SHERWICK Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Including Anders Behring Breivik? Well, everyone except him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 German courts against Euro bail-out http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8790799/Germany-at-war-over-eurozone-bail-out.html Bundesbank President against Euro bail-out http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,788352,00.html Suggest tin hats at the ready. In fact, stick them on now and firmly secure chin strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Evidence? The whole of human history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 German courts against Euro bail-out http://www.telegraph...e-bail-out.html Bundesbank President against Euro bail-out http://www.spiegel.d...,788352,00.html Suggest tin hats at the ready. In fact, stick them on now and firmly secure chin strap. maybe in this case tin pots and bum straps are appropriate? Can`t wait for this mother to blow, have been dreaming of this for three years etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Including Anders Behring Breivik? Could he afford to buy WMDs? Besides, Norway's tough gun laws didn't stop him getting a gun and killing a bunch of people anyway. As the USA has a load of nukes and has been the only country to use one, the current situation hardly fills me with confidence anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 The whole of human history I dunno about that. Aggressive states seem to have attacked just about every region of the planet. It's not like we didn't attack Somalia (it was a conquest of Europe's) and Afghanistan has damn near bankrupted two superpowers so far and that's just in recent history. IMO, the difference now is communication. The Internet is changing the world, making it smaller and exposing governments of every country to unheard of scrutiny. I doubt as many still believe that current governments are a force for good as they did even 10 or 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I wouldn't hold your breath. So far, the 'people' of Europe have shown that they will basically go along with anything. True only so far. The few left on the fast disappearing welfare cushions are already getting uncomfortable. Those meeting the sharp end of austerity will do exactly as the Greeks. Greece faces austerity strike as default looms By ELENA BECATOROS, Associated Press – 12 hours ago ATHENS, Greece (AP) — As the prospect of a disastrous debt default hung over Greece, the government faced strikes and protests Monday against new austerity measures needed to appease the country's rescue creditors. Athens metro, tram and suburban rail workers held a 24-hour strike, while buses and trolleys were to stop operating for several hours. Airline passengers also faced delays as traffic controllers implemented work-to-rule action, refusing to work overtime. A 48-hour strike by all transport workers is expected later this week. Greek police held their own protest, with the Special Guards unit hanging a giant black banner from the top of Lycabettus Hill in the capital reading "Pay day, day of mourning." Sorry, not even the Police are going along with it. It's been banks versus people for a while now. The politicians have chosen the banks up to now. If politicians don't jump ship soon, I think it will be heads on railings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Those with dreams of anarchist societies can forget them while there are nukes or other WMDs out there (or even just the know-how to build them). Will we take turns with custody of the launch codes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ungoverned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8790785/German-turmoil-over-EU-bail-outs-as-top-judge-calls-for-referendum.html Andreas Vosskuhle, head of the constitutional court, said politicians do not have the legal authority to sign away the birthright of the German people without their explicit consent."The sovereignty of the German state is inviolate and anchored in perpetuity by basic law. It may not be abandoned by the legislature (even with its powers to amend the constitution)," he said. "There is little leeway left for giving up core powers to the EU. If one wants to go beyond this limit – which might be politically legitimate and desirable – then Germany must give itself a new constitution. A referendum would be necessary. This cannot be done without the people," he told newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine. Looks like the Judges have had enough and perhaps won't rubber stamp anymore bailouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8790799/Germany-at-war-over-eurozone-bail-out.html Confirmation of the talks, however, sparked outrage in Germany, where opposition politicians threatened to derail the plans by voting against a key amendment to the bail-out fund this Thursday.The head of Germany's constitutional court also piled on the pressure by warning the government not to circumvent the law "by the back door". Despite the wrangling in Germany, markets across Europe staggered back to life on hopes that the crisis could be contained and the recovery restored. Looks like it's still far from a done deal yet. The markets need to have another paddy to ensure the Germans stump up the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/germanys-fdp-merkel-should-make-clear-immediately-there-no-change-business-model-efsf While overnight markets are rocking based on continued speculation coming from some completely uncorroborated and unconfirmed source that Europe has just boldly gone where even Goldman's Abacus has not dared to go before courtesy of the ECB's acceptance of a CDO squared "Enron Special" SPV, Germany has once again made it very clear that not only will there not be any expansion in the EFSF in regular terms, but certainly not in structural ones. As Goldman's Dirk Schumacher makes it very clear, any attempts at imposing on Germany a fait accompli reality that has no bearing in actual reality (especially one that excludes the only relevant decision-maker in Europe) will be met with increasing protests from the entire German ruling class. According to Die Welt, the Free Democratic Party is threatening to vote against overhaul of EFSF if discussions about leveraging fund don’t stop. Goldman elaborates: "FDP and CSU not fond of further increase of EFSF. Leading figures from the FDP and the CSU, the Bavarian branch of the CDU, rejected any thoughts of a further increase of the EFSF (either directly or indirectly through leverage). FDP general secretary Lindner said that "the chancellor should make clear immediately that there is no change to the business model of the EFSF." So, yes, consider that an official denial of the Liesman rumor which as typical, has no confirmation anywhere else. Leveraging this bailout fund is suicidal. Timmy is trying to shaft Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Leveraging this bailout fund is suicidal. Timmy is trying to shaft Europe. Has he wielded his dollar funding axe? The rating agencies will agree to this leverage but later will downgrade it and make them pay more interest. US financial sector dipping into the pockets of European taxpayers every month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8790785/German-turmoil-over-EU-bail-outs-as-top-judge-calls-for-referendum.html Looks like the Judges have had enough and perhaps won't rubber stamp anymore bailouts. Uh oh. My nazi sense is tingling. We really don't want the germans talking about stuff they are owed as a birthright, do we. Next up they'll be talking how they need more legroom and greek beaches will do just fine..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beccles Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Greece update A shortage of ink is preventing the computerised tax centre at the finance ministry from sending out claims to tax payers FT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Worth a few more Yep, the Germans will be impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Greece update A shortage of ink is preventing the computerised tax centre at the finance ministry from sending out claims to tax payers FT FT? Shouldn't that be FFS? Yep, the Germans will be impressed Surely they know by now the Greeks will tear up the claim forms even when printed. A full-scale tax revolt will be the first thing to happen in Greece . . . in fact it's already started over the VAT. I seriously hope the Germans are unimpressed and stop this whole insanity of the leveraged EFSF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Is that due to Greek Austerity measures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/69902e72-e926-11e0-af7b-00144feab49a.html#axzz1ZBS8jvz9 Because of the recent economic downturn and Greece’s slow implementation of austerity measures, officials estimate Athens’ funding needs over the next three years have grown beyond the €172bn forecast this summer. The scale of the shortfall will be determined by international lenders over the next few weeks. Link via Denniger article Fantastic news for the bailout happy clappers, Greece needs even more than than the 2nd prediction. Still at least the FTSE is up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeffrandall/8788501/Eurozone-crisis-there-are-no-miracles-in-Greek-tragedies.html The fallacy at the heart of this crisis is that every financial problem has a political solution. If only. Yet the Brussels elite and its co-conspirators at the IMF continue to promise that by “doing all it takes” they will, somehow, defy indefinitely economic gravity. This illusion of political primacy is perpetuated because a confession of impotence would not only undermine the worth of those in power but also expose the euro’s fatal flaw: monetary union without fiscal union is a marriage that weds the prudent to the profligate with no control over the latter’s spending.Voters who were taught that debt-fuelled consumption was the path to prosperity are now shocked to discover that the racket is bust. Unwilling to accept the agony that comes with retrenchment, they expect those in charge to administer analgesics. In the short run, chary of disappointing the electorate, pusillanimous ministers load up the system with financial morphine. For a while it feels good. Then the patient demands a bigger fix, and another, and another. Eventually the drug providers wake up to a nightmare: the syringe is empty. When costs rise exponentially, even the rich run out of money. An interesting article from Jeff Randall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Has anyone posted the details of the new Greek 'property tax' that went through today? The level of owner occupancy in Greece is surprisingly high at 70%, what is in the UK at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I have been thinking for ages there will be some huge multi national sovereign debt write off. Exactly how this would happen is a mystery though. However we are being told that perhaps half of Greece debt could be 'written off'. How exactly do they plan to do this ? And if so will others follow ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I have been thinking for ages there will be some huge multi national sovereign debt write off. Exactly how this would happen is a mystery though. However we are being told that perhaps half of Greece debt could be 'written off'. How exactly do they plan to do this ? And if so will others follow ? They write off by swapping say a EUR 1,000,000 bond which they can't repay for a new EUR 500,000 bond which they now promise to repay. See re Argentina's default - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 They write off by swapping say a EUR 1,000,000 bond which they can't repay for a new EUR 500,000 bond which they now promise to repay. See re Argentina's default - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_debt_restructuring Yes but they promised to pay back the original EUR 1,000,000 bond ................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Yes but they promised to pay back the original EUR 1,000,000 bond ................ The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. ~Niccolo Machiavelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. ~Niccolo Machiavelli So why can't many countries do this - all the debt is halved - and suddenly there is not such a great debt crisis afterall and everything is hunky dory ? Well - I assume people would think the whole thing was a bit of a sham - although they think that already so would it make a huge difference. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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