Cyprus levy --- merged threads

[hirop]

I bet you could hear a pin drop on this evenings eurogroup finance minister's conference call, when asked who okay'd this proposal. There is now know way out for the euro group except for a climb down over a decent portion (if not all) of the 5.8 billion. Anything else will see bank accounts empty as soon as possible now the precendant for blatant theft has been set. They have proper fcuked it this time.

[The Masked Tulip]

It is a high risk strategy taking the savings of people.

Do it to enough people and you run the risk of one or two going nuts and targeting bankers or politicians - let alone some of the super rich who got their money in less than above board ways.

[dances with sheeple]

Young Cypriot Girl on BBC News Europe has destroyed us.

Charlie give yourself a pat on the back you said at the inception of the Euro it would all end in tears.

You were attacked, ridiculed, and told to get a life, your knowledge of finances and economics would only occupy one millionth of your brain cells.

I am now awaiting a call from Osborne appointing me his chief economics adviser regarding EU matters.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

Do it to enough people and you run the risk of one or two going nuts and targeting bankers or politicians...

I was wondering about that ... small island nation, the escape routes from which can be monitored ... high proportion of firearm owners among the population ... bloody-minded streak (think Grivas)...

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

BBC Newspaper Review the Russians are now threatening the EU. The Times

Dave is sending 10 Carriers, 5 Destroyers, 10 Nuclear Subs to the Med. The Russians are sending the Battleship Potemkin

Accusing the Russians of using Cyprus to launder money. Reply required by Errol.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Charlie The Tramp Returns

[SHERWICK]

Cypriot banks lost 4.5bn euros (£3.8bn) - equal to a quarter of the island's gross domestic product - when euro-zone leaders decided to write off Greek debt last year.

As part of its bailout deal, corporate tax will rise from 10% to 12.5%, while state assets will be sold off to help balance the public finances. Cuts to government workers' salaries and pensions have already been approved.

Greek debt was always going to be written down or off. Nothing the EU or anyone else in the world could have done about that.

[gadget]

Cypriot banks lost 4.5bn euros (£3.8bn) - equal to a quarter of the island's gross domestic product - when euro-zone leaders decided to write off Greek debt last year.

That's part of it. But you don't need a 17bn euro bailout after losing only 4.5bn euros....

Thursday is a long time to wait, esp if you needed access to your funds on the Saturday to get food. Must be a lot of people who wait til the weekend to do the weekly shop.

Cash machines, debit cards and credit cards don't stop working on bank holidays. And haven't stopped working in Cyprus (yet)

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

Cash machines, debit cards and credit cards don't stop working on bank holidays. And haven't stopped working in Cyprus (yet)

They say the ATMs are empty, debit cards can be used for purchases but you can bet any large purchase will be rejected, credit cards merely add to the personal debt of the card holder.

[copydude]

It is a high risk strategy taking the savings of people.

Do it to enough people and you run the risk of one or two going nuts

One or two going nuts?

You are the master of understatement, MT.

What do you think would happen in Wales if the banks mysteriously shut until no further defined notice and no one could get any cash for days?

Life is at a complete standstill here in Cyprus. It is worse than Greece. Life has been postponed through total indecision.

You try living with that.

[copydude]

They say the ATMs are empty, debit cards can be used for purchases but you can bet any large purchase will be rejected, credit cards merely add to the personal debt of the card holder.

I am scrabbling by on a credit card for minor purchases. Bank card hasn't worked for days for cash in Limassol.

[Sledgehead]

if thats what it takes for people to wake up so be it, if people start to clamour for depositories, safe boxes, then in tandem they might relearn to think about inflation and markets and state licences and tax advantages, whats not to like

All of the above.

People should learn about medicine, design, engineering, science and technology: things that actually improve our lot, things that you can show the little green men and be proud of, should they exist and ever arrive.

In a sensible, righteous and proper world all advantages to be gained from learning about "the system" would be outlawed and their usage made punishable by imprisonment. Instead we value such knowledge above all else and in doing so make all other occupations seem worthless by comparison. Unsurprisingly our progress remains glacial.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Sledgehead

[scepticus]

[wonderpup]

"Borrowing" and "Lending" are two sides of the same transaction. Two different words for the same thing. How can someone borrow without someone else lending?

Here's the way the magic is created. You go to your bank and deposit £1000 . Later I go to your bank and borrow £1000.

So assuming that the £1000 I borrowed is the same £1000 you deposited-I now have £1000 in my bank and you now have zero in yours?

Or would you say that we both now have £1000? Even though the money you put in is the same money I took out?

If we do- where did the second £1000 come from?

We give the banks the power to create money from thin air in the form of a special currency called bank credit. In theory this power is limited by a reserve ratio- in practice this limit is evaded by the use of various off balance sheet tricks that conceal the true amount of leverage being applied by the banks.

This works really well until people get worried that the magic might wear off and so begin to cross bank credit

off the list of things they decide to accept as money- at which point the banking system implodes-there being at this point too little real money left to settle the outstanding debt that the original credit creation brought into being.

[Giordano Bruno]

I'm a hoarder so I guess I'll be going to Circle IV. I don't actually see what's so wrong with hoarding.

[stormymonday_2011]

Interesting FT article on how the proposed Cyprus Bank levy actually preempts and undermines the planned EU regime to wind up failing banks

It also points out that the Cypriot banks with their high deposit to loan ratio and lack of dependence on the bond market were actually following what was seen to be the most sustainable model post the Lehmans collapse

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/16fbd550-8ff9-11e2-9239-00144feabdc0.html

Another point to note is that while the ECB and the Germans are taking a lot of flak for this fiasco it was the LaGarde at the IMF who was proposing the most drastic seizure of depositors money.

https://mninews.marketnews.com/index.php/imfs-lagarde-will-recommend-imf-contribution-cyprus-plan?q=content/imfs-lagarde-will-recommend-imf-contribution-cyprus-plan

It is noticeable that LaGarde has gone pretty quite now it has all gone pear shaped

Edited March 19, 2013 by stormymonday_2011

[happy_renting]

EUROPONZIBANK INVESTMENTS INC

===============================

Roll Up! Roll Up! The latest fail-safe Money-making Scheme! The EuroPonziBank!

1 ) Start a EuroPonziBank.

2 ) Draw in mugs savers

3 ) Confiscate the saver's money and tell them they are EuroPonziBank shareholders instead, and everything will be fine, as there will be more mugs savers coming along in a minute.

4 ) Draw in more mugs savers

5 ) Rinse and repeat.

Nothing could go wrong with this ponzi scheme business model!

Edited March 19, 2013 by happy_renting

[happy_renting]

yes agree

consensus here in cyprus is that we should dump the euro, default and go back to the pound. it was a very strong currency. to give you some idea, one cy pound = 1.20 sterling

i have a feeling it might happen anyway. shutting the banks til thursday is raising suspicions that they are preparing something. i mean, why prolong the pain ?

and even if they aren't, the vote may not go through. lots of resistance.

Denominations and naming of different currencies is arbitrary. Your statement 'one cy pound = 1.20 sterling' doesn't really tell us anything.

The important bit you omit is that £1 Cyp = £1 UK until 1972. If it rose to £1.20, then it was indeed stronger than the £UK in the period after 1972.

Out of curiousity, if the Euro were converted back into £Cyp at the rate the £Cyp entered the Euro [EUR 1.00 = CYP 0.585274], would it still be stronger than the £UK?

Edit to do the maths:

£1 Cyp = €1.786 based on rate Cyprus entered the Euro in 2008

€1.786 = €1.665 after 6.75% theft levy

£1 UK = €1.17 (Today)

So even with the haircut on bank savings, you would have been MUCH better off (42%!!!) with Cyprus pounds/Euros in a Cypriot bank since 1972, compared with holding sterling (capital , ignoring interest).

The Cyprus pound was stronger that the UK pound in 2008, and since then, the UK pound has fallen against the Euro.

Shows what a boon being a global centre of banking has been for the UK economy.

And consider this - in the UK, the oil is runing out, and shale may not bring rich rewards. If Cyprus leaves the EU, and becomes an independent gas producer, it's economy could boom from this point onwards. Might be the time to buy the dip there.

Edited March 19, 2013 by happy_renting

[copydude]

Another point to note is that while the ECB and the Germans are taking a lot of flak for this fiasco it was the LaGarde at the IMF who was proposing the most drastic seizure of depositors money.

https://mninews.marketnews.com/index.php/imfs-lagarde-will-recommend-imf-contribution-cyprus-plan?q=content/imfs-lagarde-will-recommend-imf-contribution-cyprus-plan

It is noticeable that LaGarde has gone pretty quite now it has all gone pear shaped

Good note, Stormy Monday.

They are all playing the blame game at the moment, now it has gone pear-shaped. The Germans are saying, 'it wasn't us', but Cyprus' Pres is issuing contradictory press releases saying he was arm-twisted.

In fact, this clash was noted by the Cyprus Mail a few days ago. Actually March 10. Link

The top troika officials, including the IMF’s delectable Delia Velculescu, returned to the island of martyrdom to impose their harsh colonial terms on us.

The delightful Delia has been the most trenchant troikan as she represents the ultra neo-liberal IMF and has no interest in European solidarity.

At Thursday’s meeting with fuhrer Nice Nik at the prasidentenpalast she was the only troikan who refused to rule out the haircut of bank deposits. The European Commission was totally opposed to a haircut, according to its troika representative.

There is now a clear divergence between the IMF and the EU. Bottom line: the IMF isn't going to lend anymore to support the Eurocrats impossible dream. The IMF doesn't play to lose.

[Sledgehead]

I will match your hocuss pocus :

and raise you one childish fantasy:

PS, I think you posted in the wrong thread and on the wrong site. May I suggest some christian fundamentalist place where they believe in such things?

[tomandlu]

PS, I think you posted in the wrong thread and on the wrong site. May I suggest some christian fundamentalist place where they believe in such things?

Don't be silly - personally, I find it interesting that both hoarders and the gluttonous (who were presumably not hoarders) are both targeted so harshly. Now, if that command came from God, it wouldn't be that interesting - what's interesting is that people chose to believe that that's how God felt.

[Giordano Bruno]

Here's the way the magic is created. You go to your bank and deposit £1000 . Later I go to your bank and borrow £1000.

So assuming that the £1000 I borrowed is the same £1000 you deposited-I now have £1000 in my bank and you now have zero in yours?

Or would you say that we both now have £1000? Even though the money you put in is the same money I took out?

If we do- where did the second £1000 come from?

We give the banks the power to create money from thin air in the form of a special currency called bank credit. In theory this power is limited by a reserve ratio- in practice this limit is evaded by the use of various off balance sheet tricks that conceal the true amount of leverage being applied by the banks.

This works really well until people get worried that the magic might wear off and so begin to cross bank credit

off the list of things they decide to accept as money- at which point the banking system implodes-there being at this point too little real money left to settle the outstanding debt that the original credit creation brought into being.

I think that expresses my understanding very well.

For me, fractional reserve banking is very like a ponzi scheme. It doesn't lure people in with ridiculously high returns, though. Instead, it offers secure ( ) holding of your money and moderate interest rates. In the other important aspect, that if everyone wants their deposits back at the same time then the bank cannot pay up, it is just like a ponzi.

[cashinmattress]

Listen my followers. Do not take my name if vain, nor ridicule my flock.

And stop making trouble with the bankers, they might end up raising my mortgage rate!

Then I'll really get angry!

[The Masked Tulip]

Member of Cypriot govt just on Fivelive - he said that they will not pass the bill to accept the EU/IMF deal and that his colleagues are talking about leaving the EU.

He said that even if they passed it that there would still be a bank run so there was no point in passing it.

Edited March 19, 2013 by The Masked Tulip

[dances with sheeple]

Member of Cypriot govt just on Fivelive - he said that they will not pass the bill accept the EU/IMF deal and that his colleagues are talking about leaving the EU.

He said that even if they passed it that there would still be a bank run so there was no point in passing it.

GAME ON.

[dances with sheeple]

Member of Cypriot govt just on Fivelive - he said that they will not pass the bill to accept the EU/IMF deal and that his colleagues are talking about leaving the EU.

He said that even if they passed it that there would still be a bank run so there was no point in passing it.

EU stooge was on Bloomberg just before you posted that saying voters still knew that "more europe" or words to that effect, was good for them. He did look a bit uncomfortable, probably knew Cypriot exit was strongly on the cards.