Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[pig]

5 hours ago, Tapori said:

How would the immigration control interact with FoM?

Theres been a fair bit on this thread, and ditto a few clicks away on the internet.

Heres a start from last year:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-blame-the-uk-_b_13120104.html

It contains a references a more detailed (n.b. wordpress) article that summarises thus:

POWER 1 – RESTRICTION/STOPPING OF EU MIGRATION FROM NEW MEMBER COUNTRIES.

POWER 2 – ABILITY TO PROSECUTE BENEFIT FRAUD AND “WELFARE TOURISM” BY EU MIGRANTS

POWER 3 – ABILITY TO RETURN EU MIGRANTS TO HOME COUNTRY IF NOT “ECONOMICALLY ACTIVE” AFTER 3 MONTHS

POWER 4 – EMERGENCY BRAKE ON WELFARE PAYMENTS

But to do all that you'd have to register/monitor incoming EU citizens.

Which obviously the government couldn't be arsed doing - clearly much better to rile up the population with obnoxious adverts on vans.

[smash]

Account suspension test.

[HairyOb1]

8 minutes ago, smash said:

Account suspension test.

[sPinwheel]

19 minutes ago, smash said:

Account suspension test.

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said:

How on earth it is even similar?  One is a referendum that can be changed, and more likely will the more pressure is put on government, and the other is not worrying about religious fanatics killing me and my family?

Fkcu me you lot are desperate at times.

So the former should be even less to worry about for you.

Quote

Remember, please, that I have a European Passport and being European means something to me.  This isn't about wondering the streets of London biting my nails scared of the next white van that comes around the corner.  Idiotic, at best, to even attempt to link it.

I never said that it was. Indeed I was saying that the worry about terrorism is disproportionate - I was actually mostly agreeing with you on that part! I know being European means something to you, and that's the part of your argument that I respect, even though it doesn't mean anything to me.

 

edit: And not suspended

Edited October 19, 2017 by Riedquat

[HairyOb1]

20 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

So the former should be even less to worry about for you.

I never said that it was. Indeed I was saying that the worry about terrorism is disproportionate - I was actually mostly agreeing with you on that part! I know being European means something to you, and that's the part of your argument that I respect, even though it doesn't mean anything to me.

 

edit: And not suspended

I'm not worried about Brexit, I am hoping to help change it, in any way shape or form, as it is central to my own personal ideology.  Dying from a suicide vest at my bbq having befriended lovely Muslims whom I both admire and respect (if they're watching, more chicken and dhal please) is not only less likely to happen than the Pope coming out as my own personal stalker, but also ludicrously different than wanting to help change Brexit in any way shape or form: I am sure you understand the concept of 'sphere of influence'?

Look, you come across as one of the wiser old heads here, what I am attempting to say, is that you shouldn't be trying to link something very personal to me, to something I have utterly no control over; I care about brexit in that I can hope to change it.  I cannot change fundamentalism, in any way shape or form and the two, imo, are mutually exclusive.  apologies for the idiotic comment, but they're really so far apart as to be silly to link together in any shape or form.

Edited October 19, 2017 by HairyOb1

[HairyOb1]

Joe Maugham QC - Government paper on leaving the EU on WTO terms.

I'd love to add to this, but read the thread, I know Joe is a Remai(oa)ner, but he's good value on analysis.

[smash]

Is Jacob Rees Mogg a religious fundamentalist? I mean what's all this stuff he's going on about some place called the Garden of Eden? I'm no philosopher but I've read a bit about these ideas and stuff, apparently been going on for thousands of years. So Jacob reckons he's got Free Will cracked. He's awesome. Socrates, and Heiddegger tremble....

 

But is Jacob a religious fundamentalist?

 

 

 

[HairyOb1]

1 minute ago, smash said:

Is Jacob Rees Mogg a religious fundamentalist? I mean what's all this stuff he's going on about some place called the Garden of Eden? I'm no philosopher but I've read a bit about these ideas and stuff, apparently been going on for thousands of years. So Jacob reckons he's got Free Will cracked. He's awesome. Socrates, and Heiddegger tremble....

 

But is Jacob a religious fundamentalist?

 

 

 

Look, he';s a true believer, doesn't think women bodies are their own, thinks god presents life and, oh fkcu me, he's had another kid called Leresotis, or Laraquemequis,  or Starvehtepoor or something

[rollover]

 

Quote

 

British Lawmaker Calls for Inquiry Into Suspicions of Russian Role in ‘Brexit’

An opposition lawmaker called on the British government on Thursday to investigate suspicions of Russian interference in Britain’s referendum on quitting the European Union. Speaking in Parliament, the lawmaker, Ben Bradshaw of the Labour Party, said there was “widespread concern over foreign, and particularly Russian, interference in Western democracies.” He asked for assurances that “all the resources spent in the referendum campaign were from permissible sources.” NYT

 

Why not to blame Putin.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

Away from all this wild eyed xenophobia, here's a tweet from the CEO of Goldmans Sachs:

Just left Frankfurt. Great meetings, great weather, really enjoyed it. Good, because I'll be spending a lot more time there. #Brexit (Lloyd Blankfein)

 

Paging jonb2, paging jonb2: Brexit makes US Banksters **** off - at least a little bit: Yay!

[HairyOb1]

1 minute ago, highYield said:

Paging jonb2, paging jonb2: Brexit makes US Banksters **** off - at least a little bit: Yay!

So you think this is good?

You do know what he;s inferring, yes?  You still think this is good?

I sometimes assume you're thinking with the best intentions of the UK economy, yet then we get to this and I am reminded of the brexiteers infliction.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

So you think this is good?

You do know what he;s inferring, yes?  You still think this is good?

I sometimes assume you're thinking with the best intentions of the UK economy, yet then we get to this and I am reminded of the brexiteers infliction.

I think that the financialisation of the UK over the past few decades has been a bad thing for the 99% who have to work to acquire capital.

Happy to see any financialisers spending less time here financialising.

[HairyOb1]

 

3 minutes ago, highYield said:

I think that the financialisation of the UK over the past few decades has been a bad thing for the 99% who have to work to acquire capital.

Happy to see any financialisers spending less time here financialising.

Despite the hit we'll take to GDP and jobs, including peripheral jobs and their affect on peripheral support jobs and GDP, unemployment?

Edited October 19, 2017 by HairyOb1

[macca13]

12 hours ago, casual_squash said:

Rock and hard place. There is no equivalent cash cow waiting in the wings should we leave. 

If Europe's electorate so valued the EU as claimed (as the benefits so obviously outweigh the cons ) then the remaining members would have no fear to ask their electorate's to stump up more tax to pay for it. Must be worth the extra tax to do away with that annoying member state and carry on.  

Ultimately this is why a No Deal scenario is extremely likely. We will end up paying an amount because something is better than nothing. Nothing and the wheels come off. 

 

Why do the wheels come off? Is the EU making us so prosperous and happy? Nope.. so what’s to worry about.. we can reboot the farms that sit idle, restart the boats that lay dormant, invest in industry, trade with whoever we wish and sit back watching the EU Rips itself apart as they try to implement, forced migrant quotas, forced euro, forced EU army, expand their empire to Putins door causing more unrest in the world.. 

I want nothing to do with their dictatorship! 

By the way remainers, stop Brexit and you will probably end up with UKIP such will be the betrayal to the electorate.. so just get behind it! 

Most of you think Brexit voters are stupid so clearly you must know a UKIP vote backlash would be inevitable! 

[HairyOb1]

3 minutes ago, macca13 said:

Why do the wheels come off? Is the EU making us so prosperous and happy? Nope.. so what’s to worry about.. we can reboot the farms that sit idle, restart the boats that lay dormant, invest in industry, trade with whoever we wish and sit back watching the EU Rips itself apart as they try to implement, forced migrant quotas, forced euro, forced EU army, expand their empire to Putins door causing more unrest in the world.. 

I want nothing to do with their dictatorship! 

By the way remainers, stop Brexit and you will probably end up with UKIP such will be the betrayal to the electorate.. so just get behind it! 

Most of you think Brexit voters are stupid so clearly you must know a UKIP vote backlash would be inevitable! 

I'm genuinely worried about UKIP and their 1 mp, sorry, 2 mps.  Sorry, no mps.  I am not too sure of the point here now.  How many MP's, and relevance do they have?

Within a few months, their relevance will be with the myopic and right wing BNP, England first lunatics.  Kippers are a dying breed, thank the gods...

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

 

Despite the hit we'll take to GDP and jobs, including peripheral jobs and their affect on peripheral supper jobs and GDP, unemployment?

That's your guess.

My guess is that if Brexit ever happens - and TPTB are stacked up against it - and if bankers do indeed flee in decent numbers, then a reduction in the financialisation class could work very well with much more efficient allocation of resources; fewer investment bankers with their huge compounding % slices won't be the end of the world, with e.g. fintech & crowdfunding just starting up, yet not far off replacing much of the investment banks' functions at a much lower cost.

Apart from the industrial revolution, the UK's main thing, for centuries, has been pirate stuff. It's worked so far...

Edited October 19, 2017 by Guest

[HairyOb1]

4 minutes ago, highYield said:

That's your guess.

My guess is that if Brexit ever happens - and TPTB are stacked up against it - and if bankers do indeed flee in decent numbers, then a reduction in the financialisation class could work very well with much more efficient allocation of resources; fewer investment bankers with their huge compounding % slices won't be the end of the world, with e.g. fintech & crowdfunding just starting up, yet not far off replacing much of the investment banks' functions at a much lower cost.

Apart from the industrial revolution, the UK's main thing, for centuries, has been pirate stuff. It's worked so far...

Ok, but isn't the elephant in the fiscal room passporting?  No access to a market that is billions a day, which we get a cut of.  Every day?  You can talk about fintech, and crowdfunding all you like (mostly US btw), but they'll not replace what we have, currently.

The UK's main thing, aside from being in 1963, is  money, services, and we're about to check out of that particular hotel...

[macca13]

7 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

I'm genuinely worried about UKIP and their 1 mp, sorry, 2 mps.  Sorry, no mps.  I am not too sure of the point here now.  How many MP's, and relevance do they have?

Within a few months, their relevance will be with the myopic and right wing BNP, England first lunatics.  Kippers are a dying breed, thank the gods...

 

Do you have the ability to absorb text, turn it into sentences then make sense of its content?

I said, “STOP Brexit and the result would be a massive UKIP vote”

I can’t see the 17 million who voted for Brexit just excepting a statement that we are pulling out of Brexit or fudging it!  It would be a betrayal of democracy.. 

As for right/far right wing politics being a dying breed you have clearly been sleeping for the last few years.. Trump, Le Pen, Sebastian Kurtz, Geert wilders and even Nigel ferage.. I would say it’s more in the main stream than any time since WW2. As the migrant crisis deepens and crime rates soar I think it will most likely grow not dissipate.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

Ok, but isn't the elephant in the fiscal room passporting?  No access to a market that is billions a day, which we get a cut of.  Every day?  You can talk about fintech, and crowdfunding all you like (mostly US btw), but they'll not replace what we have, currently.

The UK's main thing, aside from being in 1963, is  money, services, and we're about to check out of that particular hotel...

Fiscal passporting and/or having a totally free pirate island on your doorstep, allowed to do fiscally whatever it wants? 

An interesting choice the EU has.

[Sheeple Splinter]

On 18/10/2017 at 3:28 PM, Riedquat said:

More an example of the excessive desperate measures you need to go to when you get overpopulated than anything to aspire to IMO.

Vacant space for Soylent Green processing facility (middle of photo) 

[HairyOb1]

11 minutes ago, highYield said:

Fiscal passporting and/or having a totally free pirate island on your doorstep, allowed to do fiscally whatever it wants? 

An interesting choice the EU has.

Er, no.  Apparently you have to be in the EU to trade in EU denominated trades; this isn't 1863 and lets bribe the coast guard with a bottle of rum arrrrggggghhhhh

Sorry, I should add, comically, but to trade with the EU we still have to conform to their standards too.  So we can't sudden;y bleach chicken and sell it to the Europeans

Edited October 19, 2017 by HairyOb1

[Sheeple Splinter]

On 18/10/2017 at 4:08 PM, HairyOb1 said:

On 18/10/2017 at 2:27 PM, Sheeple Splinter said:

 

The question did not ask for your views on future immigration and the explanation is clear enough in my post. You seem to think the question is trying to label you as a racist when, as I explained above, it is simply to expose the tactic of people using racist to put down inconvenient facts in a campaign or discussion.

Best not to stand in front of a mirror when your projecting.

Do you want to change your question in any way before I answer it?

Ok, that be all well and good, if it wasn't a crock of shit.

I made it very clear, that voting for an end to immigration is folly when we'll have immigration of precisely the same nature once we've left, if we ever do.   YOU, that is NOT ME, then said I had concerns about it, which I have been very clear at all times I have none, have never said I do, and never would, given my own clearly put ideology.

I merely pointed out what Will Self said had value, which it does.  Your continued obfuscation is hilarious; I get it, you don't want to be considered racist, as it's a hideous trait in a person.  However, well, your continued projecting does you no favours at all...

I'd keep away from that mirror SS, well away.

No, please answer the two questions please: Are we culturally similar to Europeans or Asians?
Are we similar to Europeans or Asians in our business culture.

Is this a wind up?

I am not asking for your rationalisation of the following quotes, simply this question:

You have posted several times about your observations regarding non-EU visa applicants e.g. Right to reside, bringing family over, undercutting wages, paying less tax... Leaving aside the advantages of the visa system, how is this any different to the Leavers' observations regarding FoM?

 

On 29/06/2017 at 7:27 PM, HairyOb1 said:

In my industry, that's so true, it's shocking.  All the EU leave, so we give tier 4 business visas to Pakistanis, Indians and Chinese to fill the gaps, whom after 4 years of working, can claim UK citizenship and bring their families over.
It's just a smokescreen really, keep their eyes on europe and don't look to Asia.
Without wanting to sound bigoted, as I am not, I do believe, culturally, we have more in common with our EU cousins than we do with our asian ones..

  On 05/09/2017 at 3:34 PM, HairyOb1 said:

Wow, you've really bought into this shite haven't you.
I work in IT.  It's not overrun with Europeans, it's overrun with Asians.  All on Tier 4 business visas, helped to stay on and demand family reunion by Indian Consultancies over here, courtesy of most of the people campaigning for Brexit, as they can dip their fingers in the pie it's created.
The fallacy is, we need immigration, so we're giving out visas like sweets in IT as we cannot supply our own folk.

  On 05/09/2017 at 3:52 PM, HairyOb1 said:

...and then claim family reunion for the 10 family members after 4 years as a right.
Controlled means a company like CCA can apply for 100 IT workers to come here on tier 4 visas, allow them to pay less tax, pay them less than the UK median, allow them to then bring in their non working family over here after 4 years, meaning the 100 is now closer to 1000 and 900 aren't working?
That's how it works, you get that don't you?  It isn't controlled.
Then they have English citizenship.  You somehow think this is managed well, and not subject to massive misuse and also good. all for your family? As I said, you're deranged.

  On 05/09/2017 at 3:59 PM, HairyOb1 said:

It is, I can assure you, one of these Indian consultancies is a client.  They ship them in, they stay, they being over their family.  I have no issues with it however, think about it. This reduces tax take, and reduces wages.But to simply put out some chronic nonsense about FOM and not understand Immigration numbers are much higher with Chinese and Indians  - well, it's crackers.
Tier 4 business visas are handed out like sweets to the global consultancies.  They do not have to pay full tax and after 4 years, they are allowed residency,which in turn allows 'family reunion'.

 

[Sheeple Splinter]

2 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

Look, he';s a true believer, doesn't think women bodies are their own, thinks god presents life ...

A conviction politician though:

Quote

Conviction politics is the practice of campaigning based on a politician's own fundamental values or ideas rather than attempting to represent an existing consensus or simply take positions that are popular in polls.

 

[HairyOb1]

24 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

You have posted several times about your observations regarding non-EU visa applicants e.g. Right to reside, bringing family over, undercutting wages, paying less tax... Leaving aside the advantages of the visa system, how is this any different to the Leavers' observations regarding FoM?

No, I have, clearly, said that I find it folly brexiteers, like yourself, are thinking they have sorted shit out by voting brexit, when the truth is that immigration will come from another source, unbridled source, once we leave, if we ever do.

These aren't observations, these are truths, meaning, you racists are all going to be pissed off when you realise you were spun further lies from the leave establishment.  

I, as I have said so may times before, don't give a fig, so have no observations, no reservations, no cares, conditions, nor worries.

I am genuinely hoping that is clear enough for you?

19 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

A conviction politician though:

Like Hitler before him as, lets be honest, Hitler was quite a conviction politician too, wasn't he?  I am sure I can rustle out a few more if you want me to, you know, to escape godwins law and all that....

Thinking about this, Stalin too was a Conviction politician too, wasn't he.  

Yay, pray for Mogg, the faux victorian cum bucket

Edited October 19, 2017 by HairyOb1