Why Dual Income Amounts To Slavery

[Imminent_plunge]

My OH came home at the weekend very worried about his job, thinks he will be made redundant by October.

I suggested that he could, for the short-term, be a househusband. It would give him some breathing space and some time to get some of his amazing business ideas off the ground.

At the moment I'm working 50+ hours a week and earning more than I could possibly spend every month, so I'm quite happy for him to do this - I would literally weep with gratitude to come home to a clean house and hot dinner.

Likewise, my situation could change and he could be the breadwinner 12 months.

The point is that we can manage on one income and not forced to do something we hate, that's undervalued etc. etc. If we needed two incomes just to pay the bills, we would literally be debt slaves.

[SarahBell]

Imagine what it'd be like if rates actually went up...

[grizzly bear]

And add a couple of children into the mix....

[Imminent_plunge]

Imagine what it'd be like if rates actually went up...

Do you mean interest rates? Am renting with a STR fund in the bank earning bugger all, I'd love it if rates went up.

[scottbeard]

The point is that we can manage on one income and not forced to do something we hate, that's undervalued etc. etc. If we needed two incomes just to pay the bills, we would literally be debt slaves.

Only if you had any debt, and didn't default it.

I think we will see a lot of defaulting/repossessing over the next 2 years.

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

My OH came home at the weekend very worried about his job, thinks he will be made redundant by October.

I suggested that he could, for the short-term, be a househusband. It would give him some breathing space and some time to get some of his amazing business ideas off the ground.

At the moment I'm working 50+ hours a week and earning more than I could possibly spend every month, so I'm quite happy for him to do this - I would literally weep with gratitude to come home to a clean house and hot dinner.

Likewise, my situation could change and he could be the breadwinner 12 months.

The point is that we can manage on one income and not forced to do something we hate, that's undervalued etc. etc. If we needed two incomes just to pay the bills, we would literally be debt slaves.

Why wouldn't you allow him to become a househusband long-term?

[Imminent_plunge]

And add a couple of children into the mix....

That's the point though. You should be able to survive on a single income, spending time with your children without having to both slave just to pay the bills.

BTW, I do have a child.

[SarahBell]

Do you mean interest rates? Am renting with a STR fund in the bank earning bugger all, I'd love it if rates went up.

abbeysantander 6% at the moment advertised on tv. might only be for £3 a month or someother such con.

me too would love rates to go up.

[markyh]

I suggested that he could, for the short-term, be a househusband. It would give him some breathing space and some time to get some of his amazing business ideas off the ground.

I would literally weep with gratitude to come home to a clean house and hot dinner.

And here is the fatal flaw in your plan, on your income alone could you afford to pay all your living costs and the wages of a cook and a cleaner while your hubby researched his business plans, (translates to watching sky sports and internet porn daily)

M

[Aidan Ap Word]

So if rates went up I would be very happy too ... our deposit (garnered by hard savings - especially my OH's) would start growing again ... well, keeping with inflation anyway.

I think the point is: double income-based mortgages (and/or liar loans) can be little more than slavery for exactly the reason the OP presents. No way to do anything except continue to work one's self into the ground.

When the rates go floating about in the (relative) stratosphere, that slavery turns into something akin to a concentration camp. No way out, no option but to keep working like a loon, and no life in any of the short, medium OR long term(s). And, in the case were folks are forced to go interest only: no end in sight.

Except, of course, the IVA "screw everybody else because I over-stretched" route (taken at the behest of the local EA/VI????) ...

*sigh* ... so many slaves ...

Aidanapword

[DementedTuna]

All I can say is thanks for being a realistic lady who wouldn't look down on her partner for being unemployed.

Just as women are now widely accepted in the workplace, it's important that men are accepted in the home, without being sneered on for not being the big manly man rawwwr dragging home the mammoth carcass each day, so to speak.

[leveller]

My OH came home at the weekend very worried about his job, thinks he will be made redundant by October.

I suggested that he could, for the short-term, be a househusband. It would give him some breathing space and some time to get some of his amazing business ideas off the ground.

At the moment I'm working 50+ hours a week and earning more than I could possibly spend every month, so I'm quite happy for him to do this - I would literally weep with gratitude to come home to a clean house and hot dinner.

Likewise, my situation could change and he could be the breadwinner 12 months.

The point is that we can manage on one income and not forced to do something we hate, that's undervalued etc. etc. If we needed two incomes just to pay the bills, we would literally be debt slaves.

Have you got any single sisters?

How lucky is Mr IP !

[tinker]

Dual income households, the blessing that offered freedom to women to improve their lot, has merely been swallowed up in the pursuit of overpriced houses (nesting instinct) and therefore debt.

Women have been conned, been given money with one hand had it taken away with the other.

Nice to see in the OP a view that we are in this together and that the whole is greater than the individual part. If there wasn't so much pressure to 'have', we would he happy with what we had.

Edited August 2, 2009 by tinker

[Imminent_plunge]

Why wouldn't you allow him to become a househusband long-term?

Because the same could happen to me. I could struggle for work in the future but if we can both support one another during the bad times, that's a relationship.

[grizzly bear]

That's the point though. You should be able to survive on a single income, spending time with your children without having to both slave just to pay the bills.

BTW, I do have a child.

I totally agree with you. I work three days a week - that works for me as I enjoy my job but I still have time with my kids, but its not a good thing that so many woman now HAVE to work rather than looking after their kids. Also I am very happy with my childcare but I know people who have to rely on less ideal forms as its cheaper... I don't want to go into the ins or outs of whats best as its very personable, but its sad when people don't have that choice.

Another angle is that it put more pressure to earn more money rather than pursue career that will give job satisfaction.

[Imminent_plunge]

Dual income households , the blessing that offered freedom to women to improve their lot, has merely been swallowed up in the pursuit of overpriced houses (nesting instinct) and therefore debt.

N

Women have been conned, been given money with one hand had it taken away with the other.

Nice to see in the OP a view that we are in this together and that the whole is greater than the individual part. If there wasn't so much pressure to 'have', we would he happy with what we had.

So many of my friends, in their mid thirties and all with degrees are waking up to the big CON.

It's cheating them out of marriages and having children. Feminism was about not one person feeling superior to the other, no matter what they do but somehow women had to become men, earn an income then come home to do the 'second shift' of housework, ironing and cooking. Now we have overpriced houses, on the basis that two people earn.

Our children are forced on childminders and breakfast clubs because we have to go out there and earn. Nice. What's wrong with the idea of someone staying at home, cooking and looking after children being of equal value?

[tinker]

So many of my friends, in their mid thirties and all with degrees are waking up to the big CON.

It's cheating them out of marriages and having children. Feminism was about not one person feeling superior to the other, no matter what they do but somehow women had to become men, earn an income then come home to do the 'second shift' of housework, ironing and cooking. Now we have overpriced houses, on the basis that two people earn.

Our children are forced on childminders and breakfast clubs because we have to go out there and earn. Nice. What's wrong with the idea of someone staying at home, cooking and looking after children being of equal value?

It's tragic. It truly is, the hollowing out of society and community in the pursuit of greed and illusory GPD growth.

The whole business of women becoming 'more masculine' in the process is so sad. The other half of the sky and all that... but no, they would rather the sky fall in, if a few VIs could make a few quid at other's expense.

[Stars]

It's cheating them out of marriages and having children. Feminism was about not one person feeling superior to the other, no matter what they do but somehow women had to become men, earn an income then come home to do the 'second shift' of housework, ironing and cooking. Now we have overpriced houses, on the basis that two people earn.

Our system of land tenure and taxes will mean that the price of land will rise to absorb the value of all production (and more); women, by entering the workforce in large numbers, have increased production. It is the former, rather than the latter, that is the problem.

[Imminent_plunge]

[quote name='tinker' ehe hollowing out of society and community in the pursuit of greed and illusory GPD growth.

The whole business of women becoming 'more masculine' in the process is so sad. The other half of the sky and all that... but no, they would rather the sky fall in, if a few VIs could make a few quid at other's expense.

They've had no choice, been told that's what they have to do. I had a child at 22, considered freakishly young, though my doctor insisted that in medical terms it was the perfect age. So many women putting it off until their late 30s/early 40s. They then have to have tests to ascertain that their child doesn't have Down's.

It's natural for a woman to have a child in their 20s, but society has convinced them that they have to hold off for longer and longer, purely for financial reasons.

[iLegallyBlonde]

What actually happened in my experience is that you get to work 50 hours and do all the housework and then spend the weekends catching up on everything that should have happened in the week, ie reading, music practice with the children whilst he has a lie down from his busy week.

After 6 weeks with a househusband I wasn't sure whether to go for divorce or murder, packed him back off to work in the end.

[Imminent_plunge]

What actually happened in my experience is that you get to work 50 hours and do all the housework and then spend the weekends catching up on everything that shoderuld have happened in the week, ie reading, music practice with the children whilst he has a lie down from his busy week.

After 6 weeks with a househusband I wasn't sure whether to go for divorce or murder, packed him back off to work in the end.

Murder in that sense would be entirely reasonable. I just hope and pray that we have a relationship that means we can support one another when times are bad. I would be equally grateful if I was out of work or underemployed that he would be there for me too. That may sound to naive so please feel free to PM me with your experiences.

[R K]

They've had no choice, been told that's what they have to do. I had a child at 22, considered freakishly young, though my doctor insisted that in medical terms it was the perfect age. So many women putting it off until their late 30s/early 40s. They then have to have tests to ascertain that their child doesn't have Down's.

It's natural for a woman to have a child in their 20s, but society has convinced them that they have to hold off for longer and longer, purely for financial reasons.

Really? You think so?

Nothing to do with them wanting a 'career' and to spend 10 years going out on the lash with their girlfriends three times a week, blowing their disposable on cars, holidays, clothes, handbags, shoes, booze and weekend breaks surfing in Cornwall with their mates?

If they want to have kids at 22, 25 or 30 there's nothing to stop them. They will just have to make sacrifices to their 'lifestyle', perhaps go back to live at home for 5 years and save up.

There is a popular notion that women are making men redundant.

I can't help but think it's women who are making themselves redundant. They've demeaned their role. Harriet Hormone gave us an excellent example of that today. Quite honestly, men no longer give a f*ck what women want. We can for the most part live quite happily without.

[dude]

What actually happened in my experience is that you get to work 50 hours and do all the housework and then spend the weekends catching up on everything that should have happened in the week, ie reading, music practice with the children whilst he has a lie down from his busy week.

After 6 weeks with a househusband I wasn't sure whether to go for divorce or murder, packed him back off to work in the end.

Ah yes, my normal week.

It is remarkable that the average wage has not gone up too much over the last couple of decades, being around £25k or so. So the only reason we are now 'more wealthy' is because may people have access to two wages. Everyone wants a house, so once it's paid off they won't have any rent to pay, yet house prices have gone up to reflect the additional amount of money available to buy them.

What we really need is a system whereby housing should be presented much more of a right -- and officially provided accommodation offered at peppercorn-level rates. It was once called council housing, and for those who wanted it, meant it wasn't a big burden on their income. But we got rid of that, as that was provided by those nasty socialists who don't want you to have your own mind, and don't want you to be able to achieve so much you can build a wall with a steel gate around your property.

So we now live in that nice Utopia, as promoted by many on this site, where you have the chance to get on, do well for yourself, and then turn your back on all the other scum who haven't made it. What a lovely country the UK has become. We are trying to ape more and more the US.

Is it just me that looks across the pond and sees what a fooking disaster their society is?

Edited August 2, 2009 by dude

[athom]

I would literally weep with gratitude to come home to a clean house and hot dinner.

What a revelation you've just had!!! Now do you see another reason why 2 wages doesn't work. Why a woman who will cook proper food, i mean really cooking from ingredients like raw whole vegetables (i know very 19th century), is like gold. A woman who will keep a house nice and feed a man coming home from work is worth diamond jewellery? You must be about the only woman who would be willing to believe that just because she stays at home and "cooks and cleans" she is highly appreciated and respected by a working man. As essential to the functioning of the team as the man. Now please get out there and tell your women friends what you know, before it's too late.

[athom]

So many of my friends, in their mid thirties and all with degrees are waking up to the big CON.

It's cheating them out of marriages and having children. Feminism was about not one person feeling superior to the other, no matter what they do but somehow women had to become men, earn an income then come home to do the 'second shift' of housework, ironing and cooking. Now we have overpriced houses, on the basis that two people earn.

Our children are forced on childminders and breakfast clubs because we have to go out there and earn. Nice. What's wrong with the idea of someone staying at home, cooking and looking after children being of equal value?

Nearly right, but feminism was about women feeling inferior not men feeling superior. Very important distinction. In fact more precisely it was a few particularly strident women telling other women they were inferior. The problem was the inflexibility at the time, gender roles were too rigidly enforced by society. If those strident women had been given the freedom they wanted the whole movement wouldn't have gained momentum and the "war of the sexes" wouldn't have ruined our civilisation.

There is a popular notion that women are making men redundant.

I can't help but think it's women who are making themselves redundant. They've demeaned their role. Harriet Hormone gave us an excellent example of that today. Quite honestly, men no longer give a f*ck what women want. We can for the most part live quite happily without.

The last part is of course frustration born of the unwinnable situation.

And before anyone thinks to suggest men can stay at home and women can work please think hard about it. Men are rubbish around the home, it's universal, you can't change that. Women are needed at home by their husbands and children. Why is that job such a poor relation to some demeaning office work or dirty building work the husband does?