The Big Food Banks thread

[Errol]

I looked through a print copy of the Telegraph today and couldn't find ANY report of the record Food bank usage. Have I missed it somehow or is this just an obvious example of selective reporting/propaganda?

[SarahBell]

What they're after:

The following items would be appreciated:

Milk (UHT, long-life or powdered)

White Sugar (500g)

Soup (Tinned or packet)

Pasta Sauces

Sponge Pudding (Tinned)

Tomatoes (Tinned)

Tubes of tomato puree

Breakfast Cereals

Rice Pudding (Tinned)

Tea Bags

Instant Coffee

Instant Mashed Potato

Rice

Pasta

Tinned Meat

Tinned sardines or tuna in oil

Tinned Fruit

Fruit Juice (carton)

Dried fruit

Jam

Biscuits or snack bars

Cooking oil

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I've just donated about an hours minimum wage worth of Aldi's finest to Life Share in Manchester.

[stormymonday_2011]

you are wrong again:

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sanctions-and-hardship

Hardship payments Along with the new rules about sanctions there are also new rules that make sure that people do not suffer as a result of loss of benefit. Anyone who loses benefit due to a sanction will be able to apply for a hardship payment. For example if you could not afford rent or food or you needed to buy medical or hygiene supplies, then the hardship payment would provide you with a basic financial safety net.

You will have to pay back these hardship payments.

That just says you can 'apply' for a hardship payment.

It does not state how quickly you are going to get it or how much

The GOV.UK site merely states that

you may get hardship payments if you’re suffering financial hardship

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/further-information

The JSA10 Form for Hardship Payments can take upto 10 days to process which is why many people wind up at Food Banks. In fact the figures from the Food Banks themselvest show that 30% of those who get aid are due benefit but simply have not receievd it because the government bureaucracy is so sclerotic.

Out of interest attached is a recent response by Job Centre Plus to an FOI request about hardship payments

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/172137/response/422679/attach/3/FOI%203729.pdf

Edited October 17, 2013 by stormymonday_2011

[fluffy666]

You mean like selling off rings, expensive phones, cars they don't actually need and big tv's ?

Well yes they probably should be. But if a wee interview with one personnel that's a little embarrassing means they get free food ? Why would they . . .

Ps The above does not apply to all in this situation. I imagine it applies to a hell of a lot of them though.

Yay, let's go back to the 1930s and force the poor to flog off any possessions they do have, for a knock down price, just to put a bit of food on the table. Some of them insist on hanging on to both kidneys as well, selfish ingrates that they are.

In fact, may I present A Modest Proposal to ensure maximum value for us taxpayers...

[workingpoor]

Yay, let's go back to the 1930s and force the poor to flog off any possessions they do have, for a knock down price, just to put a bit of food on the table. Some of them insist on hanging on to both kidneys as well, selfish ingrates that they are.

In fact, may I present A Modest Proposal to ensure maximum value for us taxpayers...

I wouldn't class anyone as poor if they're residing in house they overborrowed for above safe income multiples, & subsequently went on to MEW & spend equity gains.

I'd say they need to get a better understanding of personal finance.

[wonderpup]

I wouldn't class anyone as poor if they're residing in house they overborrowed for above safe income multiples, & subsequently went on to MEW & spend equity gains.

I'd say they need to get a better understanding of personal finance.

What you describe here is simply not possible since no responsible lender would have allowed it to happen...oh I take your point.

You're saying that the people who took on too much debt to buy property should have been more savvy than the thousands of maths and economics PHD's stuffed into skyscrapers in the City- who lent them the money.

It gets worse- now we have the Chancellor of the Exchequer giving explicit state guarantees to anyone who wants to overborrow to buy a house.

So what can you say to these people- that their own government is lying to them? That Osbourne is such a degenerate that he will happily load them up with massive debt just to get elected? Even though he knows that in the long run interest rates will rise and eat these people alive?

It's true- but just try telling them that- they will not believe you- they will believe that if the Government itself is willing to underwrite their lending then it must be ok- right?

[ccc]

Yay, let's go back to the 1930s and force the poor to flog off any possessions they do have, for a knock down price, just to put a bit of food on the table. Some of them insist on hanging on to both kidneys as well, selfish ingrates that they are.

In fact, may I present A Modest Proposal to ensure maximum value for us taxpayers...

So i make a reasonable point about many of these people having things they don't really need - and could sell if they were really desperate (ie like someone living in a shanty town in Kenya) - and your response is to talk about people selling body parts and their children.

[The Masked Tulip]

So i make a reasonable point about many of these people having things they don't really need - and could sell if they were really desperate (ie like someone living in a shanty town in Kenya) - and your response is to talk about people selling body parts and their children.

You could always pop down and offer them your steak receipes?

[ccc]

You could always pop down and offer them your steak receipes?

Let them eat steak !!!

[bristolhunter]

again you need only £28 pw to do not starve. even with JSA you get more. there is no need for anybody to go to the foodbank

You *need* a hell of a lot less than that. Average food spend per adult per week in the UK is £23 according to ONS. £28 would be a fair bit above average. I spend a lot less.

There's genuine poverty and they deserve to be helped, but many people seeking help are victims of lack of information, imagination and reason which would allow them to eat nutritiously for far less (although in some cases with difficulty, e.g. this does require at least one ring cooker, if you're in a bedsit with microwave or no facilities at all it becomes drastically harder)

[Errol]

From 25/10/13:

Shock as more families rely on food bank

In the last six months alone, the number of people in the Paisley area who have turned to charity for food has rocketed by around 500 per cent.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/shock-more-families-rely-food-2535678

Edited October 31, 2013 by Errol

[LiveinHope]

What you describe here is simply not possible since no responsible lender would have allowed it to happen...oh I take your point.

You're saying that the people who took on too much debt to buy property should have been more savvy than the thousands of maths and economics PHD's stuffed into skyscrapers in the City- who lent them the money.

It gets worse- now we have the Chancellor of the Exchequer giving explicit state guarantees to anyone who wants to overborrow to buy a house.

So what can you say to these people- that their own government is lying to them? That Osbourne is such a degenerate that he will happily load them up with massive debt just to get elected? Even though he knows that in the long run interest rates will rise and eat these people alive?

It's true- but just try telling them that- they will not believe you- they will believe that if the Government itself is willing to underwrite their lending then it must be ok- right?

Two 'wrongs' don't make a 'right'

Caveat emptor

etc

Edited October 31, 2013 by LiveinHope

[Errol]

Malnutrition cases in English hospitals almost double in five years

The shocking impact of recession and austerity on England’s poorest people has come to light again in figures showing the number of malnutrition cases treated at NHS hospitals has nearly doubled since the economic downturn.

In another indication of food poverty’s growing impact, figures from the Health and Social Care Information Centre show that diagnoses of rickets – a disease of poverty associated with vitamin D deficiency – have also risen significantly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/malnutrition-cases-in-english-hospitals-almost-double-in-five-years-8945631.html

[richc]

Malnutrition cases in English hospitals almost double in five years

The shocking impact of recession and austerity on England’s poorest people has come to light again in figures showing the number of malnutrition cases treated at NHS hospitals has nearly doubled since the economic downturn.

In another indication of food poverty’s growing impact, figures from the Health and Social Care Information Centre show that diagnoses of rickets – a disease of poverty associated with vitamin D deficiency – have also risen significantly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/malnutrition-cases-in-english-hospitals-almost-double-in-five-years-8945631.html

That article is the perfect example of mis-information on this issue.

The primary cause of increases in rickets is that more dark-skinned children are now living in the far northern latitudes and are unable to make vitamin D. It has nothing to do with benefit levels.

Further, look at their example:

Case study: Chris, 10, from London

The welfare charity Kids Company has shared stories of some of London’s hungry. Chris, 10, showed signs of malnourishment with pale skin and dark rings under his eyes. He was so hungry he chipped bits of brick off the wall and ate them. His alcoholic father left his mother two years ago. The only food the children were given was cheap and processed. Key workers intervened by picking him up from school every day and eating a healthy supper with him in one of Kids Company’s centres.

If the kid's parents are going to drink up the benefit payment, rather than feed their kid, there's not a whole lot of good that increasing benefits is going to do.

[Errol]

Yes, I agree about the rickets issue. But the malnutrition side is more shocking.

[winkie]

Malnutrition cases in English hospitals almost double in five years

At first I thought you meant people going into hospital are not eating enough...is it because the food is so unappetising so it is left uneaten? or is it because elderly frail, confused people are unable to eat it and the staff haven't the time to see that they eat or help them to eat, so take it away uneaten....wonder how much food waste there is in hospitals?

[alexw]

That article is the perfect example of mis-information on this issue.

The primary cause of increases in rickets is that more dark-skinned children are now living in the far northern latitudes and are unable to make vitamin D. It has nothing to do with benefit levels.

Further, look at their example:

If the kid's parents are going to drink up the benefit payment, rather than feed their kid, there's not a whole lot of good that increasing benefits is going to do.

Except the data says that the number of malnutrition cases has doubled, so if what you say is true then the number of parents spending the money on booze and fags over the past 5 years instead of on their children must also have doubled. How likely do you think that is?

To any right thinking person the odds of that are nil.

Now I know you don't want to admit it since it doesn't suit your political prejudices but the evidence is pretty overwhelming. The cumulative impact of rising costs of necessities, falling incomes particularly at the lower end, benefit changes, and sanction regimes, is reducing the incomes of the poorest to the extent that they have difficultly feeding their children properly.

If this is not the case then explain why malnutrition cases have doubled in some manner that makes sense (i.e. not the one you used above).

Edited November 18, 2013 by alexw

[richc]

Except the data says that the number of malnutrition cases has doubled, so if what you say is true then the number of parents spending the money on booze and fags over the past 5 years instead of on their children must also have doubled. How likely do you think that is?

To any right thinking person the odds of that are nil.

Now I know you don't want to admit it since it doesn't suit your political prejudices but the evidence is pretty overwhelming. The cumulative impact of rising costs of necessities, falling incomes particularly at the lower end, benefit changes, and sanction regimes, is reducing the incomes of the poorest to the extent that they have difficultly feeding their children properly.

If this is not the case then explain why malnutrition cases have doubled in some manner that makes sense (i.e. not the one you used above).

I see your doubling of hospital admissions for malnutrition and I raise you for a four-fold increase in admissions for childhood obesity.

My problem with that article is that they take a complicated issue of why there were 2,000 more hospital admissions for malnutrition last year as compared to 5 years ago, add in a wholly unrelated phenomenon around rickets, and then attribute everything to a cut in benefit levels. Most discussions I have seen or heard around malnutrition in the UK concern the elderly not being able to look after themselves, and suffering from a poor diet as a result. Increasing the number of food banks would have exactly zero impact on fixing that. At the same time, they're saying that admissions have increased the most in Somerset and Cornwall, areas with relatively low levels of child poverty, but they frame the article as an issue of child poverty. That doesn't really make sense.

Frankly, it's impossible to know what's going on with malnutrition given the very simplistic level of data that's presented.

[wonderpup]

I see your doubling of hospital admissions for malnutrition and I raise you for a four-fold increase in admissions for childhood obesity.

“Some are born to sweet delight, Some are born to endless night.”. Both can be true, neither contradicts the possibility of the other.

I just don't recall having any discussions on here about kids starving in the UK until the Eaton Boys took control- coincidence? Maybe- I agree it's not possible to establish with certainty that something radically new is occurring.

But here we are discussing the possibility that children in this country may be suffering from malnutrition- not a conversation I ever expected to have in my lifetime.

Vote Tory.

[bristolhunter]

But here we are discussing the possibility that children in this country may be suffering from malnutrition- not a conversation I ever expected to have in my lifetime.

Why not? I've been expecting it for some time. The people who've in the past five years started having children are those who weren't taught to cook either at home or school, it's exactly the time we should be expecting a combination of obesity and malnutrition to rise. Far too many people simply have no idea what to eat themselves, never mind feed to children.

[Si1]

Except the data says that the number of malnutrition cases has doubled, so if what you say is true then the number of parents spending the money on booze and fags over the past 5 years instead of on their children must also have doubled. How likely do you think that is?

To any right thinking person the odds of that are nil.

Now I know you don't want to admit it since it doesn't suit your political prejudices but the evidence is pretty overwhelming. The cumulative impact of rising costs of necessities, falling incomes particularly at the lower end, benefit changes, and sanction regimes, is reducing the incomes of the poorest to the extent that they have difficultly feeding their children properly.

If this is not the case then explain why malnutrition cases have doubled in some manner that makes sense (i.e. not the one you used above).

Either that or those on benefits give up their children's food before they give up their fags

Or global food prices have gone up

Or quite possibly other things

Don't pretend you're being more logical, you were just projecting your own prejudices

[dances with sheeple]

Why not? I've been expecting it for some time. The people who've in the past five years started having children are those who weren't taught to cook either at home or school, it's exactly the time we should be expecting a combination of obesity and malnutrition to rise. Far too many people simply have no idea what to eat themselves, never mind feed to children.

Pot noodle is a simple nutritious meal I have found which is quite easy to prepare.

[dances with sheeple]

Either that or those on benefits give up their children's food before they give up their fags

Or global food prices have gone up

Or quite possibly other things

Don't pretend you're being more logical, you were just projecting your own prejudices

Or their smack or whatever else they are on, food is not unaffordable in the UK unless you are owing moneylenders and a raving junkie to boot. Children starving is a failure of teachers/social services to speak up/notice the obvious IMO.

[SarahBell]

Food becomes unaffordable if you start your week with takeaway and continue that way.

Schools have had breakfast clubs for many many years.

I would assume every child eats at lunchtime but the case of the boy who starved to death ... Who knows.

You should look what people buy at the supermarket. How many have plenty of vegetables and fruit?

They can't all have allotments!