Housing - Why Bother

[jonewer]

I think the US will eventually recover faster than us and shoot ahead. It may be like the post-WW2 years when the UK remained a bleak, grey place of shortage through the late 40s and the 50s whilst the US was energetic, profitable and happy?

Thats because the US took all our money.

[Shao Kahn]

He said, 'I get a streetlight'

The local retailers are all paying crippling business rates. He said he doesn't know how any of them turn a profit. Judging by the number of retailers going out of business in Crawley, evidently they don't.

Oh......and yes.....it's a Labour run council

At least they get that. Around here, one of the streetlights out the back was ploughed into about a year ago now, and bent. Because it was built so close to the communal garden fence, it took the top of the fence out when it bent. I've been waiting a year now for it to be mended and I can't fix the fence either until it is done. As a result, the fence is now going mouldy and is falling down. I don't have responsibility to fix the fence, as I rent through a housing association, but I want it to look nice here, and besides, when I used to sit in the garden last summer, it the sight of it used to piss me off, so I want it fixed before this summer begins.

The only useful thing I get out of the council tax etc is the opportunity to use the library and to visit the art gallery, which, to be fair, are activities that I enjoy and value.

[tomwatkins]

So even the US Fed thinks the UK housing market is fecked!

I read somewhere recently that the US had enough new empty housing to last decades and that States such as Flordia have enough new empty housing to last the entre century.

I live in the North East near Boston but we have a "home office" near Orlando. Thing is that the continual influx of people in to the state makes it a bit unique. The overbuilding has been crazy but only really in a few areas. This inventory will take time to work through but it will be shorter than most places such as California for instance. Reason? Low taxes and cheap stuff like food and fags, drinks etc. No sales tax as well which makes a big difference. All designed to attract retirees which is does. Plus the weather. They will even give you a drivers license on a "B" visa. Still a great place to leave Britain for IMHO.

[The Masked Tulip]

I live in the North East near Boston but we have a "home office" near Orlando. Thing is that the continual influx of people in to the state makes it a bit unique. The overbuilding has been crazy but only really in a few areas. This inventory will take time to work through but it will be shorter than most places such as California for instance. Reason? Low taxes and cheap stuff like food and fags, drinks etc. No sales tax as well which makes a big difference. All designed to attract retirees which is does. Plus the weather. They will even give you a drivers license on a "B" visa. Still a great place to leave Britain for IMHO.

Don't the hurricanes blowing down your neighbourhood worry you? Are all the women like those in CSI Miami?

[tomwatkins]

Thats because the US took all our money.

Agreed. This place (the US) is just so big. They have reserves of oil, gold never mined yet. They could expand farming in an instant and feed themselves. They don't deserve it but they have it. Just a fact a life and the reason I agree that they will be first to recover. Once drove along 1-80 east wo west and there were times when I went ten full minutes I timed it) when bored when I never saw another car or truck. I think they will start and encourage immigration again providing you have a little dough.

[tomwatkins]

Don't the hurricanes blowing down your neighbourhood worry you? Are all the women like those in CSI Miami?

Nah. We are inland in Orlando and you get used to them. Don't see many babes, mostly a lot of fatties where we are. We have worse winds in Rhode iSland continually in Winter. In fact hurricane debris is good for us as we do composting and grinding of green waste. One mans meat and all that. Pretty well recession proof as we also compost human waste. As long as people keep crapping we will be OK.

[The Masked Tulip]

Nah. We are inland in Orlando and you get used to them. Don't see many babes, mostly a lot of fatties where we are. We have worse winds in Rhode iSland continually in Winter. In fact hurricane debris is good for us as we do composting and grinding of green waste. One mans meat and all that. Pretty well recession proof as we also compost human waste. As long as people keep crapping we will be OK.

You are John Connor, you are sleeping with a robot and preparing for the end of the World?

[Authoritarian]

can we get rid of this ignorant assertion that renting is burning money

it isn't, unless you can't do the maths...

I'm with the sheeple on this one.

Renting is dead money.

It's cheap compared with buying a house, but I would hardly describe many renters that I know jump with joy at the minimal rent they pay and the vast sums they're left with at the end of every month.

Renting is bloody expensive and unless you're on a very good wage will take up the bulk of your pay.

[Johnny Cash]

I'm with the sheeple on this one.

Renting is dead money.

What do you think interest paid on a mortgage is?

[Johnny Cash]

How long is it going to be before loads of bright 20-somethings figure out how much debt the UK is in, that the next decade at least is going to be painful and they simply opt to go overseas? This is a generation who have never known financial difficulty, who have always had easy compared to previous generations and some of them may well now decide to up sticks and move overseas.

Heck, I am thinking about it more myself.

Never going to happen.

I doubt one person in 500 leaves school with the ability to speak another language with the fluency required to get a job in a non English speaking country.

And from what I see of the product of TCBs "Education, Education Education" BS I doubt that the US, OZ etc will be welcoming them with open arms either.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Johnny Cash

[Shao Kahn]

Never going to happen.

I doubt one person in 500 leaves school with the ability to speak another language with the fluency required to get a job in a non English speaking country.

And from what I see of the product of TCBs "Education, Education Education" BS I doubt that the US, OZ etc will be welcoming them with open arms either.

They don't have to move abroad, though, there might be other problems with regards to legacies that may occur, due to a dwindling base of renters - see my prior post. I'm not saying it will occur, just that it might. I don't know, I'm just hypothesising here.

[Executive Sadman]

Never going to happen.

I doubt one person in 500 leaves school with the ability to speak another language with the fluency required to get a job in a non English speaking country.

And from what I see of the product of TCBs "Education, Education Education" BS I doubt that the US, OZ etc will be welcoming them with open arms either.

I agree, most of the young bucks of today get excited by the prospect of handing over half a mill for a crappy shared ownership Inner city slumbox while theyre on a £15k starter salary. UK 2014 cant really be much more depressing than that can it? Peoples expectations have been slowly massaged downwards in the past few years in preperation for the impending economic morass. Apathy begets apathy.

[Shao Kahn]

I agree, most of the young bucks of today get excited by the prospect of handing over half a mill for a crappy shared ownership Inner city slumbox while theyre on a £15k starter salary. UK 2014 cant really be much more depressing than that can it? Peoples expectations have been slowly massaged downwards in the past few years in preperation for the impending economic morass. Apathy begets apathy.

Methinks you are overexaggerating about the possibilites and practicalities of doing this, even in the former boom period!

Although, you make a valid point about the desire to do this, and unfortunately this suicide wish is still with us...

[workingnomad]

renter rents for 25 years, hb pays mortgage for 25 years.....

whats the difference between them? renter has sweet fa to show for it.

[Si1]

renter rents for 25 years, hb pays mortgage for 25 years.....

whats the difference between them? renter has sweet fa to show for it.

if the renter invests the difference sensibly, chances are that he'll be considerably richer than the buyer. of course plenty of renters p*ss it up the wall so there is the enforced savings aspect of buying.

also, most people are sh*t private investors and housing has done quite well compared to nothing.

adjusted for inflation, owning a house has returned something like 3 or 4 x original price over 50 yrs, whereas tracker-stockmarket return is about 40 or 50 times over same time-period.

most people try to get too clever when privately investing and blow it, so housing does ok for them.

[Pindar]

Shouldn't have started me on Germany

It is a very good example of what our property prices will be like in 10-20% unemployment rates (predictions are now for 25%)

Notice that it is fully refurbished, more than 6000sqft and under £240,000

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-proper...xPrice%3D280000

Looks like somebody used Google translate to do the German-to-English description.

[Happy Teaboy]

if the renter invests the difference sensibly, chances are that he'll be considerably richer than the buyer. of course plenty of renters p*ss it up the wall so there is the enforced savings aspect of buying.

also, most people are sh*t private investors and housing has done quite well compared to nothing.

adjusted for inflation, owning a house has returned something like 3 or 4 x original price over 50 yrs, whereas tracker-stockmarket return is about 40 or 50 times over same time-period.

most people try to get too clever when privately investing and blow it, so housing does ok for them.

Are you trying to justify a decision for not owning a house by posting, on more than one thread, that a person can invest so wisely in other areas they will make more of a return. Your perhaps irritating your audience who either

1 want to have a house to live in and call theirs.

2 have house/houses and invest across all different areas

plus your stats are laughable.

[wii_timber]

did you know its valentines day?

does he live on the moon?

... they are probably selling cheap pink cr@p in the shape of a heart on mars right now.....

how could anyone not know! What until tomorro tho all the easter sh!t will be out .....as if anyone in this country needs to eat more chocolate with its obesity spiralling out of control...

[Si1]

edit: redoing figures...

re-edit: ok here goes, simpler than I thought:

Are you trying to justify a decision for not owning a house by posting, on more than one thread, that a person can invest so wisely in other areas they will make more of a return. Your perhaps irritating your audience who either

1 want to have a house to live in and call theirs.

2 have house/houses and invest across all different areas

plus your stats are laughable.

you have a point - I need to include the imputed income from rent not paid (stockmarket stats take dividends into account so I need to do this too)

long term stockmarket returns are cited as 8-9% in the past and 7% per annum looking forward (I'm thinking of J C Bogle's analysis), so you need 7%, after costs, imputed income from saved rent. this does not include any above-inflation rise in value of the house, which I really don't expect over next 10yrs at least.

My nice rented house probably gives about 4-5% currently, so either a further apporx 30% price fall is required, or rents to increase 30% (other things being unchanged) to make property competitive at current prices against expected conservative all-stockmarket growth

edit: additional figures:

all-stockmarket tracker growth at 7% pa over 50 yrs: approx 30x initial investment

buying a house, considering LAST 50yrs growth assuming same over next 50 yrs (I doubt it...) plus 5% imputed rent, in turn invested in stockmaket at 7%, return: approx 25x

it's much less of a gap than I expected. pretty crude figure mind you.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Si1

[the-sign-jacker]

thing is, I do love my country - ooop nooorth at any rate - and would hate to leave

its then a shame that your country loves you as much as a farmer loves his livestock.

he'll keep them fed and alive, but butcher them in the end.

I'm with the sheeple on this one.

Renting is dead money.

It's cheap compared with buying a house, but I would hardly describe many renters that I know jump with joy at the minimal rent they pay and the vast sums they're left with at the end of every month.

Renting is bloody expensive and unless you're on a very good wage will take up the bulk of your pay.

renter rents for 25 years, hb pays mortgage for 25 years.....

whats the difference between them? renter has sweet fa to show for it.

i rented for 9 years at 280pcm. (i only do cheap rent so i can save and invest in gold).

i worked hard and saved hard.

the rental cost was £30k with no repair bills. a mortgage repayment for that period would have cost 60k

this year alone i have saved 20k on falling house prices and also made 25% on my cash investments.

so i have a snowball of roughly 50k earning 25% a year and cant be repossessed. my tenancy is a secure HA.

had i bought in 2001 i would have paid off 40% of the loan. owing a further 80k. (this is at tiny 2001 prices).

even at PRE BOOM prices it now seems like ill beat you to owning that house outright

by saving, investing and renting cheaply.

things are so bad landlords are falling over themselves to fight or keep a tenant, thats going to get a lot worse (cheaper) as unemployment bites and repo's pile onto the housing market.

when you buy, all your purchasing is a dead static life of slavery.

Edited February 15, 2009 by the-sign-jacker

[Fortune]

Yep, debt is slavery. I pulled out of buying a 1 bed flat in 2007. I even spent over a grand on fees and miscellaneous costs. However, that move was one of the BEST decisions I ever made in my life. Why? Because I took my 30% deposit and put it ALL into Gold and Silver. As of Feb 2009, I have made an approximate 30% return with NO debt or bank slavery involved. So Gordo, put that in your pipe and smoke it! At this rate - and if I can be arsed, that is - I will be able to buy a modest semi in CASH by 2011 or even sooner. The thing is though, I'm not sure if I want to live in the UK ever again so I'll review the situation come 2011. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy the entertainment and the company of the 'renting is dead money' crew. I wish you guys good luck - you will certainly need it....

- Currently waiting and smugly laughing in Asia

[the-sign-jacker]

Yep, debt is slavery. I pulled out of buying a 1 bed flat in 2007. I even spent over a grand on fees and miscellaneous costs. However, that move was one of the BEST decisions I ever made in my life. Why? Because I took my 30% deposit and put it ALL into Gold and Silver. As of Feb 2009, I have made an approximate 30% return with NO debt or bank slavery involved. So Gordo, put that in your pipe and smoke it! At this rate - and if I can be arsed, that is - I will be able to buy a modest semi in CASH by 2011 or even sooner. The thing is though, I'm not sure if I want to live in the UK ever again so I'll review the situation come 2011. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy the entertainment and the company of the 'renting is dead money' crew. I wish you guys good luck - you will certainly need it....

- Currently waiting and smugly laughing in Asia

plus you prevented a uk bank lending your deposits to a speculator.

badge of honor in the post.

[LazyPeon]

Listen to you lot,

what a set of miserable, cynical, cantankerous old bastards.

You're right though! hehe.

[Fortune]

Listen to you lot,

what a set of miserable, cynical, cantankerous old bastards.

You're right though! hehe.

bump

[workingnomad]

me too