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campervanman

Uk 1% Continue To Take More

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It's ok because the top 1% pay more than 1% of the tax take.

Actually it's ok because it trickles down through society anyway.

Also, they tend to be entrepreneurial and work harder than the other 99%.

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http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/14/oxfam-uk-1-percent-quarter-new-wealth-15-years

26% of UK wealth created since 2000 has gone to the 1%.

This is where your future has gone.

The more you have the more problems you have - hence the 99% are actually better off.

Thank god for that 1% willing to take the burden off our hands. What would we do without them.

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It's ok because the top 1% pay more than 1% of the tax take.

Actually it's ok because it trickles down through society anyway.

Also, they tend to be entrepreneurial and work harder than the other 99%.

Of course it trickles down through society. Thats why it is easy for young people to buy houses and they can look forward to decent pensions unlike in the bad old days before the 1980's when the 1% had less to trickle down. Blame the boomers, blame the EU blame anyone other than the system that allows your future to be stolen by the 1%. You know it makes sense, the 1% keep telling you so it must be true.

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Of course it trickles down through society. Thats why it is easy for young people to buy houses and they can look forward to decent pensions unlike in the bad old days before the 1980's when the 1% had less to trickle down. Blame the boomers, blame the EU blame anyone other than the system that allows your future to be stolen by the 1%. You know it makes sense, the 1% keep telling you so it must be true.

You underrate the fact that blaming a system is more difficult than blaming humans or a group of humans. Scapegoating is an almost natural thing. It's far easier to say: "I met a boomer down the pub last night and he was going on about his BTLs and how youngsters should just spend less on iPhones....." than talking about structures of society, fiat money, taxation and inequality; these are things that are more difficult to grasp and there's no one to blame directly like the bloke down the pub.

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Take off the top 10% of wage earners and the average wage for the rest is less than £13,000.

We have a system designed to move money from the bottom to the top.

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You underrate the fact that blaming a system is more difficult than blaming humans or a group of humans. Scapegoating is an almost natural thing. It's far easier to say: "I met a boomer down the pub last night and he was going on about his BTLs and how youngsters should just spend less on iPhones....." than talking about structures of society, fiat money, taxation and inequality; these are things that are more difficult to grasp and there's no one to blame directly like the bloke down the pub.

Of course it is easier and there are people of my age who have those attitudes but they are by no means the majority as some would want to believe. The frustrating thing from my point of view is seeing so many young people fall into the blame game trap because it is easy. It might make the blamers feel better for a short while but it won't change anything.

Edited by campervanman

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Of course it is easier and there are people of my age who have those attitudes but they are by no means the majority as some would want to believe. The frustrating thing from my point of view is seeing so many young people fall into the blame game trap because it is easy. It might make the blamers feel better for a short while but it won't change anything.

It is still worth informing that generation that their position, and the conditions that were put in place to crate it through fantasy promises is coming at a great cost. Too many refuse to recognize it still.

Just this morning there was an elderly lady on the radio talking about some dog breed whose pups are cheap at 400 per pop - she's said it's mostly bought by retired people because they 'you know, we don't have big bank balances'. I shit you not when I say she then mentioned she had 60 acres of land and when people ask her how she manages 19 of them she replies 'I have an enormous house'.

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The frustrating thing from my point of view is seeing so many young people fall into the blame game trap because it is easy. It might make the blamers feel better for a short while but it won't change anything.

This is quite obviously a recurring bugbear of yours, but I think it is maybe somewhat misplaced.

I don't think that majority of grumbling about intergenerational inequality is in any way about blame. Blame is the wrong word. It is much more about progressivity, in the taxation sense. I don't see people looking for solutions as particularly interested in whether any perceived nett societal deficit of a generation (i.e. taken more out than they've put in) is due to deliberate intergenerational theft (hence blame) or just unforeseen happenstance or honest mistake (no blame). The important issue is that if there is an imbalance, whatever the reason for it, this is acknowledged and in acknowledging it that inequality is smoothed with the blessed generations giving up something for those less blessed.

I'm sure of course there will already be some searching for blame, just like there are some that put housing inaffordability down to the glut of iPods. I imagine though that the longer the generations doing well out of intergenerational inequality feel it unneccessary to either acknowledge or act to smooth those inequalities, the more the generations on the other side of the equation will start to worry about the reason as they begin to feel that it smells of deliberacy.

Edited by BlokeInDurham

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^ BlokeInDurham - like the progessivity view.

I have one property in the UK that I rent out. It was purchased with cash. The house is just there as an insurance policy, it will by my UK residence eventually. The only thing I need is a tennant in situ, the rent only needs to cover the overheads, I do not need or want a return on investment as the money tied up in the property was just dead money sitting on deposit earning diddly squat. Whilst there are others who are heavily indebted who bought several properties as an alternative to earning an honest living, there are also probably many more like me.

Most people lose money on their insurance policies.

Such a shame.


Dead money eh. What do you charge the tennant(s) approx, if you don't mind me asking. Seem to recall you live in France?

Any older person buying with cash will very likely be more interested in income than capital growth. A cash purchase will do better than money earning eff all in a savings account.

We have friends with one small BTL house - bought with cash to generate a modest income. They have had the same tenant for over 10 years now. Prices did shoot up after they'd had it a few years so they could have sold at a good profit, but that had never been the point of the exercise. I suspect they are far from the only ones.


From my pov owning a btl has very little to do with income, more to do with having a tangible asset rather than pieces of paper entrusted to a 3rd party. I think many older people probably feel the same.



Anyway, always the generational 'innocence', and a mix of posting positions that confuse me a lot. I've just not bothered to raise with you.. doesn't really bother me any more.

Not guilty. I donated my 4 bedder to a genX family 8 years ago and decided to no longer deprive anyone of a smaller UK house either.


-----------
Too much paranoia that savers in banks are going to get wiped out - lots of VI thrilled with that idea.. see it pushed on here regularly as the outcome coming... going to be left with houses worth fortunes as young get wiped out even harder.

- "Everyone is wealthy on paper - but nobody has any real money." (source: 8 Year Itch)

With fiscal tightening / tax /... even HTB ISA and that new Saving-Match scheme taking money out of the economy... things could be heading that way, with asset prices pumped up, and BTLers piling in last few years, often doubling down, at crazy prices 'brix and mortar innit' - one-in-12-over-60s-owns-second-home-as-grey-savers-buy-to-let

Agree entirely. Savings are being churned into BTL precisely so the banks can avoid an obvious savings bail in.


HPC it.

Edited by Venger

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The 1% blame game does confuse me.

Some of the 1% pay a lot of tax. Some of the 1% don't.

Some of the 1% are older baby boomer landlords. Other 1% productuve business people / employers. Some who have been made 1% through mad gainz of reckless credit bubble and bailout for it.... where so many people sat on massive equity also still point to bankers as at fault (but many don't want to give up any ego-HPI). 'What it is worth' / population growth / supply and demand HPI forever'.

Generally they don't seem to impact on my position in a negative way - as far as I can tell - (apart from the BTLer/property 1% types).

Iin the UK housing market, where so many more baby boomers do have claim to a lot of housing wealth (£Trn), and now it seems, even more via BTL claims.

And they go on not their fault about pensions being naff for younger people, whilst they have good pensions + BTL. I can see why they want the priced out to look away from them, and toward the big-bad (mix) of the '1%'.

1%.

I totally agree. My previous landlady was a 60something multimillionaire from west London who had inherited a property fortune. Her total contribution to society seemed to involve coming around to our very modest HMO flat once a year and complaining that we hadn't dusted the skirting boards behind the sofa. For this we paid her £18k a year in rent. No doubt she felt most aggrieved at the portion of our rent the government took off her.

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The OP has a UK property he rents out.

Lives in France (iirc).

Given a different house away (and here doesn't mention the other rental property he rents out).

Not guilty. I donated my 4 bedder to a genX family 8 years ago and decided to no longer deprive anyone of a smaller UK house either.

Cushty cushty. That's some accumulation of wealth along the way.

I have one property in the UK that I rent out. It was purchased with cash. The house is just there as an insurance policy, it will by my UK residence eventually. The only thing I need is a tennant in situ, the rent only needs to cover the overheads, I do not need or want a return on investment as the money tied up in the property was just dead money sitting on deposit earning diddly squat. Whilst there are others who are heavily indebted who bought several properties as an alternative to earning an honest living, there are also probably many more like me.

And very frequently points us to look at the 1% - not the difference in positions between younger and older housing interest at a wider level - on my reading of it anyway.

26% of UK wealth created since 2000 has gone to the 1%.

This is where your future has gone.

Edited by Venger

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Venger, I fail to see what your posting demonstrates other than the ability to spend time trawling through previous posts. In the context of tens of billins a year being sucked out of the economy by 1% of the population that in previous times would have gone into the wider economy how is it relevant?

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The 1% blame game does confuse me.

Some of the 1% pay a lot of tax. Some of the 1% don't.

Some of the 1% are older baby boomer landlords. Other 1% productuve business people / employers. Some who have been made 1% through mad gainz of reckless credit bubble and bailout for it.... where so many people sat on massive equity also still point to bankers as at fault (but many don't want to give up any ego-HPI). 'What it is worth' / population growth / supply and demand HPI forever'.

Generally they don't seem to impact on my position in a negative way - as far as I can tell - (apart from the BTLer/property 1% types).

Iin the UK housing market, where so many more baby boomers do have claim to a lot of housing wealth (£Trn), and now it seems, even more via BTL claims.

And they go on not their fault about pensions being naff for younger people, whilst they have good pensions + BTL. I can see why they want the priced out to look away from them, and toward the big-bad (mix) of the '1%'.

1%.

I think you are in denial. Denial over a system that has enabled so much of the wealth being created in the UK to be chanelled into fewer an fewer hands. Just how many people like me do you think make up members of the 1%? You say that the 1% having a greater share doesn't seem to impact upon your life in a negative way. Maybe that is because it is easy for you to identify people like me who have pensions and houses that are denied to you and then conclude that it is people like me that are denying you what I have rather than the root cause of your situation which IMO is a reversal of wealth distribution since the 1980's that has resulted in billions that could have gone into pensions and housing and more going somewhere else.

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It's ok because the top 1% pay more than 1% of the tax take.

Actually it's ok because it trickles down through society anyway.

Also, they tend to be entrepreneurial and work harder than the other 99%.

''Also, they tend to be entrepreneurial and work harder than the other 99%.''

I think smarter rather than harder.. but smarter like a psychopath thinks smarter

like Hitler,

like Stalin

like Poll Pot

like that chap in North Korea

like the pshychos running the banking scams and schemes. etc etc

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I don't know how industry/earning 1% wealth impacts on my life, that's true. Uncertain and always willing to read views about it.

Fact you've seemingly been able to give away a family house (who to.....? - nice for them eh....)

Live in France...

(good pension?), have a BTL (capital... rent just needs to cover costs' (but how much are you charging and who are you renting it to?) - so much for not impacting on anyone who wants to own a home.

... and persist in insisting it's all the fault of the 1%, troubles me a bit.

I want more of a rebalancing is all. I don't even want to live like some of the 1% might do... with total extravagance and no struggle in life.

I don't come into contact with it often, but I sure do come into contact with very wealthy/secure baby boomers who keep claiming they've got it hard/blame the bankers/1%... whilst worth fortunes themselves (good pensions, life of HPI, and asset wealth that can correct in value). My view is rebalancing is required there mostly.

I bought my first house in the very early 1980's. It was three bedroomed terraced house in a decent part of Sheffield, it cost about £10,500 and my pay was about £5,750.

After a couple of years my job took me to London, in price terms I virtually swapped my Sheffield house for a one bedroom flat with an SW1 post code, Sloane Square was less than a five minute walk away and the nearest "off licence" was Berry Brothers & Rudd.

A couple of years after that I paid about £22,000 for a two bedroom flat in Fulham, I think at the time my wages had topped £10,000. Property costs can't have been too much of a burden because soon after I bought a Porsche.

Incidentally, I had no student debts and a rock solid final salary pension that subsequently allowed me to retire at 55.

Absolutely none of this is available to my children. They're fortunate in that I can afford to match for them the benefits that I was lucky enough to enjoy, but anyone from my generation who thinks their own hard work and industry were the keys to their good fortune is just taking nonsense. We were the most privileged generation that has ever lived.

I've lost track of the number of people I know who are sitting on healthy property 'profit' for having done nothing, yet at the same time blame others (mainly bankers) for all today's problems.

Mason's rage seems pretty synthetic to me. He's not likely to be personally affected by what's happening with the economy. He's old enough to have bought property when it was cheap and he has a well-paid and fairly secure job. The impact on his life of a few bankers messing about with LIBOR or exchange rates? Close to zero.

I'm sure there are journalists out there who are full of genuine rage, but they are probably 20-25 years younger than 1960-born Mason.

I think there are a fair proportion of boomers in the professional classes who have have been shielded from the vicissitudes of the world for two generations or more They are about to find out how the world works.

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The difference between me and you is that I want a win/win for you and me. I want you and people like you to have what previous generations had. I see the driver of that being a reversal of wealth distribution since the 1980's to wealth distribution before the 1980's. Your vision is a lose/ lose with the 1% continuing to hoover up more and more whilst everyone else shares out the scraps.

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I don't know how industry/earning 1% wealth impacts on my life, that's true.

It's the 60%+ tax takers that impact our lives most !!!!!!!

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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