Has Cameron Left It Too Late

[FANG]

Or are these just weasel words to try and appease the masses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514136/I-DO-share-concerns-migration-declares-Cameron-days-Mails-explosive-poll-PM-unveils-sweeping-new-restrictions-access-benefits.html

The future looks even bleaker

[Tonkers]

Or are these just weasel words to try and appease the masses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514136/I-DO-share-concerns-migration-declares-Cameron-days-Mails-explosive-poll-PM-unveils-sweeping-new-restrictions-access-benefits.html

The future looks even bleaker

Weasel words. Why is he so powerless?

[campervanman]

Or are these just weasel words to try and appease the masses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2514136/I-DO-share-concerns-migration-declares-Cameron-days-Mails-explosive-poll-PM-unveils-sweeping-new-restrictions-access-benefits.html

The future looks even bleaker

As usual the UK is years behind the rest of Europe where there are open borders and benefits are contribution based. The UK model based on residency and East German style border controls is pathetic.

[The Masked Tulip]

Too little too late. Very weak proposals. Makes it sound like he is powerless to do anything. Obviously worried in Downing Street.

[Frank Hovis]

Too little too late. Very weak proposals. Makes it sound like he is powerless to do anything. Obviously worried in Downing Street.

If he actually means this and "jobseekers" means any benefit seekers then this could be massive. Owing, of course, to our perennial bugbear here - Britain's stupidly high housing costs:

By January 1, Mr Cameron will announce EU jobseekers will no longer be paid housing benefit to subsidise accommodation costs.

[The Masked Tulip]

It is electioneering. Get re-elected and then do nothing.

[righttoleech]

The mistake was letting these countries join the EU. The majority of citizens of core EU countries would have said NO if asked.

UK politicians betray us because by tradition:

Labour can display their supposed socialist morals by bringing poor countries in.

Tories will do anything to weaken the influence of France and Germany - the more the merrier.

Albania next? speciality organised crime. 80% Europe's heroin trade and forced prostitution specialists........I can hear the soundbites already. 'If Albania was within the EU we could control this criminal activity more easily'.

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

Are the immigrants really the problem? Are you sure that the problem is not high density living with everyone piled on top of each other on 5% of the countries available land?

I was chatting last night to some Poles who moved to Ireland for building work 6/7 years ago, needless to say they are now unemployed and retraining into IT. I am also an immigrant to Ireland so have a different viewpoints to many on HPC.

I would say that almost all migrants are hardworking people looking for a better life and are prepared to work for it - that's why they move. Initially they may need a little help, but eventually they become productive members of society.

I think the biggest problem with migration into the UK is the competition for jobs and accommodation with the bottom 75% of society. that does not necessarily mean that you should restrict the movement of people, but you should instead address the problems of low cost housing and provide the public with the means to create jobs (low business rates for small businesses, subsidized business premiss, no small business tax, goverment grants)

[erat_forte]

'If Albania was within the EU we could profit from this criminal activity more easily'.

Only a slight tweak needed.

[campervanman]

Only a slight tweak needed.

Indeed putting the supplier with the junkie is a marriage made in heaven.

[1929crash]

I find it difficult to believe that eastern Europeans come here for £56 a week Jobseekers' Allownace. They come here because they think that there are greater economic opportunities. Perhaps the solution is to disabuse them.

There must be plenty of ex-Lib Dems who used to deliver leaflets and knock on doors but have left because of Sh1t Clegg.

Why not arrange for them to go delivering leaflets and knocking on doors in Cracow and Lublin telling residents what a hellhole Britain has become under Cameron and Clegg.

The leaflets could have slogans like "Clegg-cameron does for you what Hitler-Stalin did for your Grandparents."

Don't mock. If eastern Europeans are so gullible as to spontaneously demonstrate in favour of the EU, it might just work.

[Damik]

Just checking the immigration numbers across EU and UK is not anything special. The data are from 2010. Perhaps the immigration is not the real problem.

http://en.wikipedia....tion_to_Germany

Country Total population (1000) Total Foreign-born (1000) %

Germany 81,802 9,812 12.0

France 64,716 7,196 11.1

United Kingdom 62,008 7,012 11.3

Spain 45,989 6,422 14.0

Edited November 27, 2013 by Damik

[richc]

I find it difficult to believe that eastern Europeans come here for £56 a week Jobseekers' Allownace. They come here because they think that there are greater economic opportunities. Perhaps the solution is to disabuse them.

There must be plenty of ex-Lib Dems who used to deliver leaflets and knock on doors but have left because of Sh1t Clegg.

Why not arrange for them to go delivering leaflets and knocking on doors in Cracow and Lublin telling residents what a hellhole Britain has become under Cameron and Clegg.

The leaflets could have slogans like "Clegg-cameron does for you what Hitler-Stalin did for your Grandparents."

Don't mock. If eastern Europeans are so gullible as to spontaneously demonstrate in favour of the EU, it might just work.

Perhaps not for JSA, but would someone move from Eastern Europe for a low wage job, plus child benefit and housing benefit that gives you an equivalent income of about £40,000. Plus free health care. Frankly, you'd have to be kind of stupid not to, and Poles and Hungarians are not stupid.

[long time lurking]

Or are these just weasel words to try and appease the masses.

http://www.dailymail...s-benefits.html

The future looks even bleaker

AKA the Farage effect

[campervanman]

Of course it is too late, and those saying that these are weasle words have hit the nail on the head.

In all probabilty, whatever the vision of the type and size of the of immigration most of the UK population would like to see is never going to be achieved, those decisions have already made for us by "those at the top".

I am not against immigration, I actually think the dumbest people on our shores are those who judge on a persons skin colour, and also immigration has given Britain so much in the last 3000 years.

But what I am violently opposed to is the reckless way in which so many ways and traditions are just being bulldozed in order to create someones vision of a rainbow nation. I cannot stand it when not so educated types of people are then paraded in front of TV as they clumsily try to articulate the destruction of their once decent poor neighbourhoods and are then branded racist as well.

The introduction of mass overnight immigration as a policy for keep wage inflation down in the UK has far from exhausted itself yet, as well as many of the perks for the top 5% of the UK business population.

The politicians can live with all the moaning on internet forums and the rants down the pub by probably 90% of the UK people, but in my opinion we are getting closer to the point where people will soon express their anger in some way, and usually with violence and destruction.

What traditions are being bulldozed?

What is this overnight immigration? Immigration has been a factor in the UK for many years, it is not something that has happened overnight. If you are talking of the EU immigrants from 2004 then proportionately more of those are in work than the indigenous population. What evidence is there that wages would be higher without immigration?

[richc]

Just checking the immigration numbers across EU and UK is not anything special. The data are from 2010. Perhaps the immigration is not the real problem.

http://en.wikipedia....tion_to_Germany

Country Total population (1000) Total Foreign-born (1000) %

Germany 81,802 9,812 12.0

France 64,716 7,196 11.1

United Kingdom 62,008 7,012 11.3

Spain 45,989 6,422 14.0

The youth unemployment rate in Spain in 56%. Maybe immigration is the real problem.

[long time lurking]

Are the immigrants really the problem? Are you sure that the problem is not high density living with everyone piled on top of each other on 5% of the countries available land?

I was chatting last night to some Poles who moved to Ireland for building work 6/7 years ago, needless to say they are now unemployed and retraining into IT. I am also an immigrant to Ireland so have a different viewpoints to many on HPC.

I would say that almost all migrants are hardworking people looking for a better life and are prepared to work for it - that's why they move. Initially they may need a little help, but eventually they become productive members of society.

I think the biggest problem with migration into the UK is the competition for jobs and accommodation with the bottom 75% of society. that does not necessarily mean that you should restrict the movement of people, but you should instead address the problems of low cost housing and provide the public with the means to create jobs (low business rates for small businesses, subsidized business premiss, no small business tax, goverment grants)

If it was not for the problems mentioned above I don't think there would be any opposition to immigration,i think the bottom 75% of the population as you put it also realise there is no political will to do anything about those problems

[LiveinHope]

What traditions are being bulldozed?

What is this overnight immigration? Immigration has been a factor in the UK for many years, it is not something that has happened overnight. If you are talking of the EU immigrants from 2004 then proportionately more of those are in work than the indigenous population. What evidence is there that wages would be higher without immigration?

Have you lived in a dispersal city ?

[Damik]

The youth unemployment rate in Spain in 56%. Maybe immigration is the real problem.

Or perhaps the real problem is to build extra 1 000 000 flats and houses nobody wants and then watch how this mistake kills banks and industry ...

perhaps it was wrong when Spain used more cement in 2007 then Italy, France and Germany combine

but yes; it is the immigrants as always; we need them when economy is booming to do crap jobs and we kick them out when the economy is busting

Edited November 27, 2013 by Damik

[scrappycocco]

He is powerless. This was all decided many years ago with that treaty thing that idiot signed when none of us was looking.

[1929crash]

Or perhaps the real problem is to build extra 1 000 000 flats and houses nobody wants and then watch how this mistake kills banks and industry ...

Hang on, it was the banks who were keen to lend money on all those projects - do not portray them as victims.

[richc]

Or perhaps the real problem is to build extra 1 000 000 flats and houses nobody wants and then watch how this mistake kills banks and industry ...

perhaps it was wrong when Spain used more cement in 2007 then Italy, France and Germany combine

but yes; it is the immigrants as always; we need them when economy is booming to do crap jobs and we kick them out when the economy is busting

Supposedly, Spain was building all those houses to home the immigrants. It was a bad strategy all around.

[richc]

As usual the UK is years behind the rest of Europe where there are open borders and benefits are contribution based. The UK model based on residency and East German style border controls is pathetic.

There is a very good reason not to have benefits based on contribution. Doing so skews benefit payments towards people who are older and wealthier, so you end up in a situation like Italy where wealthy pensioners end up crushing the prospects of younger generations. I agree with you, though, that the current UK system no longer works when borders are essentially open.

[campervanman]

Have you lived in a dispersal city ?

It follows that if there are certain areas where immigrants are a disproportionately high % of the population then there are ther areas where they are not. As Eastern European immigration only accounts for around 1% of the UK population then it hardly follows that the 1% are bulldozing British traditions in the country as a whole.

[campervanman]

There is a very good reason not to have benefits based on contribution. Doing so skews benefit payments towards people who are older and wealthier, so you end up in a situation like Italy where wealthy pensioners end up crushing the prospects of younger generations. I agree with you, though, that the current UK system no longer works when borders are essentially open.

Not necessarily as the contribution period could be adjusted as required to meet economic need. For example if there are large numbers of young people who decide that it is a better option to have several kids when they leave school than to get themselves eductated then contribution credits could be given to those who seek to improve their employment prospects through further education and benefits that are currently acailable to UK residents who see their main role in life to breed the next generation of indigenous chavs can be withdrawn. It works in other countries.