Price Fixing Energy Prices

[South Lorne]

They would not allow energy companies to control the rationing.

..the energy companies act as both wholesalers and retailers..part of the problem ...he could of course nationalise it all and put the price risk on to the tax payer if there any primary one's left...he would just borrow and gamble ...what else from one raised at the political knees of Gordo the Clown and a communist family background....

Edited September 24, 2013 by South Lorne

[Traktion]

Price fixing doesn't work!

How many times do we have to put up with this sh*t?

[DTMark]

Hmmm. Did Miliband say that the energy companies wouldn't be able to raise prices, or, that customer prices would be frozen?

I think it was the latter.

That doesn't mean that the energy companies can't charge more. It just means that the government will have to hoover up the deficit from the tax take and give it to the energy suppliers.

Rather like the schemes for housebuying.

The dysfunctional nature of the monetary system suggests to me that in the end, just shortly before the entire system collapses, the cost of all necessities will be "socialised".

[Dorkins]

I think there's a good chance they won't be able to implement this. This could be Miliband's equivalent of Clegg and tuition fees.

[Ash4781]

..the energy companies act as both wholesalers and retailers..part of the problem ...he could of course nationalise it all and put the price risk on to the tax payer if there any primary one's left...he would just borrow and gamble ...what else from one raised at the political knees of Gordo the Clown and a communist family background....

Milliband is on 5live at 7.45 but I guess as you say they will have to guarantee the investment But wont go as far as nnationalisation. Ch4 news took the angle that wouldn't be able to hit the CO2 reduction targets. Other media is conjuring up images of Labour past with rolling blackouts.

[Dorkins]

Price fixing doesn't work!

How many times do we have to put up with this sh*t?

Depends how long it takes the media and the general public to connect the dots between the cost of living, inflation and the Bank of England.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Depends how long it takes the media and the general public to connect the dots between the cost of living, inflation and the Bank of England.

I'm certainly struggling to join the dots at the moment. On one hand we are being promised lots of free things whilst atthe same time being told taxes won't go up for £60k earners and all the while the country is bust.

Ed has got my vote.

[interestrateripoff]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_on_Maximum_Prices

The Edict on Maximum Prices (also known as the Edict on Prices or the Edict of Diocletian; in Latin Edictum De Pretiis Rerum Venalium) was issued in 301 by Roman Emperor Diocletian.

The Edict was probably issued from Antioch or Alexandria and was set up in inscriptions in Greek and Latin. The decree now exists only in fragments found mainly in the eastern part of the empire, where Diocletian ruled. However, the reconstructed fragments have been sufficient to estimate prices for goods and services for historical economists.

The Edict on Maximum Prices is still the longest surviving piece of legislation from the period of the Tetrarchy. The Edict was criticized by Lactantius, a rhetorician from Nicomedia, who blamed the emperors for the inflation and told of fighting and bloodshed that erupted from price tampering.

By the end of Diocletian's reign in 305, the Edict was for all practical purposes ignored. The Roman economy as a whole was not substantively stabilized until Constantine's coinage reforms in the 310s.

He's in good company attempting to fix prices.

[interestrateripoff]

I'm certainly struggling to join the dots at the moment. On one hand we are being promised lots of free things whilst atthe same time being told taxes won't go up for £60k earners and all the while the country is bust.

Ed has got my vote.

You mean £60k low income earners. Please get it right they are the new poor.

[tomandlu]

I suppose he could do it by subsidy rather than price-fixing. That would end well...

I don't understand how price-fixing is meant to work - "we will only pay you £x," "well, you can't have any gas then," "oh, okay."

[Mr. Miyagi]

Would this even be legal under E.U law?

[campervanman]

Would this even be legal under E.U law?

France did something similar with fuel prices last year.

[@contradevian]

France did something similar with fuel prices last year.

France introduced rent controls too. Doubtless this brought about the collapse of society as we know it.

[Mr. Miyagi]

France did something similar with fuel prices last year.

The difference being France often stick two fingers up to the E.U, whilst we in the U.K roll over.

[campervanman]

The difference being France often stick two fingers up to the E.U, whilst we in the U.K roll over.

And then blame the EU. I'm not sure that putting a freeze on prices would contravene competition law though unless Milliband stopped new entrants coming into the market undercutting the 6 companies that currently control 98% of energy supplies in the UK.

[richc]

Have heard this mentioned elsewhere.

Based on what logic?

Is there a modern example of this as I don't know of one.

That and "it's green legislation wot's pushing up prices" (not energy company profits climbing way in excess of their costs, even though this appears to be what's happening).

You sound like you're questioning whether price controls lead to shortages.

Try wiping your bum in Venezuela and you'll find out the answer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/21/world/americas/venezuela-toilet-paper/index.html

(BTW, I love how the BBC reports on the shortage of toilet paper in Venezuela, though they leave out the small, little detail that there are price controls in effect there.)

Edited September 25, 2013 by richc

[Mr. Miyagi]

And then blame the EU. I'm not sure that putting a freeze on prices would contravene competition law though unless Milliband stopped new entrants coming into the market undercutting the 6 companies that currently control 98% of energy supplies in the UK.

Of course Ed who was responsible for the disastrous climate change act could repeal it, and promise not to shut down older power stations. That would do far more to control energy prices than a cap on prices. He could also support fracking and not allow the gas produced to be sold on the E.U energy markets.

[Bloo Loo]

squabble squabble squabble.

all this for a price fix for 1 year only...they probably have the nod that British Gas has already bought its 2015 supplies.

[byron78]

You sound like you're questioning whether price controls lead to shortages.

Try wiping your bum in Venezuela and you'll find out the answer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/21/world/americas/venezuela-toilet-paper/index.html

So no modern example on energy then? Didn't France fix prices recently? Presumably they are now all wiping their bums with their hands.

[byron78]

My local council have frozen council tax for the past 5 years.

I'm not convinced price fixing works either BTW judging by how services have suffered locally.

[pablopatito]

Have they explained how this will work? Energy suppliers offer loads of different tariffs. I tend to switch supplier every year or so to benefit from their lowest tariffs. I'm assuming that when this law comes in the energy suppliers will simply withdraw their lowest tariffs and we'll all be stuck on the higher ones? I suspect this will end up losing me money rather than saving me any and the only people who will actually save money are those too lazy to ever switch tariffs.

After all, if you currently want your price to be frozen for two years you can simply sign-up for a two-year fix deal - everyone offers them - no need for the state to get involved.

But we all know this is just a political gimmick anyway. It just annoys me that the MSM let them get away with it instead of calling it for what it is.

[LiveinHope]

The obvious hole was found in Ed's energy policy during his 08.10 interview on the R4 Today Programme.

Ed's energy policy train crash moment. When the policy collapsed around his ears.

If it was Just a minute, everyone would have buzzed for 'hesitation'.

Ed's difficulty was not fully exploited, but certainly placed on the table by the interviewer for others to pick up, hopefully,

Very surprised that Ed wasn't prepared for the obvious question - suggests the policy is not thought through.

Labour party leader - synonymous with 'pr4t'

Apparently, the whole energy policy is to help hard-pressed working families, oh how I hate that stupid term.

Not spotted the elephant in the room then yet, Ed ?

Edited September 25, 2013 by LiveinHope

[crashmonitor]

My local council have frozen council tax for the past 5 years.

I'm not convinced price fixing works either BTW judging by how services have suffered locally.

Council tax doesn't work either because unlike fuel it is deducted at source from housing benefit. If it was paid as an income into the pockets of welfare recipients they might think again about voting in spending rises.....eg. benefit goes up by inflation, Labour council increase Council tax 10% and they would start protesting. So basically those of us that actually paid needed protection from voters who didn't pay, because the system doesn't trust them to control their own budget. So lets start paying benefits gross and we would have a regulator over council tax, the public. If you don't pay you want the moon.

Edited September 25, 2013 by crashmonitor

[cool_hand]

so it was OK for Labour to allow house prices to inflate completely out of control but energy prices, that's different. makes my blood boil.

[interestrateripoff]

so it was OK for Labour to allow house prices to inflate completely out of control but energy prices, that's different. makes my blood boil.

Energy prices don't make you feel rich. Can you now spot the difference or do you need to report to the nearest reeducation centre?