Futuroid Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Love the smell of brexit in the morning..... Forgot to add - this was supposed to be the "easy" bit. Should have all been agreed within 6 months of the referendum. Now the hard bit begins and all those promises about the border, etc come back to haunt them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 58 minutes ago, ccc said: Again - you shoot yourself in the face. Fantastic. 1/ I assume you are having a laugh here ? 2/ In politics terms our leaders may be completely useless. However on a general world like term ? 3/ The UK owns Ireland. We boss them. It's just the way it is. And I happily say this being half Irish. 4/ Seriously - do you think Wallonia "Push" around the EU ? That tiny province of Belgium bossed the EU in the recent Canadian trade deal. Or again - does this stuff only work one way ? 1/ Clearly you haven't been following the news recently, May is currently jumping through Irelands hoops, not for fun but because she has to. 2/ "On a general world like term", does that actually mean anything? 3/ We might have done in the past but don't now, as May has recently discovered. Quote from Irish spokesman "We achieved all our goals in phase one of the negotiations, including preserving Common Travel Area, protecting Good Friday Agreement and, crucially, obtaining a guarantee there will be no hard border". They didn't compromise because they didn't need to. 4/ You have got that at$e about t!t, Wallonia used its membership of the EU to get what it wanted just like Ireland has. Other news, complete cave in on EU Citizen rights. Nigel is not happy “The European Court of Justice will be the ultimate arbiter of EU citizens’ rights. This is not acceptable.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Futuroid said: Forgot to add - this was supposed to be the "easy" bit. Should have all been agreed within 6 months of the referendum. Now the hard bit begins and all those promises about the border, etc come back to haunt them! I'm not so sure. Every nation in the EU that has lots of trade with the UK - and I think that's most of them - will be pressuring the EU negotiators - and ours I presume - to get this sorted. Interesting times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 6 hours ago, ccc said: "Leave lot" What the ****** were they "leaving" before we had even joined the EU ?! Typo, you know what I meant - or maybe you don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 It's happening. I'm sure there will be some detail of it I won't be happy with but as I said - hey ho. Least we are getting on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, Futuroid said: He's just saying that to help May save face (and stop her government from collapsing). On the divorce settlement - UK conceded (£40-60Bn). On the Irish border - UK conceded (UK remains committed to "full alignment with the rules of the customs union and the single market" ). On citizens rights - UK conceded (ECJ still has jurisdiction for EU citizens in the UK). Capitulation on all fronts from the UK, and you try to frame that as victory, Goebbels would be proud! Yep - Junker is going out of his way to stand up there and lie just to help his buddy May ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, ccc said: Well this is interesting news to wake up to. Funny - any other big Brexit news is posted on here within seconds - why is this different ? Junker himself "Compromises on both sides". "As in every negotiation...." So COVI - you still sticking to your "This isn't a negotiation" line of thought ? Anyway - no doubt there are parts of this way forward that both sides won't be happy with. Hey ho. Always going to be the case. We are at least getting there slowly. Even with our incompetents in charge. You have never led a business negotiation have you. The bigger your win the more you say you had to compromise to reach agreement Yep, we caved in on everything. Money, EU Citizens rights and Irish border the EU gave us their demands and we caved in on every item. What exactly do you think the EU are not happy about. Expect more of the same as we move on to the tricky stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Just now, ccc said: Yep - Junker is going out of his way to stand up there and lie just to help his buddy May ? He'd rather negotiate with May and Davis than someone who knows what they are doing As such, right now Junker is May's biggest supporter (on either side of the channel). Here's what Tusk said this morning: "We all know that breaking up is hard. But breaking up and building a new relation is much harder." "So much time has been devoted to the easier part of the task. And now, to negotiate a transition arrangement and a framework for our future relationship, we have de facto less than a year." It wasn't all wasted time though - we learned that David Davis was a liar and that nobody in the cabinet can tie their own shoelaces never mind do the kind of prep and research that a junior lawyer would need to do for a shoplifting case. As an aside, you are very chipper this morning considering that today is the day hard Brexit died. I have to ask - do you fall for PR from VIs every time, or is it just on the run up to Christmas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, ccc said: It's happening. I'm sure there will be some detail of it I won't be happy with but as I said - hey ho. Least we are getting on with it. Some detail - you have got everything wrong. Now that FoM is guaranteed for ever for anyone who makes it here by March 19 - When are those millions of new EE migrants you predicted going to turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Fast forward to today and we are now the 7th largest economy dropping below France and India, all because of a Brexit that hasn't even happened yet. Unproven - France overtook the UK in 2013, when there was no Brexit. India hasn't overtaken us yet AFAIK - but will soon overtake France too, EU or no EU. France puling slightly ahead seems due to sterling, but if it's based on GDP perhaps France is just using more coke & hookers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) Anyone would think that this 'negotiation' did not go to plan. What happened to all those 'red lines'? What happened to our 'winning hand'? So...... we have shown that we CAN bend over ... and we have been caught with our trousers down ........ I wonder what comes next? My betting is this -> 'no deal is better than a bad deal' will turn into 'any deal is better than no deal' ........pretty please! Edited December 8, 2017 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 11 hours ago, dugsbody said: Maybe that is true, but how does it explain countries who get into trouble that aren't in monetary unions? If you give - and think about - an example and compare it to what happened to Greece, I'm fairly confident you'll find your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Re: BBC news: Leo Varadkar? Is it me or am I hearing that the back door to becoming an EU citizen is to move to Northern Ireland.......?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm confused about what has changed since Monday. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, so how is it possible to have "no border" between the north and the south if we leave Europe. Where is the border if it isn't in the sea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: I'm confused about what has changed since Monday. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, so how is it possible to have "no border" between the north and the south if we leave Europe. Where is the border if it isn't in the sea? The border is seamless for people and trade is permitted via regulatory alignment and electronic trade approvals. seems to work ok for Norway-Sweden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: I'm confused about what has changed since Monday. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, so how is it possible to have "no border" between the north and the south if we leave Europe. Where is the border if it isn't in the sea? Or maybe we are not really leaving, next stop will agreeing the 2,3,4,,,N year membership extension, sorry implementation period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: I'm confused about what has changed since Monday. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, so how is it possible to have "no border" between the north and the south if we leave Europe. Where is the border if it isn't in the sea? There are limited possibilities, but it looks very much like the UK (all of it) will be in the customs union in all but name. There is an outside chance that David Davis has assured May that his plan for a virtual reality border (using "glitter unicorn" technology being invented right now by boffins - honest guv) is how the UK thinks it can get around the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Social Justice League said: I'm confused about what has changed since Monday. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, so how is it possible to have "no border" between the north and the south if we leave Europe. Where is the border if it isn't in the sea? Sounds like the border is going to be a 'virtual border' and in a few years Brexit will become a mild embarassment and something that is not mentioned at dinner parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: Or maybe we are not really leaving, next stop will agreeing the 2,3,4,,,N year membership extension, sorry implementation period. Perhaps. ive always said that brexit is a chapter in this story and the next GFC and Eurozone meltdown will make brexit an irrelevance to the EU saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: The border is seamless for people and trade is permitted via regulatory alignment and electronic trade approvals. seems to work ok for Norway-Sweden. Norway is in the single market! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Just now, Futuroid said: Norway is in the single market! I know that. We will be too; in all but name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Justice League Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 May - "Brexit means Brexit"...............unless you live in Northern Ireland...... The hardliners are quiet so far about this "Virtual Border". Can see them being overjoyed about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Perhaps. ive always said that brexit is a chapter in this story and the next GFC and Eurozone meltdown will make brexit an irrelevance to the EU saga. So, it sounds like there will be no change except for a few little things such as. We lose our rebate, we pay extra for staying in the club, we don't get to make any rules and we have no say in the rules that are made by the EU. Oh and we lose infuence on the world stage and we create more uncertainty for businesses during our N year implementation plan etc etc etc..... Brexiteers must be over the moon with such a fine result. Or as Oliver Hardy famously said 'thats another fine mess you got us into' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Of course its not going to suit everyone and there will be concessions on both sides. That's what happens. Cant please everyone. But its happening. And that's one thing the remainers on here just cant appear get their heads around. How are those 10-1 odds going ? As I said to whoever it was that posted it. If you REALLY believed that you would be sitting making millions on your FREE money. But you aren't. Because you don't really think that. You never did. You know its very likely that we will Brexit. Just accept it and move on. Trust me - it shall be a relief for you and you can stop the whining !! Joy for us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledMatty Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: That must be why we are currently being pushed around by Ireland. Feck Ireland. The most bullied country by the EU ever. Even Latvia has more weight. Ireland is a tiny country thats wholly dependent on the UK. Another potato famine might do them good. You will pay the price for being fussy eaters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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