How To Survive When Housing Costs So Much?

[miko]

£14k? Was that council or something? Or maybe that was just the mortgage and they had a good deposit?

No agent I tried showed me details of *anything* below low-20s, and believe me, I trawled many of them before changing tack to a move away from London! And a year later, when I got a pay review and 20% rise, house prices were up 20% too.

Of course rents were lower in £ terms, but they were much higher relative to salaries or house prices.

FWIW, my pay at the time was £6660. Many of my contemporaries from Cambridge were on under £6k, but a good degree in Maths and a job in IT in central London paid rather more than some.

It was a 1 bed coversion in East Ham , they paid £17k and borrowed the £14k , you must just have missed the boat as they really did move up quickly after that . 1 year later when my brother was more secure in his job they sold for £22k and bought a house , they were really pissed off as they paid £28k for a house , if they had risked it in 83 and not worried about my brothers job they could have bought the house much cheaper than £28k. Around the same time my other brother bought a house in Dagenham for just £20k .

By 1986 when i paid £34,500 for a small new build two bed flat in Barking people were pointing me out at work , and saying things like that idiot over there £34,500 and its a flat not even a house. Those figures look so small now i dought there is anything left in those areas which are the cheapest parts of london under £100k , and thats with the current drops.

[miko]

Had a look, same road but terraced rather than semi was £474k....what I am saying is when there are better safer places to invest money people will do so.....in those days the rich had large portfolios of stocks & shares growing and earning very nice dividends.

IMO Housing will not be especially attractive where prices are already high...investors need to identify markets that lag behind...property is in a bubble, bubbles can stay inflated for a while, just a matter of time...the triggers will be higher interest rates/continuating recession/central bank tightening due to inflation/regulation.

£474k so the semi would be at the half a million pounds mark , unbelievable !!! They have risen 12x their original price since then. I bet the wages of those that bought at 40k have not risen quite so fast.

[winkie]

£474k so the semi would be at the half a million pounds mark , unbelievable !!! They have risen 12x their original price since then. I bet the wages of those that bought at 40k have not risen quite so fast.

Of course they haven't...the reason why they were £40k is either people didn't want them, couldn't afford them or they couldn't get the money to pay for them, otherwise they would have been higher than that...........easy credit provided by the banks together with extra low interest rates has caused a bubble that has benefited a few.....I am not happy with this, I know it can't continue like this, our youngsters and their growing families will not put up with the theft of their security by those in control of monetary policy.

[dandandan]

to go back to the OP, when i first moved to london about 8 years ago, i was earning 14k pre tax (about 970 a month after tax). i lived in a shared house with some mates and it cost 550 a month incl bills, it cost 90 a month in transport to and from work.

i had to make sacrifices (didnt buy clothes, or eat out too much) but still really enjoyed myself, still went on big nights out, went to a lot of gigs and went snowboarding at the end of the year... i didnt do weekend breaks or fancy meals, i had no phone contract (payg) etc. i now earn quite a bit more and thanks to sharing with my girlfriend and a mate pay less in monthly rent and bills. i treat myself a bit more and take another holiday or two but i pocket the most part of the difference.

i didnt live in my overdraught, i just budgeted properly. if i had a cheap month i would put it aside rather than spend it, which is really all i do now.

Edited May 18, 2010 by dandandan

[miko]

Of course they haven't...the reason why they were £40k is either people didn't want them, couldn't afford them or they couldn't get the money to pay for them, otherwise they would have been higher than that...........easy credit provided by the banks together with extra low interest rates has caused a bubble that has benefited a few.....I am not happy with this, I know it can't continue like this, our youngsters and their growing families will not put up with the theft of their security by those in control of monetary policy.

Agreed look at what i wrote in post 23

[winkie]

Agreed look at what i wrote in post 23

We agree that is why we are here......there is no such thing as a free lunch, everything has to be paid for, now it is pay back time

[Goat]

But the key difference then was people could buy, feel poor for a few years and then watch as the mortgage became insignificant due to inflation.

Right now the prices continue to rise having already gone up stupidly in the last 13 years, but wages haven't risen anywhere near as  much.

Something will have to give, and its either massive long run deflation which will eventually hit housing or else its inflation which will eventually hit wages.

+1

People felt poor for a couple of years becuase they were paying off 10% of the mortgage each year. After a couple of years they'd paid off a large chunk of the loan and what was left looked pretty small.

Nowadays people feel poor paying off 2% of the loan each year, after a few years they'll have paid off f*** all, so they'll keep feeling poor.

[campervanman]

Due to changing circumstances, I might be taking up a full time job on a salary of £20,000 pa, which is about £1300 per month take-home pay.

Rental prices seem to start at £500 pcm for a studio / 1 bed. With bills, I reckon this would come to about £650 per month, just to put a roof over my head - half my take home pay.

This seems scarily high to me - leaves me just £650 a month to pay for everything....... Am I missing something? How do people make this work?

Ok, I could share a house, but at late thirties, this isn't very appealing and certainly not long-term. Or I could get partnered-up - but that's not always so easy! Or I could get a better paid job - ok, I could, but this isn't an option for everyone and £20k isn't so far below the UK average.

So my questions are -

Shouldn't it be possible to have a reasonable standard of living on a full time salary of £20k? (The IFS put this almost exactly in the middle of UK household income distribution.)

Shouldn't I expect to be able to afford a 2 bedroom flat?

Has it always been this expensive in the UK, or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it the same in other European countries?

Or should I just accept my lot, shut up and run up some huge credit card bills like everyone else?

Nah, when I were a lad back in 1977 buying a house were a piece of p155. I was clearing 200 a month and only paying out 100 a month mortgage. Of course we didn't get any help with childcare or tax credits though and basic rate income tax was only 33%. No car tax or insurance to pay either as it was the bus,pushbike or feet to get to work and do the shopping. Yeah we had it easy then not like you poor things today.

Edited May 18, 2010 by campervanman

[grizzly bear]

Due to changing circumstances, I might be taking up a full time job on a salary of £20,000 pa, which is about £1300 per month take-home pay.

Rental prices seem to start at £500 pcm for a studio / 1 bed. With bills, I reckon this would come to about £650 per month, just to put a roof over my head - half my take home pay.

This seems scarily high to me - leaves me just £650 a month to pay for everything....... Am I missing something? How do people make this work?

Ok, I could share a house, but at late thirties, this isn't very appealing and certainly not long-term. Or I could get partnered-up - but that's not always so easy! Or I could get a better paid job - ok, I could, but this isn't an option for everyone and £20k isn't so far below the UK average.

So my questions are -

Shouldn't it be possible to have a reasonable standard of living on a full time salary of £20k? (The IFS put this almost exactly in the middle of UK household income distribution.)

Shouldn't I expect to be able to afford a 2 bedroom flat?

Has it always been this expensive in the UK, or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it the same in other European countries?

Or should I just accept my lot, shut up and run up some huge credit card bills like everyone else?

In 1997 I started work as graduate earning £16k (in London) and my rent was £80 a week - this was a 3 person share. A 2 person share would have cost £100 per week and a one bedroom flat around £150 per week, so similar to what you are paying now. It was far too expensive, of course I couldn't afford it. Even a 2 bedroom share seemed like a lot... so I guess you need to accept your lot. Sounds about right.

So I would conclude that rents haven't actually moved that much. However then buying was much cheaper than renting, now it s the other way around.

[Si1]

Yes

Was at a wedding a few weeks back and looking around at the mid late forties people , I saw two things that struck me

1. Most had left school at 16 and all had their own homes that they had bought in mid twenties .

2. Their offspring had all gone on to higher education "A" levels or uni but were earning very little and i could see no way that unless inflation in wages or deflation in houses happens none of them are going to be able to buy a house.

and quite few of them realise how lucky they are, in my experience

[Si1]

The startling thing about the OP's position, is if he/she didn't bother to go to work, they would only be £56 a week (net) better off than claiming JSA and other numerous benefits. You could easily make that up on the black market.

http://www.turn2us.e...05-be4da926db44

you could make that up by not having to commute (£25 per week) and shopping at a discount supermarket

[Guest DestroyBrown]

I find rents vary VASTLY depending on which town you want to live in.

I have found 2 places (250 miles apart). In town A, you can rent a 3 bed house with a driveway for the same price as 1 bed flat in town B.

[worldwindow]

If you want to know why the rent for a 1 bed flat is so high, try having a look at housing benefit for your area. What you'll find is that rents at the bottom end of the market track housing benefit very closely.

Bear this in mind when you're paying £150 a month or so in council tax to get a nice warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Well, I hadn't heard this before, but a quick look would reveal housing benefit of about £115 per week - magically £498 per month. So there'll never be any way that rents will be significantly less than this? Depressing.......

Thanks for all the replies, although still waiting for that magic bullet idea to solve the problem..... maybe George Osborne will help me out

[OnlyMe]

Well, I hadn't heard this before, but a quick look would reveal housing benefit of about £115 per week - magically £498 per month. So there'll never be any way that rents will be significantly less than this? Depressing.......

Thanks for all the replies, although still waiting for that magic bullet idea to solve the problem..... maybe George Osborne will help me out

Write to him.

Ask him why you should bother to work, if you don't get a good answer, well.......

[Si1]

Well, I hadn't heard this before, but a quick look would reveal housing benefit of about £115 per week - magically £498 per month. So there'll never be any way that rents will be significantly less than this? Depressing.......

Thanks for all the replies, although still waiting for that magic bullet idea to solve the problem..... maybe George Osborne will help me out

the benefits culture is about to be overturned - this is gonna change over the coming years - Frank Field and IDS are on the case...

[cells]

Write to your MP, encouraging them to penalise Buy-to-let via taxation.

Up to their eyeballs in it themselves.

The new energy and claim it change minister has 2 houses for himself and 5 BTLs

Would be fantastic to know out of the 600 or so MPs how many of them rent, how many have one house, two houses, three houses….etc.

My guess is between them they will number 2000 homes.

[cybernoid]

Due to changing circumstances, I might be taking up a full time job on a salary of £20,000 pa, which is about £1300 per month take-home pay.

Rental prices seem to start at £500 pcm for a studio / 1 bed. With bills, I reckon this would come to about £650 per month, just to put a roof over my head - half my take home pay.

Why are you going to take the job?

As someone else pointed out the difference between that income and benefits is negligable, it's simply not worth doing. Id take the details of this in and see the people hiring you, tell them how much they need to pay you to make the job worth taking. They up the salary to that level or you aren't taking it. Don't work for nothing.

[winkie]

Why are you going to take the job?

As someone else pointed out the difference between that income and benefits is negligable, it's simply not worth doing. Id take the details of this in and see the people hiring you, tell them how much they need to pay you to make the job worth taking. They up the salary to that level or you aren't taking it. Don't work for nothing.

They are not working for nothing...many work full time for that and less....time to bring the rents down...there is no more money left in the pot to pay higher wages.

[tim123]

Shouldn't I expect to be able to afford a 2 bedroom flat?

Has it always been this expensive in the UK, or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it the same in other European countries?

Rents in the UK have always been at these levels (relative to earnings).

In many EU countries they are much cheaper

tim

[okaycuckoo]

£500 rent is just the start. I'm finding that power + council tax + water rates is now coming in at about two thirds of rent, so with a rent of £500 which is not far off what I'm on, you're looking at £833 just to keep a warm roof over your head for a month. Second rule of thumb: your take home pay is two thirds the gross, so before tax you have to earn £833 x 1.5 = £1250 to cover this. Fifteen grand gross per annum gone before you you start looking at luxuries like food and transport. What you're supposed to save for a deposit with I do not know. I'm struggling on a decent wage, and I'm completely baffled how most people are managing at all, I really don't understand it.

Here's your answer. £15k per annum is pocket change to the shareholders in Gordo & Co Ltd (from your pocket - hehe!):

http://ourdailydebt.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/the-government-does-the-thinking-for-you/

[Darkman]

Welcome to the priced out generation, if you figure out an escape route from slavery expensive, alternativeless renting then do let us know.

After many years pondering the issue, I think there are only two viable alternatives. The first is become a "traveller", and the second is drain anything you can get from social security. Forget boats, using commercial premises, mobile homes and any other schemes. They won't work out.

Apart from these two options, the only other rare avenues I can think of are seeking a job that supplies accomodation i.e. school caretaker, carer, holiday rep etc. And that's about it.

So bearing this in mind, if I didn't have a decent job already I'd definately plan to leave the UK. Just get the hell out and be thankful you can travel and work freely within Europe.

[Game_Over]

Due to changing circumstances, I might be taking up a full time job on a salary of £20,000 pa, which is about £1300 per month take-home pay.

Rental prices seem to start at £500 pcm for a studio / 1 bed. With bills, I reckon this would come to about £650 per month, just to put a roof over my head - half my take home pay.

This seems scarily high to me - leaves me just £650 a month to pay for everything....... Am I missing something? How do people make this work?

Ok, I could share a house, but at late thirties, this isn't very appealing and certainly not long-term. Or I could get partnered-up - but that's not always so easy! Or I could get a better paid job - ok, I could, but this isn't an option for everyone and £20k isn't so far below the UK average.

So my questions are -

Shouldn't it be possible to have a reasonable standard of living on a full time salary of £20k? (The IFS put this almost exactly in the middle of UK household income distribution.)

Shouldn't I expect to be able to afford a 2 bedroom flat?

Has it always been this expensive in the UK, or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it the same in other European countries?

Or should I just accept my lot, shut up and run up some huge credit card bills like everyone else?

When Thatcher was in power an ordinary person earning an average salary could afford a decent home.

Thatchers children are now all sitting in houses worth 100's of K many having paid off their mortgages years ago

I should know cos I am one of them.

As usual a Labour government has F*cked everything up for the working classes.

Thank God my kids will be coming out of Uni with the Conservatives in power again.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

Due to changing circumstances, I might be taking up a full time job on a salary of £20,000 pa, which is about £1300 per month take-home pay.

Rental prices seem to start at £500 pcm for a studio / 1 bed. With bills, I reckon this would come to about £650 per month, just to put a roof over my head - half my take home pay.

This seems scarily high to me - leaves me just £650 a month to pay for everything....... Am I missing something? How do people make this work?

Ok, I could share a house, but at late thirties, this isn't very appealing and certainly not long-term. Or I could get partnered-up - but that's not always so easy! Or I could get a better paid job - ok, I could, but this isn't an option for everyone and £20k isn't so far below the UK average.

So my questions are -

Shouldn't it be possible to have a reasonable standard of living on a full time salary of £20k? (The IFS put this almost exactly in the middle of UK household income distribution.)

Shouldn't I expect to be able to afford a 2 bedroom flat?

Has it always been this expensive in the UK, or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it the same in other European countries?

Or should I just accept my lot, shut up and run up some huge credit card bills like everyone else?

You could look into moving to a developing nation. If you have English and some good skills you should be able to move somewhere where they have a sane house price/wage ratio, and raise your family there instead. Previous paradigms like our old world class designation system (first world, third world, etc.) are no longer helpful. Many of these nations, particularly in SE Asia and South America are fast approaching a state where they are superior to the "first world" plus they have the added bonus of not requiring a man to turn himself into a slave for the rest of his life for 40 square metres of dirt.

In the not too distant future, human traffic will be moving from the "first world" into the "third world" en masse for the single reason of unafforable house prices. It's already started in a small way with Brits buying up properties in the former Soviet republics, and an increasing number buying in places like Thailand and Malaysia.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Tecumseh

[Xurbia]

Due to changing circumstances, I might be taking up a full time job on a salary of £20,000 pa, which is about £1300 per month take-home pay.

Rental prices seem to start at £500 pcm for a studio / 1 bed. With bills, I reckon this would come to about £650 per month, just to put a roof over my head - half my take home pay.

This seems scarily high to me - leaves me just £650 a month to pay for everything....... Am I missing something? How do people make this work?

Ok, I could share a house, but at late thirties, this isn't very appealing and certainly not long-term. Or I could get partnered-up - but that's not always so easy! Or I could get a better paid job - ok, I could, but this isn't an option for everyone and £20k isn't so far below the UK average.

Or should I just accept my lot, shut up and run up some huge credit card bills like everyone else?

Unfortunately £20K isn't very much, especially if you're single. If you want to cut costs then sharing a group house is your best plan. You mention that you could get 'partnered-up' to reduce your outgoings; tell me you're joking?! Why would you want to deliberately run up credit-card bills when you can live within your means. You can live on a budget now whilst formulating a plan to earn more money. If you are desperate take on another job.

The last 15 years have been a poor example to all. You can thank Labour for your pay reduction. The unfettered immigration has kept wages artificially low.

If you think life is hard now I suggest you read 'The road to Wigan pier' by George Orwell.

[Xurbia]

You could look into moving to a developing nation. If you have English and some good skills you should be able to move somewhere where they have a sane house price/wage ratio, and raise your family there instead.

What a bizarre thing to suggest. It's quite mad.

Actually it's a great idea. Why not acclimatise and visit any British library? You'll find every other person in there is from the third world and cannot speak English.