Chance Of Leveraged Btl New Tax Structure Being Overturned

[Si1]

Brexit.

Boris Johnson new Tory party leader.

Michael Gove new chancellor.

Populist measure to sound more 'tory' by appeasing hard working euro sceptic landlords. The real reason for housing crisis being the poles. Save the landlords. You know it makes sense.

[msi]

More tenants to vote labour. 2025 landslide with a 60% tax rate. Armageddon....blood on the streets.

[spyguy]

Brexit.

Boris Johnson new Tory party leader.

Michael Gove new chancellor.

Populist measure to sound more 'tory' by appeasing hard working euro sceptic landlords. The real reason for housing crisis being the poles. Save the landlords. You know it makes sense.

I don't think a lot of Tories suppurt IO BTLers.

I doubt Gove does.

[Si1]

Just playing devil's advocate. Never discount the legs of this bubble.

[BLOW FLY]

I'm with you Si1

It has no bounds

They will do anything to stop house prices falling, anything!

All bets are off, IMO there will be no HPC.

I / my family will never own a house in my own "indigenous land" we're resigned to this.

Just need to make some alternative plans

BF

[SimonSays]

I don't think a lot of Tories suppurt IO BTLers.

To my understanding it goes against everything an entrepreneurial and business friendly government stands for ; Thatcherism was all about hard work bringing about social mobility and generating wealth….. these buy to let parasites are about keeping people down and in poverty no matter how hard they work; Has more in common with corbynism/socialism.

[pmf170170]

I / my family will never own a house in my own "indigenous land" we're resigned to this.

House prices are relatively expensive all over the country but outside of the SE and a few other notable hot spots, I believe that they are probably affordable to most people, at least whilst interest rates are low and compared to the cost of renting. With very low ten year fixes available, significant hedging opportunities exist for those concerned about future interest rate hikes. If you don't need to rent for mobility reasons, (bitter) experience has shown all on HPC that buying has made sense for pretty much the entire time that this website has been in existence. I can only state this with the benefit of hindsight. and the past is obviously no guide to the future. I STR in 2007 at the peak of the last boom but bought back in in 2008 at 2002 prices and I'm glad I did the way that things have gone since.

[Assume The Opposite]

Just to add to the theories.. What if Osbourne's plan is too destroy the UK and the economy? Make measures towards serfdom permanent?

- Read my signature.. Osbourne wanted to move away from private debt bubbles in 2010.. the came 2013 HTB and rest is history
- Austerity is cutting many services across the country where many people of all ages rely on

- No significant investment in really anything except HPI

- No real bank reform and the Banking Act 2013 won't take effect before the next crash (Think Deutsche Bank, Italy Banks, Greece, China etc...)

- Bank bail in's passed into law copying all other western countries

- Forcing people into shitty jobs or starve with sanctions

- Forcing through fracking and taking away local decision making

- Destroying social housing permanently

- Bailing out banks and developers with ZRIP, FLS, HTB etc

- Permanently privatising the NHS by stealth with Health and Social Care Act

- Legal aid cut

- Refusing to help steel industry while bending over to China

There are probably many more..

Looking at it from the perspective that this is all by design and not just down to incompetence or ideology.. Makes a great deal of sense.

This isn't just a jibe at the Tories cause Brown did cause other damage with selling off the gold, 'light touch regulation' and the pension reforms etc.

[Si1]

buying has made sense for pretty much the entire time that this website has been in existence.

?

[winkie]

I'm with you Si1

It has no bounds

They will do anything to stop house prices falling, anything!

All bets are off, IMO there will be no HPC.

I / my family will never own a house in my own "indigenous land" we're resigned to this.

Just need to make some alternative plans

BF

They will do anything to keep debt being pumped into the system.....every pound of debt means more cash available to spend today....only problem being housing debt has now become unhealthily unbalanced......the debt needs to be directed more towards growth businesses and investment into infrastructure.

Trouble is the people that would and want to spend into the economy already have so much debt to service they have no capacity spare to spend....the rest don't need it so don't buy into it.....all they can do is save as much as they can, while they still can for their future 0% or not.

[repetitive bleats]

To my understanding it goes against everything an entrepreneurial and business friendly government stands for ; Thatcherism was all about hard work bringing about social mobility and generating wealth….. these buy to let parasites are about keeping people down and in poverty no matter how hard they work; Has more in common with corbynism/socialism.

Right. Because Rentier Capitalism is called Rentier Capitalism because it is socialism... Can you list the pronouncements Corbyn has made that make you think he is on the side of BTL? I spoke with him on this very subject before the elections last year and although he didn't agree with my view that we should pull all support for the housing market, let it implode and deal with the consequences when they arise - he certainly isn't on the side of the rentiers.

[SimonSays]

Right. Because Rentier Capitalism is called Rentier Capitalism because it is socialism... Can you list the pronouncements Corbyn has made that make you think he is on the side of BTL? I spoke with him on this very subject before the elections last year and although he didn't agree with my view that we should pull all support for the housing market, let it implode and deal with the consequences when they arise - he certainly isn't on the side of the rentiers.

I don't call it rentier capitalism, you call it that if you like, doesn't make it accurate.

No I won't list any pronouncements.

He didn't agree with your view but he's on your side anyway? That doesn't make much sense.

Regardless, I said 'more in common with' socialism than the 'traditional' conservative view of encouraging social mobility and home ownership. It amuses me the 118ers think encouraging home ownership is somehow against a conservative governments principles;Im similarly amused if you think it too.

[bubbleturbo]

Absolutely no chance.

The tories were brave with this one and it payed off for them. Except for a bit of low level winging from pretty thick people here and there, the policy in going after BTL seems to be a success with the populous in general.

Considering the scale of these changes and how many people are now into BTL, there has been very little noise at all. It is like a giant elephant in the room.

This has proven to me that anyone with an average IQ, understands and is aware of the anti-social nature of BTL. That it has been allowed to get this far is therefore a moot point and people don't want to discuss it.

The truth is, the growth of BTL is an utter disgrace and shows how rotten the UK economy really is at it's core.

In Germany, as I am sure many are aware, they purposefully avoid HPI because it encourages inefficient use of capital.

Basically, the extreme amount of GDP which is now BTL here it is a giant boil on the ***** of the UK.

Something which is very embarrassing and needs to be lanced.

The fact that Labour did absolutely nothing about it whatsoever and pretty much actively encouraged it just shows what a disgrace Labour really are. Not trying to be political, they are all tossers, but Labour are supposed to represent the working people.

Bliar has amounted a huge "property portfolio" and his wife is reportedly representing the BTL landlords against the government. Shocking.

Edited March 12, 2016 by bubbleturbo

[BorrowToLeech]

I don't call it rentier capitalism, you call it that if you like, doesn't make it accurate.

No I won't list any pronouncements.

He didn't agree with your view but he's on your side anyway? That doesn't make much sense.

Regardless, I said 'more in common with' socialism than the 'traditional' conservative view of encouraging social mobility and home ownership. It amuses me the 118ers think encouraging home ownership is somehow against a conservative governments principles;Im similarly amused if you think it too.

The primary purpose of the Tory party is to protect the power of the ruling classes from the masses. In the UK, landlords are the traditional ruling class.

One tactic is ideology. Tories are great at creating self-serving ideologies to justify privilege, they've done it at least twice with patriotic nationalism (King and country) being ditched for neoliberalism (the American Dream) when it became convenient.

Another tactic is the home-owning democracy, which better aligns the interests of the masses with their landowning masters, and so fools many into voting for them.

Holding onto power has often involved giving small concessions to prevent having to give large concessions later, and the home owning democracy was an example. Give the plebs a tiny piece of land and they won't come after us for the rest. Our democracy itself was just a concession to prevent revolution, which is why we have about the most undemocratic democracy possible.

Hurting the BTL market might be another example of this. Tiny changes to prevent total collapse of the Tory vote. BTL is landlording as a consumer lifestyle. Off the peg despotism for the masses. Good for the Tories in small doses, an easily sacrificed scapegoat when the need arises.

Essentially BTL landlords are the useful idiots of the British Conservative movement.

Tories are good at politics. Geniuses in fact. For a party who's interests are diametrically opposed to those of the electorate to stay so close to power after a century of democracy is astounding.

People do not, generally understand, politics. This is not an accident.

[Neverwhere]

Absolutely no chance.

The tories were brave with this one and it payed off for them. Except for a bit of low level winging from pretty thick people here and there, the policy in going after BTL seems to be a success with the populous in general.

Considering the scale of these changes and how many people are now into BTL, there has been very little noise at all. It is like a giant elephant in the room.

This has proven to me that anyone with an average IQ, understands and is aware of the anti-social nature of BTL. That it has been allowed to get this far is therefore a moot point and people don't want to discuss it.

The truth is, the growth of BTL is an utter disgrace and shows how rotten the UK economy really is at it's core.

In Germany, as I am sure many are aware, they purposefully avoid HPI because it encourages inefficient use of capital.

Basically, the extreme amount of GDP which is now BTL here it is a giant boil on the ***** of the UK.

Something which is very embarrassing and needs to be lanced.

The fact that Labour did absolutely nothing about it whatsoever and pretty much actively encouraged it just shows what a disgrace Labour really are. Not trying to be political, they are all tossers, but Labour are supposed to represent the working people.

Bliar has amounted a huge "property portfolio" and his wife is reportedly representing the BTL landlords against the government. Shocking.

+ 1

[spyguy]

The primary purpose of the Tory party is to protect the power of the ruling classes from the masses. In the UK, landlords are the traditional ruling class.

One tactic is ideology. Tories are great at creating self-serving ideologies to justify privilege, they've done it at least twice with patriotic nationalism (King and country) being ditched for neoliberalism (the American Dream) when it became convenient.

Another tactic is the home-owning democracy, which better aligns the interests of the masses with their landowning masters, and so fools many into voting for them.

Holding onto power has often involved giving small concessions to prevent having to give large concessions later, and the home owning democracy was an example. Give the plebs a tiny piece of land and they won't come after us for the rest. Our democracy itself was just a concession to prevent revolution, which is why we have about the most undemocratic democracy possible.

Hurting the BTL market might be another example of this. Tiny changes to prevent total collapse of the Tory vote. BTL is landlording as a consumer lifestyle. Off the peg despotism for the masses. Good for the Tories in small doses, an easily sacrificed scapegoat when the need arises.

Essentially BTL landlords are the useful idiots of the British Conservative movement.

Tories are good at politics. Geniuses in fact. For a party who's interests are diametrically opposed to those of the electorate to stay so close to power after a century of democracy is astounding.

People do not, generally understand, politics. This is not an accident.

Well New Labour's ideal business would be a small town of BTLs, owned by an MP or local party activist, occupied by a doley, with the ever increasing rent paid by the state.

[pig]

To my understanding it goes against everything an entrepreneurial and business friendly government stands for ; Thatcherism was all about hard work bringing about social mobility and generating wealth.. these buy to let parasites are about keeping people down and in poverty no matter how hard they work; Has more in common with corbynism/socialism.

Well, at least we have some insight as to why the sheeple voted in the current shower.

[SimonSays]

Well, at least we have some insight as to why the sheeple voted in the current shower.

Correct. And a good job we did; You think the labour party who created the problems we talk about on this site would be making the moves Osborne is making that has floored the likes of the 118 crowd?

I bet you won't even thank us!

[jiltedjen]

Great post buytoleach excellent in fact

[BorrowToLeech]

Correct. And a good job we did; You think the labour party who created the problems we talk about on this site would be making the moves Osborne is making that has floored the likes of the 118 crowd?

I bet you won't even thank us!

Shall I thank you for the removal of inheritance tax on million pound houses, the funding for lending scheme and help to buy as well? Edited March 13, 2016 by BuyToLeech

[SimonSays]

Shall I thank you for the removal of inheritance tax on million pound houses, the funding for lending scheme and help to buy as well?

Feel free!

Im not actually a conservative party representative! And I won't defend everything they've done. But the tapering of the tax relief removal is a good step;You cant honestly believe the labour party that got us into this mess to begin with would be a better option!?? Under their reign of terror house prices tripled, the public sector ballooned creating the deficit we still labour under a term and a half later, and you want more! Is it stockholm syndrome?

The fact is, for as long as Corbyn has anything to do with labour we're stuck with the conservatives for better or worse, and whats more given that labour are unelectable in their current form the conservatives are in a mode where they can do what is unpopular yet necessary. In the fullness of time we will see where that leads. It couldnt be any worse than where labour took us can it?

Which brings us back on topic. The tax structure changes being overturned? No. The opposition are unelectable, now is the time to do what is necessary yet painful. For some.

[Venger]

..now is the time to do what is necessary yet painful. For some.

Painful for those who've laid claim to multiple properties, to rent out to others, via debt. The pain oh the pain. Reap it.

The Bank of England has printed £375 billion since 2009 in a bid to kick-start the recovery, equal to 25 per cent of our entire national economic output. Lord Lamont said there was little "visible" evidence of a boost to the wider economy, that QE had pushed up inflation and it had been disastrous for the savings of pensioners across the country. The hard truth, he added, was that British households had borrowed too much during the years before the credit crisis and how had to pay it off.

He said: "QE is an attempt to avoid the necessary adjustment. "(Mark Carney's) role is not to find a monetary silver bullet but to deliver some hard message that a debt work out is exactly that - tough, unremitting, but the only way to get the economy back into better shape."

Even if Labour did get things together, it has to be done. It would probably be forced onto all politicians by the markets eventually, despite the softhearts who continue to say the deficit and national debt doesn't matter, and that we can print our own currency. I notice those who push that tend to be homeowners already (not always), and one eye on incomes they want protected ('spend spend' - public sector spending feeds through to everything yay \o/). And too often don't want to be knocked off top spot.

The world doesn't owe us a living and stop with the buying up of houses at mad-high prices, outbidding others. If it catches you out, to financial oblivion, then so sad, too bad, and welcome back to the real world.

If political authorities could benefit only from inflation, and not be harmed, they would obviously print more money in higher denominations than they do.

...they are missing several facets of a complex situation:

1. As we have emphasised, they have misunderstood the nonlinear character of the economy as a complex system. Nonlinear systems typically operate through stages or cycles, with rapid phase transitions from one period to the next. This is a characteristic of the economy in practice, if not in theory.

2. They are too readily dismissing the relevance of past experience. The chronic inflation since World War II is a historical anomaly. There have been ups and downs since the beginning of time. The Book of Genesis tells us that seven lean years followed seven bountiful years. It would be truly remarkable if the cycle of boom and bust has been eliminated.

3. They ignore the costs of runaway inflation, which exceed those of deflation. In advanced economies, the damage done by destroying the bond market is greater than the stimulative effect of eliminating all debt. Only countries without advanced capital markets like those in Latin America and Africa dare to have runaway inflations. The market is a potent deflationary feedback mechanism for countries that borrow in their own currencies.

It is all too simple to think that central banks have magic powers. They don't. They can create liquidity by creating debt. But this is not the same thing as creating capital. Any time a central bank monetises an asset by buying it, in essence, with printing-press money, it also creates a liability. Only the market can create capital by valuing assets above liabilities.

A high financial interrelations ratio reflects the capital that a society can create when inflation is controlled. The gain in wealth is tremendous. But this added wealth is at risk if inflation is allowed to run wild. The notion that easy money is a magic tonic that can counter the forces of contraction is likely to seem more alluring as an argument than it proves to be a fact. In 1929, neither the Federal Reserve not the Bank of England could overcome the worldwide forces making for contraction just by manipulating numbers on their balance sheets.

[Venger]

Shall I thank you for the removal of inheritance tax on million pound houses, the funding for lending scheme and help to buy as well?

1. Doesn't protect from a HPC. £1m houses can fall hard in value, despite the higher IHT allowance.

2. Required so the banks/system can get through HPC/correction

3. Led the BTL investors to double down in a frenzy, for banks to smooth out their risks. (HTB numbers not so high and mostly at the lower range of prices/debt). BTLers carrying more of the risks of HPC now, less so the banks.

[PopGun]

The primary purpose of the Tory party is to protect the power of the ruling classes from the masses. In the UK, landlords are the traditional ruling class.

One tactic is ideology. Tories are great at creating self-serving ideologies to justify privilege, they've done it at least twice with patriotic nationalism (King and country) being ditched for neoliberalism (the American Dream) when it became convenient.

Another tactic is the home-owning democracy, which better aligns the interests of the masses with their landowning masters, and so fools many into voting for them.

Holding onto power has often involved giving small concessions to prevent having to give large concessions later, and the home owning democracy was an example. Give the plebs a tiny piece of land and they won't come after us for the rest. Our democracy itself was just a concession to prevent revolution, which is why we have about the most undemocratic democracy possible.

Hurting the BTL market might be another example of this. Tiny changes to prevent total collapse of the Tory vote. BTL is landlording as a consumer lifestyle. Off the peg despotism for the masses. Good for the Tories in small doses, an easily sacrificed scapegoat when the need arises.

Essentially BTL landlords are the useful idiots of the British Conservative movement.

Tories are good at politics. Geniuses in fact. For a party who's interests are diametrically opposed to those of the electorate to stay so close to power after a century of democracy is astounding.

People do not, generally understand, politics. This is not an accident.

Great post

[Assume The Opposite]

Politics isn't really taught much in schools. Neither is the fact that private banks create 97% of our money supply. Both require the population to be illiterate and blame easy targets such as immigrants/cleaners/scroungers/Corbyn