More Graduates Taking Low-Skill Jobs - Report

[PrivateerMk2]

I've never worked in food or retail, explain?

Is this something to do with Mc-status, chain of Mc-command when you work there?

Yeah; once your face is completely full of the Acne of Command they starting giving you stars on a badge.

It's like strikes in baseball, but if you get three stars you're out of society.

[macca]

If today's graduates are really so bright, why don't they either leave the country where their skills may be better valued and overheads lower, or use their ticker to create wealth instead of relying on others to use them as work slaves? They have the whole world at their fingertips with the internet and have collective access to plenty of graduate level employees at minimum wage so I really cannot see why so many of these 'bright sparks' are still insisting on taking jobs from the likes of Tesco and B&Q that lower skilled workers need right now.

[LJAR]

What is is about the UK that has to sneer at anyone who works in business?

The attitude seems to be that the only socially acceptable jobs are those that are loosely termed the "professions" or the civil service.

Tesco, Mcdonalds etc are damn good businesses there are worse places to learn how to be successful in the world. They are also good at promoting from within - on talent and hard work , try that in the civil service.

This perplexes more than anything because I grew up in the US and Canada where most of society seems to aspire to business ownership and being their own boss.

Business is simple so why don't more people go for it?

I genuinely can't wrap my head around it

[Lagarde's Drift]

Many people prefer to sneer at McDonald's, rather than do a bit of research and find out how many of their board started off as burger flippers. It's the British way.

[wonderpup]

Many people prefer to sneer at McDonald's, rather than do a bit of research and find out how many of their board started off as burger flippers. It's the British way.

Would McDonald's uk operation still be viable if the wages of their low paid employees were not effectively subsidised via the tax credits and benefits system?

What the corporations conveniently overlook is the degree to which their business models are only viable in a context where the local populations and infrastructure are propped up by the state- a state they seek at all times to deprive of tax revenue.

So to style these entities as paragons of free enterprise is a bit misleading- they are in may ways clients of the state. Even their casual ability to shed labour at the drop of a hat with little cost only really works because the state rushes in to pick up the pieces.

[spyguy]

I entirely agree. I'm sick of being made to work like a dog in a sweat shop because the company I work for has cut admin staff to the bone meaning I do a lot of my own admin and tasks of a lower skill level as well as the actual job I'm supposed to do. I don't mean this to sound like some "that work is beneath me" comment, it's just financially not viable to have someone of my salary doing it, but that is what happens, and so because of increased costs because of my decreased output they cut back further on other admin areas. On the spreadsheet the beancounter thought it was cheaper, yet they are surprised by the figures at the end of the year when reality doesn't match their theory. I'd much rather people of my grade take a pay cut AND a large percentage of the middle management bureaucracy stop worrying about if I've compeleted my timesheet, grab a spade, and get shovelling on the front line with me AND the directors stop pocketing ludicruous bonus's like kiddies in a sweatshop. Everybody would get a much better work / life balance and more jobs would be created and society would be much nicer. Incidentally, I think Directors of PLC's bonus's should be x multiples of the average bonus paid to everyone in the company and their company funded pension arrangements should be in the same as everyone elses (no Fred Goodwin special pensions).

It's ludicrous to have some people working 50+ hours a week so they pay enough tax to pay for others to work none with no medical reason. Even taking into account skill differences there's generally admin functions of peoples job that they could jettison so that the short supply highly skilled can reduce their hours also. I believe most people would like a job, just one that they see a noticeable benefit from doing and not our current setup of taking an income cut to leave benefits for a NMW job which is obviously a major barrier.

Two seperate points:

1) Accountants sack the low-paid and expect slack to be pickedup. Been thru in the early 90s - middle management running around shutting lights off. It was cheaper to sack the management and keep the lights on. As it panned out that was what happened. Its cheaper to have a computer doing the accounts and change your business to suit the accountancy software rather than put up with accountants.

2) Paying for people not to work. I agree. get a work fare system in place. You save % of tax to pay for 2 years unemployment. After that you have to take a up or all benefits removed. If you unemployed in the South then forcibly relocate to Grange Town middlesbrough where there is en excess of social hosuing. Tough. Ihad to move south for work. Why can;t people move north for benefit?

[spyguy]

Unfortunately young man, you will now have to compete with people who were focused driven teenagers (from all over the world) when you grow up so you'd better buckle down and work now !! It will be too late when you wake up at 30 years old and find you only have skills to work in the fast food sector .

You sure? Teenagers tend to be very influenced by their parents i.e. taking their career advice from people who might not have had to compete in the work env for 30 odd years. The worlds has changed.

Look at the number of leemings lining up to do law degrees. Its insane. 20% only go on to LPC, then half that get training contract.s

[StainlessSteelCat]

I think the principle of creating a better educated population is a good and necessary one (after all developing countries are trying to do just that). In the long term - it's the only way to stay competitive.

Unfortunately, it looks the focus of education may be wrong in terms of skills taught. We perhaps need lots more graduates and others who can creatively solve problems that people will pay to be solved and can bootstrap new businesses on their own if necessary (ideally while still in the relative safety of higher education and have plenty of youthful energy). It costs practically nowt to start up on your own nowadays (if you have the skills and are willing to put the time in).

These will then become the employers of the rest of us.

Ideally, the solutions to the problems need to be difficult to replicate and it needs to be coupled with an understanding that it is a continuous process (we can't afford to rest on our laurels). That can be in high technology, engineering, biotech, internet etc (I had high hopes for green tech in the UK but the Government seems to be dropping the ball - again) and also to a certain extent the media industries (but only if they have an eye to the global or very local audience).

In short, we need more graduates who are educated to be self starters (and are provided with the support and opportunities to help make it happen).

Edited May 15, 2011 by StainlessSteelCat

[ken_ichikawa]

Would McDonald's uk operation still be viable if the wages of their low paid employees were not effectively subsidised via the tax credits and benefits system?

A better model is the peopleperhour thing, since it is almost all under the table you can see as to how much things REALLY cost in terms of skills and jobs being done.

[aa3]

When I was at school (only several years ago) - Everything was drilled towards what University are you going to, what course are you going to do, all the careers meetings I went to pretty much focuses on the same thing too.

Looking back on it I think it was pretty awful as University just isn't required or necessary for most jobs and I wish I'd been a bit more 'world savvy' before hand because ultimately I've wasted a few years of my life in terms of career/education in my finally chosen field.

Good thing you figured it out while still young. The education system filled with teachers.. drills into kids that they need to get more education from teachers.

The reality imo is unless you are going to be a certified professional that requires university, university is a waste of time. I have to laugh at some young women I talk to who are things like nail technicians and saying they are excited to be going back to school so they can move on up. I have to tell them you do realize girls who do nails make more money than most university graduates? And the owner of the nail salon probably makes more than all but the most successful of the university grads?

[John The Pessimist]

Nothing to see here, move along now........This entire thread is a non-story. 15 years ago I graduated and started in a "low skills" job. So did every other graduate I knew, irrespective of the discipline they qualified in. Meds ran for lab results and x-rays, law grads became expert photocopiers, accountancy trainees counted invoices and receipts.

This is only a story because the current generation of media studies grads expect to be editing award winning documentaries the week they come out of college. I see this because I interview graduates regularly. Those who realise that for a short while they are on the bottom of the food chain will be fine. They'll knuckle down, learn the job/trade/profession, and progress. Those that don't, will be the next generation of bitter whingers decrying a "system that failed them". They'll probably end up as mods on HPC

[ken_ichikawa]

Those who realise that for a short while they are on the bottom of the food chain will be fine. They'll knuckle down, learn the job/trade/profession, and progress.

Not always, as said 15 years ago you didn't have to compete with outsourcing and insourcing as well as increasing automation.

[Lagarde's Drift]

Not always, as said 15 years ago you didn't have to compete with outsourcing and insourcing as well as increasing automation.

Yup, this chap is another example of those who just don't get it. It's a pyramid scheme, thus the rewards are much greater at the top than they are for those at the bottom, given the same amount of effort.

There are people now running around photocopying for free, as so-called interns, eventually they will have to pay for the privilege in the hope of getting a job. In fact, that's kinda what's happening as new graduates find that their initial degree means nothing and they have to pay for further education / courses / bits of tatty paper just to get a job (things that their predecessors never had to do, thus do not understand).

[the coming storm]

If today's graduates are really so bright, why don't they either leave the country where their skills may be better valued and overheads lower, or use their ticker to create wealth instead of relying on others to use them as work slaves? They have the whole world at their fingertips with the internet and have collective access to plenty of graduate level employees at minimum wage so I really cannot see why so many of these 'bright sparks' are still insisting on taking jobs from the likes of Tesco and B&Q that lower skilled workers need right now.

Exactly - Sick, sore and tired of Graduates types who simply have an over inflated sense of their own abilities, and when it actually comes down to it are not really that bright at all - they play the system take the easiest modules/courses, produce dissertations that add no value, just a waste of paper.

Surely if your bright enough and hard working- then employers would be bending over backwards to have you part of their company - or better still you'd be so bright as the OP states could go out and setup your own Business, without having to rely on employers.

[wonderpup]

or better still you'd be so bright as the OP states could go out and setup your own Business, without having to rely on employers.

The reason they got degrees was precisely to seek employment- that is, after all, the raison d'être of paper qualifications. And they had been advised to do this very thing by every authority figure in their world since primary school. It's just a bit too easy to now turn around and blame them for taking the path everyone was driving them down since childhood.

You could argue that their education failed them to the degree that it fostered and instilled this dependency on employers- but this overlooks the main point of having an education system, which is to produce pliant skilled workers to service the economy.

To accuse the end product of a system designed to produce worker drones of being a worker drone is accurate but fails to capture the degree to which this mindset has been engineered- it's not about being 'bright', it's about decades of indoctrination into the idea that being an employee is the only way to go.

[miko]

- they play the system take the easiest modules/courses,

Funny that you find that so wrong .

" they play the system take the easiest modules/courses "

Every company in the country will take the easiest route to profit , ever heard a bussiness man say spend £10 when £5 will be enough, ever heard a bussiness man say let's employ 10 people when 8 will be enough. Playing the system and taking the easiest route is surley the best bussiness practice that any company can take , so why not employ the people who are cunning enough to do the same.

[DebtFree2011]

The reason they got degrees was precisely to seek employment- that is, after all, the raison d'être of paper qualifications. And they had been advised to do this very thing by every authority figure in their world since primary school. It's just a bit too easy to now turn around and blame them for taking the path everyone was driving them down since childhood.

You could argue that their education failed them to the degree that it fostered and instilled this dependency on employers- but this overlooks the main point of having an education system, which is to produce pliant skilled workers to service the economy.

To accuse the end product of a system designed to produce worker drones of being a worker drone is accurate but fails to capture the degree to which this mindset has been engineered- it's not about being 'bright', it's about decades of indoctrination into the idea that being an employee is the only way to go.

I agree. The education system is failing. The eduction system doesn't encourage free thinking.

[blackgoose]

ever heard a bussiness man say let's employ 10 people when 8 will be enough.

Never heard someone say it, but have seen plenty do it in companies that they do not own or hold shares in. It is called "Empire Building", and designed as an ego trip for them, and possibly to argue that they should get paid more.

However, I agree that a degree is just a bit of paper signifying 3 years of attending lectures and probably getting drunk with their friends without worrying about a job. Businesses should be able to filter out between the media studies/ fine arts students from former polys and harder degrees from better universities.

[deeplyblue]

If I were to go to University today I would do as bread and butter a degree as possible, medicine or law and make sure it was from a top-flight University; so you'd need to buckle down from about 14 and gear everything to passing the exams with top-flight marks.

Medicine or law at a top-flight university requires really really good grades, plus the right "profile". And how many kids are going to realise at 14 that what they want is going to take lots and lots of hard work between the ages of 14 and 18? And then stick at it.

Half of them still think they can make as a professional footballer or rock musician. What's really tragic is when the parents believe it too

db.

[Tiger Woods?]

Perhaps the really interesting question is; what to do with the people we don't need at all?

Our entire system is based on the idea that people will work and thus gain access to the goods and services they need to survive- but we have been busily developing all sorts of 'labour saving' technologies designed to eliminate that work- leaving some people with no means to survive unless supported by others- who then resent being made to support them.

Combine this with a 'winner takes all' style of capitalism and it's hard to see how the benign future we were promised comes about- if anything we look like heading into a social abyss where the have nots are increasingly marginalised leading to ever more repressive measures to contain them.

+1 This is the major question of the next few decades. I suspect things will pan out as you suggest.

[PrivateerMk2]

You could argue that their education failed them to the degree that it fostered and instilled this dependency on employers- but this overlooks the main point of having an education system, which is to produce pliant skilled workers to service the economy.

You're wrong. That's merely why we have our education system. It was not always thus, and need not be now or in the future.

[chris25]

Nothing to see here, move along now........This entire thread is a non-story. 15 years ago I graduated and started in a "low skills" job. So did every other graduate I knew, irrespective of the discipline they qualified in. Meds ran for lab results and x-rays, law grads became expert photocopiers, accountancy trainees counted invoices and receipts.

This is only a story because the current generation of media studies grads expect to be editing award winning documentaries the week they come out of college. I see this because I interview graduates regularly. Those who realise that for a short while they are on the bottom of the food chain will be fine. They'll knuckle down, learn the job/trade/profession, and progress. Those that don't, will be the next generation of bitter whingers decrying a "system that failed them". They'll probably end up as mods on HPC

Disagree.

The trouble is now there are no jobs for normal people.

The modern western economy only favours the "Clever clog" types i.e. engineers, doctors, software designers, etc or the extremely motivated, aggressive business men type.

The clever clogs can move from country to country, from west to east, and their skills are well paid for as a result.

Very, very few posses the mental ability to be clever clogs. I would say 15% of the population can at the most.

[StainlessSteelCat]

Disagree.

The trouble is now there are no jobs for normal people.

The modern western economy only favours the "Clever clog" types i.e. engineers, doctors, software designers, etc or the extremely motivated, aggressive business men type.

The clever clogs can move from country to country, from west to east, and their skills are well paid for as a result.

Very, very few posses the mental ability to be clever clogs. I would say 15% of the population can at the most.

I'd mostly agree with this. Unskilled/semi-skilled jobs are vanishing fast (unless they have to be done locally) - and it's gradually moving up the food chain. I can't see professions like accountancy coming back after the recession for example (except in specialised areas). Too much of it can be outsourced or automated.

[Tonkers]

I agree. The education system is failing. The eduction system doesn't encourage free thinking.

Well, that's what parents are for, you can't rely on getting a great teacher in a situation where the teacher has time for some to give the attention and you can respond. In fact, I had a really good teacher, but only because I received a good education at home, and I was noticeable.

[PopGun]

Surely it's the highly paid 'clever clogs' that will lose out the most in the coming decades, given the sheer amount of cheaper global alternatives waiting to replace them?!

It's laughable how the the skilled think they're untouchable. Globalists should be careful in what they wish for.