Thinking Of Retraining At 36

[RentingForever]

Apparently Pharmacy is a good career to get into. 4 year degree and a year's pre-registration, then you start on £35k. No problems getting a job either and lots of variety (it's not all dispensing in Boots) - although the unis are doubling the number of grads coming out so there might be trouble ahead. I talked to a lecturer about it the other day and in most unis mature students make up a quarter of the intake.

Of course you've got to be able to support yourself and pay the fees for 4 years. I don't think you can do it part time.

It certainly would have given me a better career than my chemistry degree did

[Frank Hovis]

Anyway - end of day once its done, its a piece of paper either way and its a stepping stone - it doesn't dictate alone how well you will do - its good to have when you see all around you guys not passing - there must be about 15 fold at my work at different stages of the exams (ACCA & CIMA) and i only know of 4 who have finished them this last 6 years. Some are Finance Managers with no qualifications and some are CIMA qualified but GL Accountant.

Spot on Euan. It gets you in the door, then you're on your own.

I always wondered what kind of person wakes up one day and thinks ... "I want to be an accountant".

I knew the odd one but they were rare.

Most people I knew going into accountancy (audit) saw it as a great way to start a business career by gaining experience and knowledge at the same time. It was also three years of seeing what was around so deciding what your next move would be. Very few intended staying with their first firm.

[gasket37]

I always wondered what kind of person wakes up one day and thinks ... "I want to be an accountant".

yeah, tell me about it! me? i left school with lousy "A" levels & it was a chance to redeem myself, academically speaking. i was probably too immature for university at the age of 18!

also you forget that back in the 80's we had mass unemployment. nothing changes, huh? getting a start in life must be even harder now for school leavers. there are, what, a million unemployed between 18-24? for me, accountancy was about the only thing on offer that was vaguely "professional" (hack, spit).

I never quite appreciated how the most productive and useful members of society are also the most down-trodden.

yep, crackers isn't it? without binmen for example we'd be drowning in a sea of carp. i do feel really guilty at time, sat on my **** drinking cups of tea in a nice warm office moving pixels round a bloody screen but i'm probably fit for nothing else now. my old man used to work in the shoe trade (management) and when the workers retired they were usually shagged out after a hard life on the machines, poor sods. my brother is in print & really needs to get out because the solvents are not good for his health.

as fair as addressing the OP's question: hmmm - tricky one. plenty of sage advice already in this thread but i'd add is the OP prepared for the level of commitment required to study, often alone?

fair play to the people who take it on later in life but it sure is easier when you are young. without doubt you do peak mentally in your 20's and your cognitive abilities do decline.

i certainly have memories of working stupidly hard to pass the exams when i did them years ago (ACCA). i did an intensive course over just a year (level 2 was 9 papers and level 3 was 5(?) papers back in the day and they used to time bar people quite quickly) & it almost killed me! more of a test of character than anything else i'll concede.

pass rates seem better these days - i remember taking some exams early on when the pass rate was 25%! the drop out rates used to be horrendous. when i did level 1 on day release, there were about 30 in the class. by christmas we were down to 15 and by the time of the exams in the summer there were 7 or 8 of us.

why not combine your I.T. skills with accountancy and specialise in systems e.g. SAP, Agresso etc?

good luck anyway!

[Frank Hovis]

I am an IT guru - I can earn mega bucks if I travel but in Wales most IT jobs are in the Public Sector and are on an Admin Asst payscale so absolutely no way would I do such a damanding job for peanuts.

The problem is therfore I cannot work and make a living where I wish to live and where I can make a living I cannot live. When young it is not a problem but as you get older, think about relationships, being in your own bed each night and being in bed with your lover then it is an issue.

I wish I had known these things when young as it would have had a life-changing affect on what I studied in school, what I aimed to be.

That's all true. In many ways the job that ticks those boxes is doctor, but I ruled that out at an early stage basically because I found the whole idea of being a doctor very distasteful and still do. If you are happy dealing with ill and dying people day-in day-out go for it. I think I'd end up topping myself, same if I became a vet.

I'm mulling over a change myself. I no longer need to chase the money so want something different that I would actively enjoy. I don't wish to put the OP off accountancy, I have enjoyed a lot of it and like working in an office which is usually quite a laugh.

[Goat]

Apparently Pharmacy is a good career to get into. 4 year degree and a year's pre-registration, then you start on £35k. No problems getting a job either and lots of variety (it's not all dispensing in Boots) - although the unis are doubling the number of grads coming out so there might be trouble ahead. I talked to a lecturer about it the other day and in most unis mature students make up a quarter of the intake.

Of course you've got to be able to support yourself and pay the fees for 4 years. I don't think you can do it part time.

It certainly would have given me a better career than my chemistry degree did

I always thought that was a poorly paid sector - maybe things have changed.

[The Masked Tulip]

That's all true. In many ways the job that ticks those boxes is doctor, but I ruled that out at an early stage basically because I found the whole idea of being a doctor very distasteful and still do. If you are happy dealing with ill and dying people day-in day-out go for it. I think I'd end up topping myself, same if I became a vet.

I'm mulling over a change myself. I no longer need to chase the money so want something different that I would actively enjoy. I don't wish to put the OP off accountancy, I have enjoyed a lot of it and like working in an office which is usually quite a laugh.

Yes, some people I know who are Doctors are deliriously happy, others are suicidal. The depression and sucide rates of Doctors is higher than most people think and I believe Dentists top the list of professionals who are depressed and/or who commit suicide.

[Frank Hovis]

Yes, some people I know who are Doctors are deliriously happy, others are suicidal. The depression and sucide rates of Doctors is higher than most people think and I believe Dentists top the list of professionals who are depressed and/or who commit suicide.

So what can you do outside of the big cities that is intellectually stimulating and lets you stay in the place you choose?

I'm actively looking, can't see anything yet. I'm quite happy with several years retraining as I like study and exams but, as has been pointed out, no point loading yourself with qualifications without experience.

Engineering looks attractive but I have known several accountants who retrained after a career in engineering and said they much preferred accountancy. The search continues...

[euan2020]

I always wondered what kind of person wakes up one day and thinks ... "I want to be an accountant".

guess depends what your perception of an accountant is ?

business partner or bean counter

there's a whack of Chartered Accountants who are CEO's of major footsie companies.

Me - there's also element that it has given me opportunity to travel to Russia, Kazakhstan, Italy, Spain, France, USA, Nigeria, Tunisia, Libya, & heading out to Cape Town, South Africa & Angola this week.

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Thanks. Yep, that's plenty to be going on with!

I was having a bit of a crisis this morning - when you are in my line of work and you look on Google to find yourself on page 4 and your advertising revenue is down to £40 per day despite working until gone midnight every day, it happens!

Anyway, I had a look at my earnings over the year and they were actually pretty healthy. Still I always have the creeping fear that it ain't gonna last.

I'm probably going to have a look into the accountancy route for a reason that was mentioned before. Having worked for myself and being reasonably entrepreneurial I'd love to know how, why, who makes money. All the accountants I know of seem to have a few plates spinning and that appeals to me.

Right back to work. I have a website that seems to have turned into one big PHP error

[The Masked Tulip]

Thanks. Yep, that's plenty to be going on with!

I was having a bit of a crisis this morning - when you are in my line of work and you look on Google to find yourself on page 4 and your advertising revenue is down to £40 per day despite working until gone midnight every day, it happens!

Anyway, I had a look at my earnings over the year and they were actually pretty healthy. Still I always have the creeping fear that it ain't gonna last.

I'm probably going to have a look into the accountancy route for a reason that was mentioned before. Having worked for myself and being reasonably entrepreneurial I'd love to know how, why, who makes money. All the accountants I know of seem to have a few plates spinning and that appeals to me.

Right back to work. I have a website that seems to have turned into one big PHP error

I didn't catch what you currently do - web designer?

[Jesusaves]

Hi,

I have had many 'careers' and was often told that I don't stick at anything. I am now 51 and own a small holding in West Dorset in an area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. There is a lot of money in the West Country, but the trick is to find a way of tapping into it. (The elderly retired don't like to spend). So, I set up my own business and it worked. You don't need to become an accountant. I now work part-time. It's easy. I started with a 5K bank loan.

[ken_ichikawa]

I think changing careers is a very healthy thing to do... unless you are a GP and earning zillions per week

However, I have my doubts about becoming an accountant. From what I hear there are armies of unemployed accountants out there.

If I had my time again I would have gone hell for leather to become a GP or Dentist as it would have allowed me to work pretty much where I wanted. If I had time to retrain I probably would consider something like an Osteopath.

There are armies of unemployed accountants out there, me being one of them , but I wanted time off to do my big trip anyway , but personally of 5 firms I know people in ALL of them have let at least 4-10 people go and didn't intend to replace them , ontop of that mates who work in various companies say the HR depts get 1000s of applications for the most basic of accounts jobs (like clerk) from massively overqualified people. Just check out reed and applications for the jobs a year ago it was 1-300 applications per job its now about 4-700 apps per job.

[ccc]

Hi,

I have had many 'careers' and was often told that I don't stick at anything. I am now 51 and own a small holding in West Dorset in an area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. There is a lot of money in the West Country, but the trick is to find a way of tapping into it. (The elderly retired don't like to spend). So, I set up my own business and it worked. You don't need to become an accountant. I now work part-time. It's easy. I started with a 5K bank loan.

Evening Hugh.

[The Masked Tulip]

Hi,

I have had many 'careers' and was often told that I don't stick at anything. I am now 51 and own a small holding in West Dorset in an area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. There is a lot of money in the West Country, but the trick is to find a way of tapping into it. (The elderly retired don't like to spend). So, I set up my own business and it worked. You don't need to become an accountant. I now work part-time. It's easy. I started with a 5K bank loan.

I think you have done the right thing... it is pretty much the same in Swansea... plenty of white van men do far better than many white collar people realise... like you, they find a way to tap into the wealth in the area... and many often have 2 or 3 sidelines so are not dependent on one thing...

I was in Tenby last weekend and many of the B&B owners also own cafes or tourist shops in the town... again, not dependent on one line and able to maximise the tourist business in the Summer...

I think, just as in West Wales, in somewhere like Cornwall you have to either find a way of bring South East England wealth home by outsourcing work from London based corporates... or you do what I just said above...

My only caveat on that is what will happen come all the Public Sector job cuts after the next election - I suspect Cornwall is like West Wales and most jobs are Public Sector... so when they go there goes your potential client base...

Then again, at least you are better prepared for the coming storm - many 9 to 5 workers will simply have no idea how to work for themselves or what to do.

[sleepwello'nights]

Or better still, buy some houses or flats and rent them out.

[Girly girl]

I've considered the same, I always wanted to be a Dentist in my youth and have found a course that will take me with my rubbish A'Level chemistry providing I can complete a course and gain voluntary work experience.

Well I'm not sure what planet the Uni is on because for insurance purposes everyone in the surgery must be registered with the General Dental Council, CRB checked and qualified as a min as a dental nurse. To get the minimum qualification would take as long as to qualify as a bloody dentist, it amazes me that those providing a genuinely useful public service earn £12,000 a year after qualification where as an Estate agent would start on £15,000 at least.

[Prescience]

There are far too many accountants already.

You already have advanced IT and web skills.

The role of the Accountant is changing because of IT. Most mundane routinous tasks will be System-Driven in the very near future.

It is only vested interests that for example (and laziness and refusal to learn!) that makes most accountants cling on to such crap as Sage products!

Most accountants lack developed business expertise and focus on forecasting what will happen last week!

The future is web apps and remote hosting of all processing and storage functions.

As Expert Systems and Neural Networks increase , smart Knowledge-Based Systems will render most manual thinking-based professional activities redundant.

Example: most lawyers use Will Writing and Contract, Trust, Deed and etc software systems which have embedded all common precident clauses: so instead of spending hours poring over dusty law books and precident, the main body of the work is completed in minutes: not hours.

This is the way of the future.

Already, Payroll is mainly remotely processed via the web very effectively: increasingly, Government are driving all aspects of reporting and payment to web based functionality.

Cornwall has economic problems. And little real industrial base. However using the web, you can work anywhere.

I personally suggest you bone up on provision of full-function accountancy services delivered via web and make a fortune!

Low-end grunt stuff is already outsourced to (e.g.) India: this trend will accelerate.

The audit which is archaic only still exists in the UK due to VI from the major firms who drive CCAB and thus FRC and ASB/APB.

The most desirable international qual is now the US CPA.

If you can, find a copy of the ICAEW's Small Practitoner's Committee's, "2005 -The Way Ahead", then chaired by Mark Spofforth, now a full ICAEW Council Member and a very bright forward thinking man.

Unlike the majority of the ICAEW's Council Members!

Plan forward: not back!

[guitarman001]

Very healthy to consider other options. I've been in electronics design 2 years and I'm either going to -

- go into engineering applications

- join the RAF (as an officer or re-train as a dentist - pipe-dream?)

- join the police (form handed in two days ago!)

I wouldn't fancy accountancy, I reckon you wouldn't have much of a life and hear it can be tough to rise up the ranks.

[whatgoesaround]

I know plenty of people who have changed careers.

This time ten years ago I was in a council house following a separation without a qualification to my name. I started small but achieved enough to get to uni. I never doubted myself for a minute. I've got a degree in Social Psychology, I'm a qualified pareting practitioner, professional qualifications in youth justice. I have just completed a course in preparing to teach in lifelong learning and I want to teach art to adults so am on the certificate to teach this year and will be doing a diploma in art. I set myself a goal and nothing was going to stop me. I am now in a job that I love but have bigger goals for my future.

If you want something enough then it shouldn't be a struggle, obstacles will fade away and the universe will move things to attract them to you. Feel good about yourself and what you want to achieve. I am sending good vibes.

Whatever the mind can concieve... it can achieve. The Secret

Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions. Einstein

Nothing can prevent your picture from coming into concrete form except the same power which gave it birth-yourself. Genevieve Befriend.

The overall message is that thoughts become things. Think abundance in everything from relationships, money, health, anything you want

[sleepwello'nights]

There are far too many accountants already.

The role of the Accountant is changing because of IT. Most mundane routinous tasks will be System-Driven in the very near future.

Most accountants lack developed business expertise and focus on forecasting what will happen last week!

The future is web apps and remote hosting of all processing and storage functions.

As Expert Systems and Neural Networks increase , smart Knowledge-Based Systems will render most manual thinking-based professional activities redundant.

Payroll is mainly remotely processed via the web very effectively: increasingly, Government are driving all aspects of reporting and payment to web based functionality.

I personally suggest you bone up on provision of full-function accountancy services delivered via web and make a fortune!

If you can, find a copy of the ICAEW's Small Practitoner's Committee's, "2005 -The Way Ahead", then chaired by Mark Spofforth, now a full ICAEW Council Member and a very bright forward thinking man.

Can you send a link to the ICAEW publication you mention.

I agree with you as far as the grunt work goes, but the SME's that I prepare accounts and tax returns for need hand holding and guiding through the maze of ever increasing legislation. That's what they're paying for. They aren't paying for accounts and tax return preparation, although it has to be done for them in the main.

This work can't be carried out by outsourced departments in India. I dread having to speak to Indian call centres even for absolutely bog standard customer service queries or banking transactions. They just can't cut it, I doubt they ever will. Put yourself in the place of a person without accounts or legal training wanting to decide how he can reduce his tax bill, get advice on how to approach his bank for a loan or prepare a business plan.

There is a strong need and demand for accountants, it's a career that has served me well.

[Prescience]

Can you send a link to the ICAEW publication you mention.

I agree with you as far as the grunt work goes, but the SME's that I prepare accounts and tax returns for need hand holding and guiding through the maze of ever increasing legislation. That's what they're paying for. They aren't paying for accounts and tax return preparation, although it has to be done for them in the main.

This work can't be carried out by outsourced departments in India. I dread having to speak to Indian call centres even for absolutely bog standard customer service queries or banking transactions. They just can't cut it, I doubt they ever will. Put yourself in the place of a person without accounts or legal training wanting to decide how he can reduce his tax bill, get advice on how to approach his bank for a loan or prepare a business plan.

There is a strong need and demand for accountants, it's a career that has served me well.

I can only suggest a thorough search of the ICAEW site: I have the hard copy somewhere in the archive.

I agree with much you say: with the exception that I have rarely met an accountant per se, who could prepare a decent Business Plan.

Having spent most of my professional life as a consultant, my own practice now has focused on SME clients for perhaps 15 years.

Unfortunately, there is now much competition from such as Business Link et al.

Even with consultancy (bearing in mind the top ten firms feed off the lion's share) Government and the then DTI promoted the Enterprise Initiative and part funded costs: and the big ten then simply seconded fresh grads with a shiny new MBA (Who have zero experience of business in the real world!), and screwed up the bottom end of the market!

Additionally, increasing numbers of areas where an adviser can "Hand Hold" are becoming system-centric: e.g.s Company Secretarial, HR, Employment Law, COSHH,, Health and Safety and so on.

And as the actual market decreases, then more and more accountants will be fighting over a diminishing number of fee opportunities.

And perhaps worse, there are many other people who can adequately address most of these areas; tax can be the province of CIT members for example.

Accountants need urgently to consider their Product Offering and their USP.

[sleepwello'nights]

I can only suggest a thorough search of the ICAEW site: I have the hard copy somewhere in the archive.

Accountants need urgently to consider their Product Offering and their USP.

Don't be too despondent. With your own practice you must have a reasonable income.

I'm still sort of half heartedly building mine. My reluctance is due to the fact that I spent most of my career in commerce and industry. There accounts are used to give information to manage and control the business. It was quite a culture shock moving into practice when I quickly realised my clients only wanted to know how much tax they had to pay. Most are small businesses, they know in their heads how their business is doing; how big the order pipeline is, whether to pitch competitively for the next order, how much is in the bank, what the cash flow is like. To me tax is a by product, the real reason to prepare accounts is to see how the business is performing. The numbers tell the story like it is.

Having said that most clients are now friends, I trust them, I think they trust me, so there's more than just a client professional relationship. I like it, satisfying and gratifying.

And a practice is sale-able. So you have something to cash in when you want to leave.

BTW I've searched the ICAEW site, but can't find the publication. I'm not ACA so that might be the reason I can't get to it.

[Prescience]

Don't be too despondent. With your own practice you must have a reasonable income.

Oh I am not!

I am deeply involved in IT and have been for many years: and we are presently developing a range of leading-edge products which will provide many of these facilities to SME companies.

And in any case, most of my professional life was spent in consultancy and particularly, corporate and sovereign risk finance.

For the fleet of foot, the current and forward opportunities in accountancy are exciting, challenging and potentially far more lucractive than before.

That said the actually number of accountants in practise will diminish: particularly those who believe Sage is the be-all and end-all and have no knowledge of Enterprise Accounting etc.

Hence my advice to the OP.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

Okay, maybe a bit unfair on CIMA but it is a big company qualification so less appropriate for Cornwall. Most people in Cornwall do ACCA because of a lack of big companies and accountancy practices where they would do ACA.

Also, on a very practical level, AFAIK ACCA is the only senior qualification actually taught in Cornwall. I know people in Plymouth who have to go up to Bristol for ACA.

I am ACA btw in case you think I have a bias towards ACCA, I don't.

makes a change from most who pretend that theirs is the hardest qualification like some posters

speaking to lecturers who teach all three of the main - pretty similar difficulty although ICAEW pass rates used to be far higher when i was studying - probably down to the study support given re training contracts

and to the OP - no its not too late but do something you enjoy and self employed if possible, dont chase the money