, as you do get to choose your last breakfast, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 22 minutes ago, ccc said: Well if you have supported other members of the club who couldn't actually afford to be in it for the past 4 decades you might expect them to be grateful of your generosity. Clearly not. ****** them. Generosity? We didn't even pay our full subs while we were in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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