silver surfer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Its possible ECB wish to focus german minds on where they are pushing this if they continue their intransigence. it’s a wake-up call: dear Chancellor Merkel, we are *this* close to watching a Greek banking collapse and euro exit, and are you really sure you want to go down this route? Really, really? Who knows, but it sounds plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limon Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 RBS Economics @RBS_Economics 2h2 hours ago In the words of the great Tom Jones "It's not unusual" #Schaeuble Dont mention the War. Or the Nazis. Yanis managed to do both in a presser sat next to the german Finance Minister and in germany. Quite an achievement. That's not true - he talked about Greece's homegrown Nazis at some length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) They already do this via the ELA - see up the thread.They have the ELA but one suspects that the destination(s) and purpose(s) of the ELA are far more transparent and trackable than the banking TARP turned out to be.So in that respect they might only be comparable on the surface. ELA doesn't seem to be such an "and its gone" financial vehicle. Edited February 5, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 They have the ELA but one suspects that the destination(s) and purpose(s) of the ELA are far more transparent and trackable than the banking TARP turned out to be. So in that respect they might only be comparable on the surface. ELA doesn't seem to be such an "and its gone" financial vehicle. Sure. Its emergency liquidity assistance. Nothing to do with debt restructuring or where to ultimately dump the (german creditor) losses. german taxpayer, all EZ taxpayers, german creditors etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Graeme Wearden retweeted Mehran Khalili @mkhalili 1h1 hour ago Syntagma square anti-austerity protest, just now. Thousands here and ppl still coming. #Greece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 That's not true - he talked about Greece's homegrown Nazis at some length. Indeed. he said the current austerity policy has led to rise of Nazis in greece. Not neo-Nazis. Nazis. he said this in germany sat next to Schauble at a public press conf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Strange to see the chaos a single unfettered mind can wreak in the midst of entrenched mediocrity- whatever the outcome for Greece Varoufakis has performed an invaluable service for the EU in forcing them to at least contemplate the final destination toward which their current policies are taking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Graeme Wearden retweeted Mehran Khalili @mkhalili 1h1 hour ago Syntagma square anti-austerity protest, just now. Thousands here and ppl still coming. #Greece The trouble with democracies is, the people actually believe they are in charge....eventually when the leeches at the top refuse to listen, the people exert their democratic right..... If the greek people dont get what they voted for this time, there will be HUGE trouble, MASSIVE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Sure. Its emergency liquidity assistance. Nothing to do with debt restructuring or where to ultimately dump the (german creditor) losses. german taxpayer, all EZ taxpayers, german creditors etc.It would be great if they all stuck to the "rules" instead of pick 'n' mix everywhere. Edited February 5, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The trouble with democracies is, the people actually believe they are in charge....eventually when the leeches at the top refuse to listen, the people exert their democratic right..... If the greek people dont get what they voted for this time, there will be HUGE trouble, MASSIVE. They'll get more than they voted for when the Grexit comes. Big trouble in little Greece soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfinger Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Euro-revolt! First Greece and now maybe Spain. Grassroots democracy from the left appears to be making a comeback in Europe. This is interesting in itself because the political right is doing the same. Can Europe’s elitist political status quo be maintained? That usually means bad inflation - e.g. French Revolution leading to the Assignat hyperinflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfinger Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The Greeks don't need to borrow any new money. They should simply declare the post-2008 debt odious and return to the drachma. 2-3 yrs of hyperinflation would knock a hole in what's left, a la Weimar Germany, then they can seek agreement with their creditors about servicing the outstanding out of future economic growth, 3-4% of GDP/yr ought to be sufficient. They'd be much poorer collectively, of course, but economic stability and international credit would soon be restored and they'd be free to set about rehabilitating the country in good faith. Agreed. In fact, maybe all of Europe should simply default on their external debt, and be over with it. Then everyone can decide whether they want to keep the Euro, or search for alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Strange to see the chaos a single unfettered mind can wreak in the midst of entrenched mediocrity- whatever the outcome for Greece Varoufakis has performed an invaluable service for the EU in forcing them to at least contemplate the final destination toward which their current policies are taking them. hes met with looks of stunned incredulity and denial wherever he goes. Theyve all been so brainwashed by the Schwabian hausfrau garbage they dont know which way is up anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfinger Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Theyve all been so brainwashed by the Schwabian hausfrau garbage they dont know which way is up anymore. I do not let anyone talk down on Schwaebische Hausfrauen, especially if they are able to bake a delicious Hefezopf with a lot of butter in it. If you were referring to Merkel, she is from the Uckermark. Calling her Swabian would be as if you called Alex Salmond an Englishman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 http://www.coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/what-on-earth-is-ecb-up-to.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Goldfish Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Are these unexpected German and French peace talks with Putin linked to the Greece situation in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 hes met with looks of stunned incredulity and denial wherever he goes. Theyve all been so brainwashed by the Schwabian hausfrau garbage they dont know which way is up anymore. My god, you are an idiot...NOBODY FORCED the GREEKS into their current position. They got into the EU by fraud themselves, they remained in by obtaining and taking further loans from the EU, they agreed to the terms for taking the loans. The EU and other lenders also KNEW what Greece was all about when they offered the help, they KNEW the risks. They have all been idiots. Now there is no way out as the lying and theivery in Greece has caught out the lying and thievery in the IMF, the EU and the ECB. The last thing liars and thieves want is to get caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well, my popcorn going a bit stale now tbh, not much happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well, my popcorn going a bit stale now tbh, not much happening. You're better waiting till the hot summer months, july and august could be a bit more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well, my popcorn going a bit stale now tbh, not much happening. This is going to take Months to play out..... Syriza will need to try and camouflage the fact they are not getting many reforms from the people who elected them. In the end it will come down to the wire.Grexit or debt relief (If the new Greek governing party is to be believed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Are these unexpected German and French peace talks with Putin linked to the Greece situation in any way? No. They are linked to German and French, particularly German, reliance on Russian gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Are these unexpected German and French peace talks with Putin linked to the Greece situation in any way? Puting spoke to the Greek PM yesterday - Putin and Tsipras have agreed to boost cooperation in the economy and energy, tourism, culture and transport sectors; and discussed the possible creation of a pipeline to carry natural gas from Russia to Europe via Turkey and Greece. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-05/shunned-greece-agrees-boost-economic-cooperation-russia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 My god, you are an idiot...NOBODY FORCED the GREEKS into their current position.They got into the EU by fraud themselves, they remained in by obtaining and taking further loans from the EU, they agreed to the terms for taking the loans. The EU and other lenders also KNEW what Greece was all about when they offered the help, they KNEW the risks. They have all been idiots. Now there is no way out as the lying and theivery in Greece has caught out the lying and thievery in the IMF, the EU and the ECB. The last thing liars and thieves want is to get caught. "...I am hesitant to introduce what may seem like class warfare, but if you separate those who benefitted the most from European policies before the crisis from those who befitted the least, and are now expected to pay the bulk of the adjustment costs, rather than posit a conflict between Germans and Spaniards [or Greeks], it might be far more accurate to posit a conflict between the business and financial elite on one side (along with EU officials) and workers and middle class savers on the other. This is a conflict among economic groups, in other words, and not a national conflict, although it is increasingly hard to prevent it from becoming a national conflict..." Syriza and the French indemnity of 1871 (long) Summary: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/02/06/2113951/michael-pettis-explains-the-euro-crisis-and-a-lot-of-other-things-too/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Greek debt just downgraded from B to B- From junk to junker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfinger Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Greek debt just downgraded from B to B- From junk to junker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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