The Corbynomics Thread

[Killer Bunny]

QE PQE They're both about stealing from 95%.

PQE is about powerful people putting loads of money into pet projects. Can't imagine what could go wrong.

QE is about powerful people putting loads of money into pet projects. Can't imagine what could go wrong.

[wonderpup]

QE PQE They're both about stealing from 95%.

PQE is about powerful people putting loads of money into pet projects. Can't imagine what could go wrong.

QE is about powerful people putting loads of money into pet projects. Can't imagine what could go wrong.

To be fair some pets are more appealing than others- on the whole I'd prefer a pet that builds affordable homes than one that just pumps up the asset values of the already asset rich.

In an ideal world people would be paid a fair wage for their labour and housing would not be impossibly expensive- but we do not live in that world- So PQE is an attempt to redress an existing problem rather than a utopian solution.

[richc]

Was listening again to Corbyn on the Andrew Marr show this morning, and yet again there is no doubt in my mind rightly or wrongly that man aims are for a better and more fair society. I think the past few decades at least our politicians have been one of the same, they all just do what the hell they want and to keep the majority of the country in a zombiefied state where they are too self serving to rock the boat.

How exactly is it "fair" to seize 75% of the income of someone working 80-hour weeks so that they can have a modest middle-class lifestyle, then turn around and give a fully able-bodied person a £300,000 income for doing absolutely nothing? That's not fair -- that's vote-buying.

[billybong]

Shadow chancellor punches the air as members give a standing ovation

Vows to hike taxes on the rich and target foreign firms who do not pay tax

Attacked buy-to-let landlords and threatened to overhaul Bank of England

Those sort of headlines would have pretty much amounted to a political death knell in the 80s and 90s when most everyone was Mondeo man and moving towards so called middle class - and a political negative even in the tax them until the pips squeak days of Healey.

These days such headlines don't seem to have the same resonance that the Mail would like them to have seeing as the gap in living standards has increased so much, generally insecure work, the circumstances of the young related to crazy house prices, money launderers setting house prices plus the UK's wrecked economy along with the never ending story pretending recovery etc etc.

Edited September 28, 2015 by billybong

[richc]

How is it fair to quadruple the wealth of already rich asset owners using taxpayer funded props schemes such as Right to Buy (for Housing Associations) and Help to Buy and in doing so price out a whole generation, just so that you can win an election and make your rich friends and donors even richer?

I don't know. Maybe you can ask Tony Blair and Gordon Brown? And in any case, asset prices have almost nothing to do with income these days so how exactly taxing income is going to change anything about the distribution of assets rather escapes me (though I do see the clear benefit in confusing the two issues to middle class losers like Corbyn sitting in million pound houses in Islington when they would be hard pressed to make more than the NMW in the private sector).

[Guest]

How exactly is it "fair" to seize 75% of the income of someone working 80-hour weeks so that they can have a modest middle-class lifestyle, then turn around and give a fully able-bodied person a £300,000 income for doing absolutely nothing? That's not fair -- that's vote-buying.

You shouldn't have to work an 80-hour week to have a 'modest middle-class lifestyle'. That's the whole point.

[scepticus]

I think if people haven't woken up yet as to how the media try to manipulate things, surely they must have got the hint by now. They truly are surpassing themselves.

Tactically they are doing it all wrong though. They should let Corbyn hang himself first and then go for the kill when it matters. So early in his leadership means they likely will shoot their bolt and will be zoned out as 'noise' by their readers.

Good point. The Telegraph has been shooting itself and the Tory establishment in the foot on this issue since the day he was first nominated. However I presume someone in Toryland is telling them to do it so there must be someone on the inside who thinks its a good idea?

[spyguy]

Good point. The Telegraph has been shooting itself and the Tory establishment in the foot on this issue since the day he was first nominated. However I presume someone in Toryland is telling them to do it so there must be someone on the inside who thinks its a good idea?

The Torygraph is a shadow of itself - just the Daily Mail with a different title and no celebs in bikinis.

A sane approach would be left Corbyn just drag the whole British left down with him.

Corbyn picked a short straw on who was going represent the far left in the Lab Leadership election. He did not expect to win.

Due to Brown's bullying and smearing, the rest of the team was limited to Brown's cabal and new entrants from 2010.

Brown's lot are totally discredited. They lost.

The new people were just too new.

Blair blundered in an fcked up any centre

left argument - just like bringing peace and democracy to the ME.

Corbyn got a bit of win - he said a couple of things that struck a chord with the great disaffected. Unfortunately, the more you listen the more you'll find he has polices on everything - nothing too small, too far away, or too pointless. They all have the same solution - regulation and public sector employment and spend.

The left wings Union then swung into action and pushed Corbyn - you'll notice the same font and graphic design behind Corbyn, The NoCuts and the People's Alliance.

Making a stand for fairness and equality, Corbyn appointed (or had appointed for him) a broad spectrum of the Labour party - just old, far left idiots, like him. Oh ,and a stupid fat bird he used to sh@g.

Labour is not left with a leadership bandwagon being propelled by a load of far left Union money. Its heading over a cliff. And it'll drag the Unions with it.

The democratic wing of hte Unions is making much of 'more people voted for Corbyn than any other Labour leader' mandate. As if it would translate to some form of national mandate. It won't.

[zugzwang]

The Torygraph is a shadow of itself - just the Daily Mail with a different title and no celebs in bikinis.

A sane approach would be left Corbyn just drag the whole British left down with him.

Corbyn picked a short straw on who was going represent the far left in the Lab Leadership election. He did not expect to win.

Due to Brown's bullying and smearing, the rest of the team was limited to Brown's cabal and new entrants from 2010.

Brown's lot are totally discredited. They lost.

The new people were just too new.

Blair blundered in an fcked up any centre

left argument - just like bringing peace and democracy to the ME.

Corbyn got a bit of win - he said a couple of things that struck a chord with the great disaffected. Unfortunately, the more you listen the more you'll find he has polices on everything - nothing too small, too far away, or too pointless. They all have the same solution - regulation and public sector employment and spend.

The left wings Union then swung into action and pushed Corbyn - you'll notice the same font and graphic design behind Corbyn, The NoCuts and the People's Alliance.

Making a stand for fairness and equality, Corbyn appointed (or had appointed for him) a broad spectrum of the Labour party - just old, far left idiots, like him. Oh ,and a stupid fat bird he used to sh@g.

Labour is not left with a leadership bandwagon being propelled by a load of far left Union money. Its heading over a cliff. And it'll drag the Unions with it.

The democratic wing of hte Unions is making much of 'more people voted for Corbyn than any other Labour leader' mandate. As if it would translate to some form of national mandate. It won't.

The deregulation, privatisation and globalisation agenda we've had for the last thirty-five f***ing years having worked so well.

Why bother to propose an alternative?

[Uncle_Kenny]

Was listening again to Corbyn on the Andrew Marr show this morning, and yet again there is no doubt in my mind rightly or wrongly that man aims are for a better and more fair society

You are making the mistake of judging the aims of the policies instead of the effects of the policies.

Mao Zedong made a genuine attempt to increase Chinese steel production. Nevermind that the effect was several tens of millions Chinese dying of starvation. (Great Leap Forward)

[Uncle_Kenny]

Those sort of headlines would have pretty much amounted to a political death knell in the 80s and 90s when most everyone was Mondeo man and moving towards so called middle class - and a political negative even in the tax them until the pips squeak days of Healey.

These days such headlines don't seem to have the same resonance that the Mail would like them to have seeing as the gap in living standards has increased so much, generally insecure work, the circumstances of the young related to crazy house prices, money launderers setting house prices plus the UK's wrecked economy along with the never ending story pretending recovery etc etc.

Bear in mind that when Corbyn uses the word 'rich' he's not using it as in the sense of it's dictionary definition. The word in this context means 'people who are wealthier than you'. It's essentially an appeal to the free money vote. No one thinks they are rich, rich means the people above me.

[spyguy]

The deregulation, privatisation and globalisation agenda we've had for the last thirty-five f***ing years having worked so well.

Why bother to propose an alternative?

Deruglation has worked - BT.

Privatisation - Leccy, water +gas . No problems. Rail was fcked up but is still a lot better than BR.

Globalisation. Pretty hard to avoid unless you are North Korea. We win some (cheap computers + electronics) and lose some (manufacturing jobs). But you could argue that the winners (western consumers + starving chineese ) have saved more than the losers (manufacturing employees mainly) have lost.

End of the day, China and its entry into global economy over the last 25 years is such a bizarre freakish, still ongoing event

[billybong]

Bear in mind that when Corbyn uses the word 'rich' he's not using it as in the sense of it's dictionary definition. The word in this context means 'people who are wealthier than you'. It's essentially an appeal to the free money vote. No one thinks they are rich, rich means the people above me.

For sure but the other lots think the rich/the source of free money is everyone below them. The Mail's "scary" headlines just don't cut that much ice any more when the alternative has already gone and wrecked the economy without the help of the likes of Corbyn.

Edited September 28, 2015 by billybong

[wonderpup]

Well we tried the Neo Liberal ideology for the last 25 years and got stagnant wages, grossly overpriced houses,increasingly insecure and poorly paid employment, huge personal and government debts and the meltdown of the global financial system.

Perhaps it's time we tried something else?

Corbyn and Co may not have all the answers- but at least they are asking questions-instead of bleating the same tired mantra of 'trickledown' and 'deregulation'.

[Northerner]

This photograph would make a good 'Spot the Foot' competition ...

[sikejsudjek]

Privatisation - Leccy, water +gas . No problems. Rail was fcked up but is still a lot better than BR.

Well there are problems. Ever been with npower or Scottish power ? I doubt many of their customers would share your optimism ! (I can vouch for npower being a joke the two times I was with them). More seriously when investigated they were shown to have overcharged by around 5%

BR operated with a lower subsidy and produced a better more integrated system. I disagree that it was worse. It was far, far better. I could more often get a seat, connections would often wait, ticket prices were substantially lower, and they were able to provide more stock for special events. In the west FGW (now 'Great' Western) are still using all ex BR rolling stock. All they have done is wedge in more seats so there is no leg room and paint the coaches different colours. That in no way justifies the massive fare increases I've had to put up with. Outside of London (which gets £7 to every £1 most other regions receive) the system is a disorganised mess. The ultimate irony, is that most of the ToC's are STATE owned rail companies. So instead of an integrated state system, we've got a fragmented system still run by state owned companies to whom we pay a significant premium. This makes no sense at all.

[zugzwang]

Deruglation has worked - BT.

Privatisation - Leccy, water +gas . No problems. Rail was fcked up but is still a lot better than BR.

Globalisation. Pretty hard to avoid unless you are North Korea. We win some (cheap computers + electronics) and lose some (manufacturing jobs). But you could argue that the winners (western consumers + starving chineese ) have saved more than the losers (manufacturing employees mainly) have lost.

End of the day, China and its entry into global economy over the last 25 years is such a bizarre freakish, still ongoing event

No problems with the privatisation and deregulation of leccy, water + gas?

Not much!

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

Deruglation has worked - BT.

Privatisation - Leccy, water +gas . No problems. Rail was fcked up but is still a lot better than BR. ...

Nope, not in my universe.

They were 'ours', I want them all back, plus all the stripped assets with interest.

[pig]

Well we tried the Neo Liberal ideology for the last 25 years and got stagnant wages, grossly overpriced houses,increasingly insecure and poorly paid employment, huge personal and government debts and the meltdown of the global financial system.

Perhaps it's time we tried something else?

Corbyn and Co may not have all the answers- but at least they are asking questions-instead of bleating the same tired mantra of 'trickledown' and 'deregulation'.

Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far.

But the one virtue Corbyn seems to have so far is to point out there are alternatives that are at least no more crazy than the sickly orthodoxy that people aren't even aware they are suffering under.

[scepticus]

Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far.

But the one virtue Corbyn seems to have so far is to point out there are alternatives that are at least no more crazy than the sickly orthodoxy that people aren't even aware they are suffering under.

I quite liked the accusation levelled against his fellow leadership candidates that all they offered was 'a thin blairite gruel'. Summed it up perfectly I thought.

[alexw]

I just lurk nowadays but just to let you know.

Corbyn called out the gov on the property bubble in his maiden conference speech -

"Britain’s balance of payment deficit £100 billion last year.

Loading our economy and every one of us with unsustainable debt for the future.

And the shocks in world markets this summer have shown what a dangerous and fragile state the world economy is in.

And how ill prepared the Tories have left us to face another crisis.

It hasn’t been growing exports and a stronger manufacturing sector that have underpinned the feeble economic recovery.

It’s house price inflation, asset inflation, more private debt.

Unbalanced.

Unsustainable.

Dangerous.

The real risk to economic and family security.

To people who have had to stretch to take on mortgages.

To people who have only kept their families afloat through relying on their credit cards, and payday loans.

Fearful of how they will cope with a rise in interest rates.

It’s not acceptable."

[Venger]

The deregulation, privatisation and globalisation agenda we've had for the last thirty-five f***ing years having worked so well.

Why bother to propose an alternative?

It could work with a hpc / correction.

I don't fancy a new system which locks in the Islington HPI, championed by 'new system QE' house building where you might be able to genuinely afford a home in 30 years.

[goldbug9999]

Rail was fcked up but is still a lot better than BR.

Says someone who presumably does not have to pay the highest per-mile rail tariff in the world in order to commute to london with FGW.

Edited September 30, 2015 by goldbug9999

[Quicken]

Privatisation - Leccy, water +gas . No problems. Rail was fcked up but is still a lot better than BR.

Well there are problems. Ever been with npower or Scottish power ? I doubt many of their customers would share your optimism ! (I can vouch for npower being a joke the two times I was with them). More seriously when investigated they were shown to have overcharged by around 5%

BR operated with a lower subsidy and produced a better more integrated system. I disagree that it was worse. It was far, far better. I could more often get a seat, connections would often wait, ticket prices were substantially lower, and they were able to provide more stock for special events. In the west FGW (now 'Great' Western) are still using all ex BR rolling stock. All they have done is wedge in more seats so there is no leg room and paint the coaches different colours. That in no way justifies the massive fare increases I've had to put up with. Outside of London (which gets £7 to every £1 most other regions receive) the system is a disorganised mess. The ultimate irony, is that most of the ToC's are STATE owned rail companies. So instead of an integrated state system, we've got a fragmented system still run by state owned companies to whom we pay a significant premium. This makes no sense at all.

Still better than the water privatisation though. Total f*cking joke that one, and corbyn still isn't talking about reversing it AFAIK.

[DarkHorseWaits-NoMore]

Now look here, he wears long red socks with sandals and he's been reported to have said (though haven't heard yet) he won't be able to kill millions of innocent civilians with a nuclear strike. The media are signalling that he's finished, clearly unelectable or otherwise extremely dangerous.

It must be the socks...