Main Rule Of Debt If You Borrow, Don't Worry.

[uk2bkk]

When I was a kid I learnt that if you borrow money from a financial institution, never worry if you

are unable to pay it back. Let the institution you borrowed from do all the worrying, after all it is their

money. They are charging a premium to lend you the cash. They employ all the experts to asses the risk.

If you can't pay it back, too bad for them. Let them have the sleepless nights while you make a fresh start.

They will always find another mug and charge him more to cover their costs. The borrower always had

the upper hand and power, not the lender. Especially if you borrowed huge amounts. This will change.

Now I also learnt not to borrow or lend to family/friends, so the above could always be applied

if required. I learnt that I should always try and do my best to repay my debts but if I am unable, too bad.

If I did default, I learnt I had to minimise the impact to myself and to do it from a good position.

Life goes on, big world out there. Imagine if more and more people said f%&K it, lets have a fresh start.

I try not to use credit, I have seen in the last twenty years the maturing of the personal credit report and it

has brainwashed people. People got obsessed with their credit score. I have known people work all hours

trying to repay their debt only drop dead. All people were interested in was their credit score.

This depression/recession is only one of many you will see, but one small difference, you had the opportunity to walk away from your debts this time round.

Over the years I have noticed how it is getting increasingly difficult to make a fresh start. The government and industry

will try desperately to make sure you do all the worrying, making sure you repay your debts. The only way

quantitative easing can be applied is when the population pays it's taxes and the only way to guarantee payment of taxes is enslavement to debt.

I think the main flaw/opportunity in this credit crunch, it was easy for people to walk away from their debt.

If that debt was attached to the person, like a sentence then the madness of lending would have continued. I think this is what will happen next. Governments around the world will legislate to make sure all debt must be repaid, making bankruptcy impossible.

They have done this to student loans in the UK.

Russians have their passports confiscated if they default.

They are trying to remove the passports/driving license of parents who do not contribute to child maintenance.

The list will only increase till enslavement is reached. Right now you could break free. If your in a good position

to default, If you tried your best but are sinking then let the institutions do all the worrying, f&*k em, f*%l em all.

[Dubai]

Can't think exactly what I want to say to this... (late at night!) but worth a bump!

[Danny Deflation]

When I was a kid I learnt that if you borrow money from a financial institution, never worry if you

are unable to pay it back. Let the institution you borrowed from do all the worrying [etc]

I think this is a good post.

I would add, however, that perhaps you should worry a tad if you owe tax or council tax, because this is one debt where you can be imprisoned. But other than that there is little that banks and debt collectors can currently do - other than issue empty threat after empty threat - until they get fed up of chasing you and either write off the debt or sell it to some other pester merchant. Yes, it would mess up your credit rating, but if you are in a situation where you feel like walking away from your debts then you don't really want any more credit - so who cares? Most would instantly find themselves with an increased income by not paying their secured loan payments or the minimum payments on their umpteen credit cards.

Anyone up the financial creek should concentrate on their "priority" debts: tax and council tax, in order to avoid the threat of prison. And then maybe their mortgage - to avoid losing their home. But as for unsecured loans, credit cards, overdrafts, store cards, etc, there is ulitimately very little they can do other than send silly letters and phone you 6 times a day.

The screw may be tightened. But at the moment they cannot take your passport so there is an argument in making the decision to walk now - instead of waiting until the banks get the upper hand.

[Kyoto]

Though I'm not condoning it, I don't understand why more of the heavily indebted don't just give up on their unsecured debts - by either walking away or taking bankruptcy at the earliest opportunity.

The consequences of either are pretty low, and though there must be some level of moral obligation, it seems to be mainly some sort of misguided fear of the system that keeps people in check.

Funny how the debt bubble has been built on such shaky foundations.

[Danny Deflation]

The consequences of either are pretty low, and though there must be some level of moral obligation, it seems to be mainly some sort of misguided fear of the system that keeps people in check.

There's no reason for any "moral obligation".

Banks accept taxpayers money to bail themselves out of the sh1t. They spend thousands on advertising campaigns. They spend thousands encouraging people to get into debt. Banks still pay out huge bonuses and pensions. They are still charging people 40 quid for going 20 pence overdrawn. Debt collection agencies use all manner of bullying and underhand tactics in an attempt to get money.

Moral obligation for people to repay their debts? Nah.

[j3-ox]

My misses got to the point where she was heavily stressed about her debts.

I told her not to worry, we will file her for bankruptcy.

Within 3 weeks she had no more phone calls, no more letters.

Just plain sailing.

Whilst we were at court, i spoke to a lady in the queue.

She had never had a job, and had lived completely off benefits all of her life.

She had managed to amass £20k of debt in 2 years as credit card companies kept upping her limits!!

Would you lend to someone if you knew they had no Job?

Bankruptcy will certainly teach the banks a lesson in responsibility over the next several years.

But it definitely shows that they really are as stupid as we think they are!

[quad]

Fasinating view on debt

[waiting_to_exile]

Yes, it would mess up your credit rating, but if you are in a situation where you feel like walking away from your debts then you don't really want any more credit - so who cares?

That isn't the general situation though, is it? People feel that they need credit and need to be in the system. Ignoring the argument about whether a personal commitment to repaying debts that you voluntarily take on is a moral obligation, the systemic implications of everyone considering that such repayments aren't worth worrying about and they should just make a "fresh start" are pretty obvious -- no credit for anyone.

I don't actually follow the OP's point that it's getting harder to make a fresh start anyway. In the UK the path to personal bankruptcy seems to have been beaten into a dual carriageway.

[judas]

When I was a kid I learnt that if you borrow money from a financial institution, never worry if you

are unable to pay it back. Let the institution you borrowed from do all the worrying, after all it is their

money. They are charging a premium to lend you the cash. They employ all the experts to asses the risk.

If you can't pay it back, too bad for them. Let them have the sleepless nights while you make a fresh start.

They will always find another mug and charge him more to cover their costs. The borrower always had

the upper hand and power, not the lender. Especially if you borrowed huge amounts. This will change.

Now I also learnt not to borrow or lend to family/friends, so the above could always be applied

if required. I learnt that I should always try and do my best to repay my debts but if I am unable, too bad.

If I did default, I learnt I had to minimise the impact to myself and to do it from a good position.

Life goes on, big world out there. Imagine if more and more people said f%&K it, lets have a fresh start.

I try not to use credit, I have seen in the last twenty years the maturing of the personal credit report and it

has brainwashed people. People got obsessed with their credit score. I have known people work all hours

trying to repay their debt only drop dead. All people were interested in was their credit score.

This depression/recession is only one of many you will see, but one small difference, you had the opportunity to walk away from your debts this time round.

Over the years I have noticed how it is getting increasingly difficult to make a fresh start. The government and industry

will try desperately to make sure you do all the worrying, making sure you repay your debts. The only way

quantitative easing can be applied is when the population pays it's taxes and the only way to guarantee payment of taxes is enslavement to debt.

I think the main flaw/opportunity in this credit crunch, it was easy for people to walk away from their debt.

If that debt was attached to the person, like a sentence then the madness of lending would have continued. I think this is what will happen next. Governments around the world will legislate to make sure all debt must be repaid, making bankruptcy impossible.

They have done this to student loans in the UK.

Russians have their passports confiscated if they default.

They are trying to remove the passports/driving license of parents who do not contribute to child maintenance.

The list will only increase till enslavement is reached. Right now you could break free. If your in a good position

to default, If you tried your best but are sinking then let the institutions do all the worrying, f&*k em, f*%l em all.

Every now and then a post comes along an breaks the cycle of repetition. Here it is.

Most events affecting ones life, come down to perception.

In fact, it is the meaning we lend to an event and not the event itself that colours our emotional life.

If you can go through life with the attitude described in your post, then hell, it is no less valid than the 'end of the world' scenario, so often painted here on HPC.

[Johnny Storm]

Governments around the world will legislate to make sure all debt must be repaid, making bankruptcy impossible.

Id be in favour of that, 100%.

[Bardon]

When the debt is in the form of a mortgage on property there are a few other golden rules:

• Get yourself into mortgages as early as possible;

• Get yourself into as much mortgage as you safely can;

• Hold onto them and never pay them back (including principle and interest).

[spivT]

When the debt is in the form of a mortgage on property there are a few other golden rules:

• Get yourself into mortgages as early as possible;

• Get yourself into as much mortgage as you safely can;

• Hold onto them and never pay them back (including principle and interest).

well, that's the noughties theory, but most of the small property-portfolio holders i know are all paid down. Ofcourse leverage probably comes into it when you have hundreds of properties, but hey, those 'entreprenuers' have always danced to a different tune.

[kingsgate]

When the debt is in the form of a mortgage on property there are a few other golden rules:

• Get yourself into mortgages as early as possible;

• Get yourself into as much mortgage as you safely can;

• Hold onto them and never pay them back (including principle and interest).

Surely mortgages are the worst thing to have in terms of "walking away" because you lose your house.

With credit cards and other unsecured stuff they can't take anything away from you at all.

[Bardon]

Surely mortgages are the worst thing to have in terms of "walking away" because you lose your house.

With credit cards and other unsecured stuff they can't take anything away from you at all.

Well yes if its walk away sceanrio that could be a problem unless its non-recourse.

I was talking about planned debt.

[Authoritarian]

Though I'm not condoning it, I don't understand why more of the heavily indebted don't just give up on their unsecured debts - by either walking away or taking bankruptcy at the earliest opportunity.

The consequences of either are pretty low, and though there must be some level of moral obligation, it seems to be mainly some sort of misguided fear of the system that keeps people in check.

Funny how the debt bubble has been built on such shaky foundations.

And here's the fly in the oinment, the gov't have fixed it for you so that all these debts that don't get repaid get loaded onto the public's balance sheet and now become a taxpayer problem. There's no escaping this debt.

Edited April 25, 2009 by chefdave

[Laughing Gnome]

In the UK the path to personal bankruptcy seems to have been beaten into a dual carriageway.

Nice phrase!

[The Spaniard]

Let's take some good advice from Bob Marley:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11te1_bo...tle-birds_music

[jonpo]

..... And then they TAX you....

[Chest Rockwell]

I can understand what the OP has written and it is a good post - especially the borrowing money from family and friends bit.

But what about the flip side of the coin? The money lent out had to of come from somewhere and so many investors are being ruined by a combination of reckless lending and people walking away from their debts. Now yes some of these investors were just plain greedy but there has to be others who weren't or who were conned into putting their money into these Ponzi schemes. Many investors have worked hard for their money and I would imagine that the 'walk away from the debts' trend is also putting them on the brink of ruin too.

The blame sits squarely on the banks and lending instituations. The victims in this whole mess are those who had the money and those who borrowed the money. The c*nts in the middle just took their bonus, turned up to parliament to say 'Sorry' and are now living it up on the golf course. That's justice for you!

[Injin]

I can understand what the OP has written and it is a good post - especially the borrowing money from family and friends bit.

But what about the flip side of the coin? The money lent out had to of come from somewhere and so many investors are being ruined by a combination of reckless lending and people walking away from their debts. Now yes some of these investors were just plain greedy but there has to be others who weren't or who were conned into putting their money into these Ponzi schemes. Many investors have worked hard for their money and I would imagine that the 'walk away from the debts' trend is also putting them on the brink of ruin too.

The blame sits squarely on the banks and lending instituations. The victims in this whole mess are those who had the money and those who borrowed the money. The c*nts in the middle just took their bonus, turned up to parliament to say 'Sorry' and are now living it up on the golf course. That's justice for you!

When money comes from thin air and has almost zero cost to it's producers, they are obviously not going to be too careful who gets it.

My rule of thumb with friends and family is to never lend, but always give. If they give it back it's then a happy bonus, rather than a bone of contention that can ruin an otherwise perfectly good relationship.

My rule of thumb with banks and other dealers in imaginary wealth is to poke fun at their basic premises.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

I can understand what the OP has written and it is a good post - especially the borrowing money from family and friends bit.

But what about the flip side of the coin? The money lent out had to of come from somewhere and so many investors are being ruined by a combination of reckless lending and people walking away from their debts. Now yes some of these investors were just plain greedy but there has to be others who weren't or who were conned into putting their money into these Ponzi schemes. Many investors have worked hard for their money and I would imagine that the 'walk away from the debts' trend is also putting them on the brink of ruin too.

The blame sits squarely on the banks and lending instituations. The victims in this whole mess are those who had the money and those who borrowed the money. The c*nts in the middle just took their bonus, turned up to parliament to say 'Sorry' and are now living it up on the golf course. That's justice for you!

Au contraire.

Much of the debt in existence is not someone's pension or savings at all. It is literally created out of thin air.

The vast majority of interest bearing debt is merely a futures contract. As you no doubt understand, money is not backed by tangibles like gold or silver. Therefore, they contrived a system where our future sweat laour is the only thing that gives value to momey. This is why a this deflationary depression can only lead to hyperinflation. If people cannot work and service debts, then how can money have value?

If you borrow money from a bank and ask them to invoice you, they wont because that would give the game away. Ask a bank to prove they have actually lent you money. You'll be lucky if you even get a reply because the fact is, they haven't lent you someone elses money. If they invoiced you, you could then demand they prove they have lent you something in a court of law.

You should read Mary Elizabeth Crofts book. It'll explain how virtually all bank credit is a fiction.

http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/freedom/mary_croft.pdf

Debt is not a means to 'capitalize,' it is designed to enslave and to allocate recources. By keeping people in debt for most of their adult lives, they have control over what you consume and how big a share you get of all the stuff. That's mostly what debt is. If you believe Chinese and the Japanese savers have funded this credit bubble with real money, you have completely misunderstood how the system works.

[Mammon]

When I was a kid I learnt that if you borrow money from a financial institution, never worry if you

are unable to pay it back.

Let the institution you borrowed from do all the worrying.

The institutions dont worry either. They are happy to lend recklessly as long as they can ride the bonus gravy train for long enough before it derails.

The government doesnt worry either, they only worry about getting enough votes to cling onto power.

The only people who should worry are the reponsible hard working people with savings and their kids. They will be the ones who pay for all this one day...

[Prof]

When I was a kid I learnt that if you borrow money from a financial institution, never worry if you

are unable to pay it back. Let the institution you borrowed from do all the worrying, after all it is their

money. They are charging a premium to lend you the cash. They employ all the experts to asses the risk.

If you can't pay it back, too bad for them. Let them have the sleepless nights while you make a fresh start.

They will always find another mug and charge him more to cover their costs. The borrower always had

the upper hand and power, not the lender. Especially if you borrowed huge amounts. This will change.

Now I also learnt not to borrow or lend to family/friends, so the above could always be applied

if required. I learnt that I should always try and do my best to repay my debts but if I am unable, too bad.

If I did default, I learnt I had to minimise the impact to myself and to do it from a good position.

Would the person (I assume one or both of your parents, maybe) say that it was OK to take items from a shop and not pay for them ? Would you say that it was OK for your employer to let you do some work, then not pay you for it ?

Now, I`m no fan of the banks, but nobody forces anyone to borrow their money. If the premium that they charge is too much, don`t borrow in the first place. Don`t "punish" the banks by not worrying about paying them back, punish them by not taking their money in the first place.

When I was a kid, I learnt to look after my money, and that debt should be treated with care and respect. If you think there is a fair chance that you`ll struggle to pay back a debt, don`t take it on. It seems that this is a lesson that isn`t being taught or learned any more. The lenders splash the cash, and the borrowers grab it like there`s no tomorrow. No wonder we`re in this mess.

And if you think that I`m being too cautious/old fashioned/sensible/nieve, well let`s put it this way, I don`t worry about the debts that I have to pay back, because I`ve payed them off (silly me).

[Alan B'Stard MP]

If you borrow money from a bank and ask them to invoice you, they wont because that would give the game away. Ask a bank to prove they have actually lent you money. You'll be lucky if you even get a reply because the fact is, they haven't lent you someone elses money. If they invoiced you, you could then demand they prove they have lent you something in a court of law.

Using a personal loan as an example - you don't 'borrow' money from a bank.

You indebt yourself to them by signing a CREDIT agreement.

They then indebt themselves to you by giving you a CREDIT balance; a promise to pay - perfectly acceptable as consideration in common law.

It's then up to them to make good on the credit with other financials institutions / ATM providers when you chose to call in that debt (i.e. spend it / withdraw it).

Edited April 25, 2009 by Alan B'Stard MP

[The Spaniard]

Now, I`m no fan of the banks, but nobody forces anyone to borrow their money. If the premium that they charge is too much, don`t borrow in the first place. Don`t "punish" the banks by not worrying about paying them back, punish them by not taking their money in the first place.

Ah, if only we could all do this.

At any given time we must, collectively, be in net debt to the banking system, at present by several hundreds of billions of pounds.

Theoretically we could pay back existing bank debt with absolutely all the money we have and still we would remain collectively in debt.

However, long before that impasse was reached, the economy would grind to a halt.

Without radical money reform, we are trapped forever on a treadmill of debt, and our whole society operates on a leash held by the banking system.