Heavyweights On Paxman Now

[juvenal]

Harry Carpenter - come back!

[Concrete Jungle]

It didn't take baron Mandelslime long to drop in "lock in the recoverey."

[dances with sheeple]

It didn't take baron Mandelslime long to drop in "lock in the recoverey."

Thing is, I don`t think the sheeple are buying this cack any more? they know things are getting worse.

[juvenal]

A couple of old tarts battling it out after closing time.

[IBlewItLastTime]

Oh this industrial strategy is such crap.

Lib Dems think we can rebuild manufacturing to takes us out of recession. Such bx. Would take decades and its not possible or desirable.

This argument has been raging since the 1980's and is just pub BS.

Investment in science by this government? WTF?

Industrial policy is about keeping red tape to the minimum and letting people get on with it.

[billybong]

They're on about backing science and engineering in the usual 4/5 year pre general election words are cheap support of those things - before they revert to norm and give away £billions to themselves, the banks and the property developers etc

[scepticus]

in reality, ken got done over here by mandy and thuso.

ken accuses mandelson of picking winners and then retreats when pointed out that foreign governments are doing this and ken admits we have to do it too to prevent losing jobs and industry abroad.

thuso backs up mandelson on this, saying the right thing about building on engineering and scientific talent, which the UK has in spades.

then ken can't point out any specific examples of labour industrial investments he would retract, and then has to admit he'd cut back all these investments if the tories win.

it looked bad for ken.

as an aside, did you know bristol is the largest semiconductor design hub in europe? why? because of an 'industrial investment' made by labour back in the 70s/80s. The initiative failed as a business but got bought by a major european chip company and the seed of designers created back then led to the current burgeoning high tech WEALTH CREATING industry which has now spread all along the M4 and all the way up to cambridge.

[LJAR]

In the long run, the only thing a government can do to encourage business is get out of the way and let it operate.

[Injin]

in reality, ken got done over here by mandy and thuso.

ken accuses mandelson of picking winners and then retreats when pointed out that foreign governments are doing this and ken admits we have to do it too to prevent losing jobs and industry abroad.

thuso backs up mandelson on this, saying the right thing about building on engineering and scientific talent, which the UK has in spades.

then ken can't point out any specific examples of labour industrial investments he would retract, and then has to admit he'd cut back all these investments if the tories win.

it looked bad for ken.

as an aside, did you know bristol is the largest semiconductor design hub in europe? why? because of an 'industrial investment' made by labour back in the 70s/80s. The initiative failed as a business but got bought by a major european chip company and the seed of designers created back then led to the current burgeoning high tech WEALTH CREATING industry which has now spread all along the M4 and all the way up to cambridge.

Hmmmm roastbeef.

['Bart']

About as meaningful or as substantial as a WWF wrestling bout.

Shouldn't MPs be automatically issued with Equity cards?

[Guillotine]

Was hardly inspiring if that is the sort of debate we can expect from our best bods after 18 months of chaos,

Anyway, what's all this about the government buying a big metal thing for sheffield. The lucky buggers.

[Guest Steve Cook]

in reality, ken got done over here by mandy and thuso.

ken accuses mandelson of picking winners and then retreats when pointed out that foreign governments are doing this and ken admits we have to do it too to prevent losing jobs and industry abroad.

thuso backs up mandelson on this, saying the right thing about building on engineering and scientific talent, which the UK has in spades.

then ken can't point out any specific examples of labour industrial investments he would retract, and then has to admit he'd cut back all these investments if the tories win.

it looked bad for ken.

as an aside, did you know bristol is the largest semiconductor design hub in europe? why? because of an 'industrial investment' made by labour back in the 70s/80s. The initiative failed as a business but got bought by a major european chip company and the seed of designers created back then led to the current burgeoning high tech WEALTH CREATING industry which has now spread all along the M4 and all the way up to cambridge.

Interesting perspective.

My impression of who came out on top in the debate is diametrically opposite to your own. Not that that implies anything profound, since the debate never left the shallows anyway.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Steve Cook

[South Lorne]

Interesting perspective.

My impression of who came out on top in the debate is diametrically opposite to your own. Not that that implies anything profound, since the debate never left the shallows anyway.

...was it not the case that Nulabour through Mandelson have only just 'released' 'made available' these funds to various industries as part of the run in to the election and when pressed by Mandelson on which ones he would pull or save Ken Clarke stated he couldn't possibly say and would have to look at the business case for each one....which was the correct answer to Mandy's trap....in other words 'I want to see the books' before deciding ...

[porca misèria]

in reality, ken got done over here by mandy and thuso.

Who or what is thuso?

as an aside, did you know bristol is the largest semiconductor design hub in europe?

No. I know it's got some related hi-tech industries such as HP, but I consider your claim improbable.

why? because of an 'industrial investment' made by labour back in the 70s/80s.

Would that be Inmos you're thinking of?

Contemporary with Inmos was Acorn (in Cambridge), from which ARM was a spinoff (also a lot of also-rans). Given how big and successful ARM now is (AIUI ARM leads Intel in numbers of microprocessors produced), I'd expect Cambridge to be our leading centre.

Then there's 'silicon glen', and companies like Wolfson doing semiconductor dev work in Scotland.

The initiative failed as a business but got bought by a major european chip company and the seed of designers created back then led to the current burgeoning high tech WEALTH CREATING industry which has now spread all along the M4 and all the way up to cambridge.

Er, can you elaborate on this account of the M4 corridor?

[aa3]

A big one is to look at industries Britain can compete and win on... Stem cells, pharma, nanomedicine, banking which is a big category, software.

We are never going to compete against Germany and East Asia on most manufacturing so my feeling is why bother trying? They would have trouble against us in our strengths.

Then our national state should fund a great deal of research for our companies. Like how the US military funds a lot of breakout technology companies. Public private partnerships, hubs with infrastructure, big funding of university research, all flowing together.

[LJAR]

Then our national state should fund a great deal of research for our companies. Like how the US military funds a lot of breakout technology companies. Public private partnerships, hubs with infrastructure, big funding of university research, all flowing together.

I admit this makes a certain sort of sense, but remember that the government can't "fund" anything.

It can make you pay for it, or allow you to spend your money on what you like.

The paradox is this: If a business is going to be profitable, why does it need "government" funding instead of private funing?

If it isn't going to be profitable, why in the name of Satan's balls are we paying for it?

[DementedTuna]

There's more to life than money, and personally I'd be happier to increase our space budget about 5x to bring it up to the level of France and Germany's spend.

There are very few activities we do on this planet that are not entirely pointless, most of them have their own counterparts within ant colonies or bee hives.

We work, eat, we mate, we live, we die, repeat. Yawn. Progression to a point beyond that is the only thing that has ever mattered throughout human history.

Edited March 23, 2010 by DementedTuna

[Ben from Dover]

There's more to life than money, and personally I'd be happier to increase our space budget about 5x to bring it up to the level of France and Germany's spend.

There are very few activities we do on this planet that are not entirely pointless, most of them have their own counterparts within ant colonies or bee hives.

We work, eat, we mate, we live, we die, repeat. Yawn. Progression to a point beyond that is the only thing that has ever mattered throughout human history.

wow - that sounds depressing.

Have to disagree. Without going too soppy - Love (aka sex), Arts, sports, family, music, having real friends

spend a bit of time with a 3 year old and you'll realize what you are missing, this world is an amazing place.

Besides why waste UK money on space exploration. It is unlikely that we will make any real contribution of a significant size. Let the Americans (with possible help / rivalry from the Chinese / Russians and whoever else) do all the work. We will still pick up the benefits just the same.

[lets get it right]

I'd say Mandelson 'did' Clarke too.

I don't know what is wrong with the Tories. Where was the 'Look, growth under New Labour was funded by an explosion in consumer debt that was allowed to happen thanks to Gordon Brown's useless tri-partite system for regulating the banks. New Labour's answer to everything is debt and more debt. Your growth is based on borrowing and just like the 1970s the country has ended up in a financial crisis'.

And Clarke kept laughing as if he thought the whole crisis was a joke.

Funny thing is if New Labour had got rid of Brown, and stuck the postman in, I think they'd win this election easily. As it is, if Labour do lose, it will be because Brown is just a hard bloke to like - not because the Tories are any good.

[Game_Over]

in reality, ken got done over here by mandy and thuso.

ken accuses mandelson of picking winners and then retreats when pointed out that foreign governments are doing this and ken admits we have to do it too to prevent losing jobs and industry abroad.

thuso backs up mandelson on this, saying the right thing about building on engineering and scientific talent, which the UK has in spades.

then ken can't point out any specific examples of labour industrial investments he would retract, and then has to admit he'd cut back all these investments if the tories win.

it looked bad for ken.

as an aside, did you know bristol is the largest semiconductor design hub in europe? why? because of an 'industrial investment' made by labour back in the 70s/80s. The initiative failed as a business but got bought by a major european chip company and the seed of designers created back then led to the current burgeoning high tech WEALTH CREATING industry which has now spread all along the M4 and all the way up to cambridge.

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[Si1]

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+1

that was weird. M4/M11 corridor correctly attributed to Oxbridge Universities, motorways, proximity to London and airports.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Si1

[Si1]

I don't know what is wrong with the Tories. Where was the 'Look, growth under New Labour was funded by an explosion in consumer debt that was allowed to happen thanks to Gordon Brown's useless tri-partite system for regulating the banks. New Labour's answer to everything is debt and more debt. Your growth is based on borrowing and just like the 1970s the country has ended up in a financial crisis'.

people just don't want to hear this - sounds too boring old tory, they are not ready for this

and besides, Labour are doing a good job of losing the election all on their own. why detract from Gordon Brown's crises?

[Cogs]

people just don't want to hear this - sounds too boring old tory, they are not ready for this

and besides, Labour are doing a good job of losing the election all on their own. why detract from Gordon Brown's crises?

Because they voted for too much of it themselves and George Osborne agreed with Brown's spending plans. Although he has since retracted he agreed with Brown that Britain could keep increasing spending by 2.3% per year up until 2012. When the debt was at 45% Osborne took the view that government spending was relatively low. Which is why they can't really go any heavier on "fix the roof while the sun was shining" type arguments because Osborne was as keen as anyone else in the Labour cabinet to blow the money on patio furniture. It seems politics is inevitably the betrayal of the people to save your own hide whichever side you are on :angry:

Edited March 23, 2010 by Cogs

[scepticus]

PM, UKinvest claims the southwest is the largest european semis hub, with 1/3 of all british designers.

I know my stuff here, because I am one of them.

Yes I was talking about inmos. Inmos led to many large names being in or around bristol, including infineon, broadcom, ST microelectronics and panasonic. There are somewhere in the range of 15 or so sizable starups plus ome other larger companies and associated test an packaging companies.

Its bigger than cambridge. The M4 corridoor hosts wolfson, intel, synopsys, mentor graphics and cadence (thelatter three are all chip design software cos), all international ones.

There are too many others dotted around to mention.

The UK is the european leader in semiconductor design. I think we do more than germany does.

[scepticus]

link:

http://www.ukinvest.gov.uk/South-West-England/en-GB-list.html?languageCode=en&localisedNavTerm=South West England&prefferedTerm=Europe > Western Europe > United Kingdom > South West&countryCode=GB&regionCode=EUR

PM, UKinvest claims the southwest is the largest european semis hub, with 1/3 of all british designers.