Tax Tsunami

[KingBingo]

Tax will have to go up, but more significantly spending will have to be cut. Personally I would be in favour of abolishing tax credits and replacing them with a flat tax system with a threshold of about 10k. Public sector needs to be cut by about 25%.

A sensible post, I would just like to add AT LEAST 25%. Utter bear minimum.

[KingBingo]

Well Kingumbongo lives in an alternative universe, but it's not mine.

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to Injin but still...

Name me the banks that failed under the Tories.

Tell me what was good about the economy in 1979.

Tell me what was bad about the economy in 1997.

Tell me about the size of the public sector in 1997.

[Injin]

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to Injin but still...

Name me the banks that failed under the Tories.

Tell me what was good about the economy in 1979.

Tell me what was bad about the economy in 1997.

Tell me about the size of the public sector in 1997.

Sorry?

You don't think I am going to defend labour do you?

[Alba]

GB is riding high on the G20 euphoria. Add in the recent more positive OECD comments re the UK position. Have Darling provide a beneficent budget. Call a snap election. Voila.

[bagsos]

Yes actually. I don't remember any banks collapsing under the Tories. Tories understand finance, which is why its works under them. labour got rid of BoE oversight, set up a MPC crony committee and merged all the functional regulators into the dysfunctional FSA.

The evidence is all their before your eyes. In 1979 the Tories took over a failing country and turned the basket case of Europe, needing IMF bailouts into the 4th richest country in the world. They handed over a Golden economic legacy.

Today we are the basket case of europe, needing IMF bailouts. Spin it anyway you like, it would have been better under the Tories.

BCCI? Jonson Mathey Bank? Barings?

Edit to add - I was on a course last week and the economics lecturer told us that Barclays and Natwest both came within a whisker of failing in 1992 and had to be rescued by a BoE "special operation", all done in secret of course.

You may be right re it would have been better under the Tories, but we will never know. All I do know is that we, collectively, by voting in the most useless democratically elected government of all time in any country anywhere on earth, and by behaving like kids in a sweetshop as soon as there seemed to be money about, have well and truly shafted our children. The current generation is leaving school with such a debased education that it will not be able to trade out of the problems we have, which means that it will take a generation to get over this, and for what. So some numpty can park a financed BMW in front of a MEW'ed Barratt slavebox bought on an 8x salary "Together" mortgage and impress the other numpties who decide to do the same thing. Lunacy. Especially on the treasury's part. And who was in charge at the treasury all that time...............

Edited April 6, 2009 by bagsos

[lordofcolchester]

The top rate of tax under the last labour government was 99%.

Admittedly this was on savings but 99%!!

No wonder we had a brain drain.

[KingBingo]

BCCI? Jonson Mathey Bank? Barings?

Well yes, apart from those!

[lurker07]

Cigarettes : £14.99

Pint of beer: £8.50

:angry:

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

You may be right re it would have been better under the Tories, but we will never know. All I do know is that we, collectively, by voting in the most useless democratically elected government of all time in any country anywhere on earth, and by behaving like kids in a sweetshop as soon as there seemed to be money about, have well and truly shafted our children. The current generation is leaving school with such a debased education that it will not be able to trade out of the problems we have, which means that it will take a generation to get over this, and for what. So some numpty can park a financed BMW in front of a MEW'ed Barratt slavebox bought on an 8x salary "Together" mortgage and impress the other numpties who decide to do the same thing. Lunacy. Especially on the treasury's part. And who was in charge at the treasury all that time...............

Can everyone please stop talking about "Labour" and "Conservative" and "Tories".

They are called ""ConservoLabour".

Their policies are the same, their behaivour is the same, their paymasters are the same, they are THE SAME. Pretending they are different parties is part of what go us in this messin the first place.

[guitarman001]

99% tax on savings!? Tell me more....

I want Labour out - hence a conservative vote. Much preferable - more of the same but better. If there was to be a majority vote for another party..

I think it'll be a vote of no confidence tbh..

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Then we would not have had 10 years of sustained growth you numpty.

Im better off with a labour goverment.....so muff the torries and muff you.

Genius.

[huw]

BCCI? Jonson Mathey Bank? Barings?

Not entirely comparable to what we're seeing now with UK institutions failing left and right.

BCCI was a Luxembourg bank with UK branches and significant UK business; would seem more comparable to the Icelandic banks rather than to a collapsed UK bank.

JMB is perhaps the closest analogue, as far as I can make out. But were the problems due to something the Tories changed (c.f. Brown's wholesale reform of the regulatory system) and was the bomb already ticking prior to 1979? It's hard to be sure because the case still seems shrouded in mystery; maybe something will come out eventually under the 50-year rule. One thing I could find was the scale of the debts: an estimated $309 million, pocket change by today's standards.

I'm not sure how much of the blame for Barings can be laid at the door of the regulators; from what I recall Leeson was hiding his activities from his own internal accounting people, so short of supervising internal procedures it's hard to see what the BoE could have done (?)

[Errol]

I for one welcome paying more tax. I trust Gordon completely and know that he will put the nation's tax revenue to use in helping hard working families and dealing with the global financial crisis.

[porca misèria]

BCCI? Jonson Mathey Bank? Barings?

And the big difference: no bailouts! The tories didn't pour all the country's wealth into the void and send us into a death spiral.

OTOH, they did con us with an unsustainable pension system, and promises that were bound to fail for those under a certain age.

[Peter Hun]

Can everyone please stop talking about "Labour" and "Conservative" and "Tories".

They are called ""ConservoLabour".

Their policies are the same, their behaivour is the same, their paymasters are the same, they are THE SAME. Pretending they are different parties is part of what go us in this messin the first place.

Damn right. Why do you think they call themselves New Labour?

Because they have stolen the Tories policies. They are in no way Socialist, a fact acknowledged by the Tories who are willing to match their policies when they get into power.

Speaking as a former Labour voter, now Conservative.

[South Lorne]

Im better off with a labour goverment.....

.....you have given up all hope.......

[nest]

What is the news re tax on Savings ?

[South Lorne]

The top rate of tax under the last labour government was 99%.

Admittedly this was on savings but 99%!!

No wonder we had a brain drain.

....few have savings now ....and if they do they earn next to nothing ....try taxing that at 99%....

[Peter Hun]

This is what I keep saying to folks - tax will HAVE to go up... what to? 35% basic rate?

8% basic rate is required. So I reckon we will get 2% on basic, more on higher rate (5%?) and increases of other taxes. 19% VAT? More Duty of course.

Plus cuts of course.

[South Lorne]

Can everyone please stop talking about "Labour" and "Conservative" and "Tories".

They are called ""ConservoLabour".

Their policies are the same, their behaivour is the same, their paymasters are the same, they are THE SAME. Pretending they are different parties is part of what go us in this messin the first place.

...and you are involved in or creating which party ...?.....

[Injin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

In economics, the Laffer curve is used to illustrate the idea that increases in the rate of taxation do not necessarily increase tax revenue. (For instance, a 100 percent income tax will generate no revenue, as citizens will have no incentive to make money). Increasing taxes beyond the peak of the curve point will decrease tax revenue. The Laffer curve was popularized by Arthur Laffer (b. 1940) in the 1980s. However, the idea is not new to him, nor did he claim as much: it dates to the 14th century North African polymath Ibn Khaldun, who discusses the idea in his 1377 Muqaddimah. More recently, in his General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money, John Maynard Keynes described how past a certain point, increasing taxation would lower revenue and vice versa.[1]

It's the perfect storm. They can't inflate without killing the economy and higher taxes will also kill what's left of the economy.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Injin

[South Lorne]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

In economics, the Laffer curve

...this is beyond the logic of the current crew....brute force and ignorance describes the Brown / Darling touch....

[dhpcza]

I dunno why people assume a right-wing government would do better than the left wing labour (I dont consider this new labour lot to be left wing by the way). Dubya Bush and his merry men were right wing, he was there in charge for 8 years and the US financial system hasnt exactly done brilliantly has it? Right/Left, all meaningless labels for the same group of pigs.

There is no real left wing socialism in this country the same as there is no libertarian right wing politics. What we get is a centrist mish-mash, the worst of both worlds (unless you are at/near the top of the tree of course).

[dinsdale]

There is no real left wing socialism in this country the same as there is no libertarian right wing politics. What we get is a centrist mish-mash, the worst of both worlds (unless you are at/near the top of the tree of course).

24 Criminal justice bills in 10 years (when the previous average was 1 per 10 years) ain't centrist. This has been the most authoritarian Government in British history. Passing a few liberal measures (like civil partnerships) seems to have thrown a lot of people off the scent.

[dhpcza]

24 Criminal justice bills in 10 years (when the previous average was 1 per 10 years) ain't centrist. This has been the most authoritarian Government in British history. Passing a few liberal measures (like civil partnerships) seems to have thrown a lot of people off the scent.

Where would you put them on the left/right-o-meter? I'd say letting the city behave like the wild west is pretty right wing, but then all the tax rises (for us sub-norms) is very left wing. Hence, centre-ist sh1te (imo).