The Welcome Thread For New Members

[Digsby]

@Pablosammy Glad you've taken the plunge (in posting). I wouldn't be surprised if you were right re prices in Lancashire, but the tax changes affect BTLers everywhere, and if they are refraining from expanding their portfolios until they work through it all, lower demand, especially in starter homes, should mean lower prices.

I'd say that as long as your deposit is growing at a rate that means your required LTV is shrinking, no reason to be in much of a rush. Worth hanging on till the winter at least if you're not after anything particularly special - as in, options come up regularly.

[Pablosammy]

@Pablosammy Glad you've taken the plunge (in posting). I wouldn't be surprised if you were right re prices in Lancashire, but the tax changes affect BTLers everywhere, and if they are refraining from expanding their portfolios until they work through it all, lower demand, especially in starter homes, should mean lower prices.

I'd say that as long as your deposit is growing at a rate that means your required LTV is shrinking, no reason to be in much of a rush. Worth hanging on till the winter at least if you're not after anything particularly special - as in, options come up regularly.

I'm certainly in the 'wait a few years' camp, but 'er indoors thinks otherwise. We've just moved into a rental that will certainly do for the next year or so, so I might continue to watch from the sidelines. I just hope I'm not the last bear to turn bull.

It'll take some persuasion (and hopefully she'll like the new rental we've just moved into), but in the meantime it's a case of save save save. Who knows, we could be buying with cash in 5 years time...

[Burrito]

Hi,

Stumbled upon here from the ‘Simple Living in Suffolk’ blog. Had a browse. Found myself nodding in agreement with much of the sentiment - BTL outbidding FTBs, impending rising interest rates, BTL income tax relief tapering, etc.

I’m incredibly frustrated. You could say I’m part of ‘generation rent’. I would LOVE to buy somewhere - but can’t bring myself to mortgage myself to the hilt for a shoebox in a crap area. It’s absolutely nuts.

I’m in a fantastic position for someone of my age. I say this not to brag - but to highlight the absurdity of the situation. I’m 26. I have £240k in liquid assets (cash/equity/bonds/gold), mostly from getting lucky working for a tech startup, with a bit of saving. No debt. Salary of £60k pa.

So by borrowing 4.25x income, I could in theory get me a place of £500k - 8.3x income - by leveraging a mortgage of ~50% LTV. IF - and a big if in my view - I sign my life away to pay £1,500 for 25 years - more if interest rates rise.

I live and work in London. I recently went to look at a 2-bed new-build somewhere called ‘Catford’(i) - ~20 minutes train out of London Bridge. It’s £400k for a shoebox 2-bed new build. The sales goon told me that all other first-time buyers are using help to buy. So the genuine buyers are effectively bidding 20% more than they could otherwise afford. FFS.

ALL my friends and family - pretty much without exception - are telling me if I don’t buy now, I might miss out on ever being able to own a home. “Get on the ladder while you still can!”

Well that’s a risk I think I’ll be have to take. Worst case I can still (currently) migrate up North and buy somewhere cash, at least.

Here’s hoping that you lot will keep my sane while I try to ride out this madness.

— Dave.

(i) http://www.barratthomes.co.uk/new-homes/greater-london/h637801-catford-green/

[Tapori]

Hi,

Stumbled upon here from the ‘Simple Living in Suffolk’ blog. Had a browse. Found myself nodding in agreement with much of the sentiment - BTL outbidding FTBs, impending rising interest rates, BTL income tax relief tapering, etc.

I’m incredibly frustrated. You could say I’m part of ‘generation rent’. I would LOVE to buy somewhere - but can’t bring myself to mortgage myself to the hilt for a shoebox in a crap area. It’s absolutely nuts.

I’m in a fantastic position for someone of my age. I say this not to brag - but to highlight the absurdity of the situation. I’m 26. I have £240k in liquid assets (cash/equity/bonds/gold), mostly from getting lucky working for a tech startup, with a bit of saving. No debt. Salary of £60k pa.

So by borrowing 4.25x income, I could in theory get me a place of £500k - 8.3x income - by leveraging a mortgage of ~50% LTV. IF - and a big if in my view - I sign my life away to pay £1,500 for 25 years - more if interest rates rise.

I live and work in London. I recently went to look at a 2-bed new-build somewhere called ‘Catford’(i) - ~20 minutes train out of London Bridge. It’s £400k for a shoebox 2-bed new build. The sales goon told me that all other first-time buyers are using help to buy. So the genuine buyers are effectively bidding 20% more than they could otherwise afford. FFS.

ALL my friends and family - pretty much without exception - are telling me if I don’t buy now, I might miss out on ever being able to own a home. “Get on the ladder while you still can!”

Well that’s a risk I think I’ll be have to take. Worst case I can still (currently) migrate up North and buy somewhere cash, at least.

Here’s hoping that you lot will keep my sane while I try to ride out this madness.

— Dave.

(i) http://www.barratthomes.co.uk/new-homes/greater-london/h637801-catford-green/

Hello everyone.

This. Well done you my friend for the success.

This bold part is why I ventured forth to this forum and I've learned so much. Everyone telling me, even I'd convinced myself, "I have to buy or I'll miss the boat" Yet all I could realistically afford would be a rubber dingy even in places that are not that nice.

So I thought "Hang on, if I put 300k plus on my head as debt I best do my own research. think for myself and all that"

Bland Unsight's shoblerant should be first given to Faisal Islam (tweet it to him?) and distributed across my generation. Fascinating, passionate and well informed with a good dose of hilarious pop culture references and humour. You sir, are an absolute legend. I hear you're a physics teacher and your pupils must be having a crackin time in class. You and everyone here have convinced me.

I'm 27, moved to London a few years back in search of fame fortune (i.e: A good job) and have had to move family down from t'North these past few months once I got on my feet.

Finding somewhere to rent here is absurd; I've been lucky. Then "Oooh, you better save up quick, work every hour of the day and get a shoebox near london in a shit area or get a 3 bedroom house miles away from London"

I'm one part landlord "scum" on account of my parents having bought in the late 70's; so as a family, between 4 members we have a fully paid asset. 1 part renter, as our rent from our home covers half of the rent we have to pay in London. When I lived on my own I could only afford a room in a shared house. People share rooms in a shared house. That's crazy.

My father who went from being a factory worker to a self-made businessman always mentioned that debt was slavery and I see it so clearly now; worst comes to worst I develop a coke habit, or my future wife rinses my wallet or whatever, I can always move back up north to accommodation which is mortgage free.

What always stuck with me was his diehard insistence that when he had made good money he would not ever consider buying rows upon rows of normal residential houses just to rent out like some neo feudal Dickensian landlord - Many of his friends did - because

"Your denying someone a chance to own their own home, if you do that son. You take that away from people or deny them somewhere decent to live then you take away their dignity and humanity. If you ever achieve financial success don't be a dik" -

His memories as an orphan having to rent in appalling conditions stayed with him.

But even in my parents day, rents and house prices were never this absurd. I'm not against prvate property (I would say that wouldn't I?) but it should be fair.

Decent, quality social housing, capped public and private sector rented accommodation available and a good mix of private housing that people can rent or buy.

Regulated lettings market - at the moment its a wild west.

Essentially, leave speculation for those building or renovating.,

-

BTL - Amazing how many family and friends are unaware of any of these btl changes. Seriously. People with good incomes and 10 leveraged btl's acting like they're billy big ******** not knowing the iceberg that's coming there way. Hilarious.

So based on the info and committee hearings that I watched starring Ozzy G AKA The Chancellor, I suspect the shit will hit the pants of these "entrepreneurs" once 2017 drops..

I'd expect the mainstream media murmurings about a crash to begin when interest rates go up next year and then when these amateur guys start figuring out their BTL "Portfolios" are to be taxed, they'll try to take the Capital accrued by selling up.

But so will everyone else.

And then the popcorn time will begin.

[Bland Unsight]

Hello everyone.

This. Well done you my friend for the success.

This bold part is why I ventured forth to this forum and I've learned so much. Everyone telling me, even I'd convinced myself, "I have to buy or I'll miss the boat" Yet all I could realistically afford would be a rubber dingy even in places that are not that nice.

...

Welcome to the forum. I appear to have missed the boat in about 1999. At that time I didn't realise that there was a boat!

Houses should be boring, banks should be boring. The idea that one must make a dubious pact with a crap bank and surrender ones life's savings to get a crap house seems to me to be a dodgy foundation upon which to build a society.

I'm thrilled you enjoyed the book.Thank you for posting to say as much.

Nobody should have to learn about mortgage finance just to secure access to shelter on acceptable terms, (I don't need to learn about sewage treatment to get potable water out of the tap). We need to find a way to constructively object to the shortcomings of the institutions (banks) that are allowing house prices to accelerate away from earnings and resist any "That's just the way it is" BS. That is not the way it was.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Bland Unsight

[chiefofwales]

Hello!

I've been a lurker for a few years now, reading all the various postings and discussions on the current market in the UK. I find this forum a real breath of fresh air compared with the mainstream rubbish about housing I seem to get from everywhere else.

I'm in a position where I need some clear, honest advice about what to do which I will post about in the "all about buying, selling and mortgages" (so not to clog this up)

Great to register and thanks for having me on board!

[Ed_Davies]

I'm new. I followed a link from another site to a self-build thread in here. I am not a self builder but I am renovating an old and knackered house that was all I could afford. I'm slowly renovating it as time and money allow. When I first got it, it was as bad a squat, but it's getting much better now that I have windows and a bit of insulation in the roof.

I waited a while to buy because house prices were mad expensive. I stayed in rentals, couch surfed, shared houses while I got together a deposit. I finally found a place on an auction website. It had all the pipes, wiring, lead off the roof ripped out. Some tiles had fallen off the roof and some windows had been broken and then boarded up. I bought it for cash with my deposit and I pitched a tent in the living room and camped in the house while I did the emergency repairs.

I'm still a mile away from having it complete but its dry and secure now at least.

[Man of Kent]

Hello. I am the same Man of Kent that wound up that corpulent bounder Fergus Wilson over on PT.

[Neverwhere]

Hello. I am the same Man of Kent that wound up that corpulent bounder Fergus Wilson over on PT.

I think a little of that was reposted over here at one point. Nice work.

[Bland Unsight]

Hello. I am the same Man of Kent that wound up that corpulent bounder Fergus Wilson over on PT.

Welcome aboard.

[Maximus Skepticus]

Hi,

Firstly congratulations to the front line, and the hardcore faction on here who muster the energy to post relentlessly any tasty morsel of HPC/ bear news and proactively antagonise HPI ramping in a rational and logical manner, usually...I have been watching for sometime, but feel out of my depth with economic insights. Although I now excuse some of the typos. Secondly, I feel honored to join the party at what feels (right now) like the second wave of the great unwinding....the start of the end of fraudulent central bank intervention and corrupt governments, heres praying. Have been watching too much Keiser Report...he cracks me up, when I'm not so upset by it all!!

My script; looking for somewhere peaceful and easy to live within my means as I build a business (probably still only able to rent if HPC)...and I realise that means outside of the UK (have previously lived in Italy, should have stayed, but left 2 weeks prior to Lehmans etc). Perpetually disturbed by friends etc who feel they have found the answer to their dreams of wealth and 'own' multiple properties, BTL, abroad blah blah, but increasly despise their jobs that support that apparent wealth. Although happily except free beer from them. Am overly eager for the real economy to get going, hence why I spend far too much time being vigilant online / forums for indicators to time any business investments. Am quite a Europhile but dont agree in the levels of mass immigration to SW, if thats not too hypocritical. Never really liked London, especially less so in the last few years with an outsiders perspective of how much a rip-off cesspit it really is, ......with crap weather just to rub it in. Other than that, quite cheery

[bushblairandbrown]

Here goes my new year's resolution to start posting on here. Discovered it last year and was relieved to see there were at least a few sane people left in the country. I often retreat here for reassurance after hearing something particularly moronic or outrageous. Typical examples are friends buying flats in London for £400k+, friends paying insane rents to live in hovels, friends praising the intelligence of some idiot who made money "flipping" properties, a relation bragging about their brilliance buying their council house many years ago at a huge discount, parents wanting to shovel pension money into property... the list goes on. I myself rented in London for a few years, realised it was awful, moved out to a commuter town and bought the cheapest acceptable place to be found. It wasn't so much an investment as a hedge against further HPI, and just to get out of renting which I found to be awful every time (poor maintenance, useless landlords, rents rising, nonsense surcharges). I'd still prefer to see a HPC than further HPI. My ideal outcome would be a slow and gradual decline in prices. Wishful thinking, I realise.

[TrevorJL]

Like others, I have been lurking here for some months. I've been a long term amateur BTL landlord, originally we just kept a house for rent when we moved, then more recently we actively bought 3 more 'as a pension plan'. I feel like Daniel entering the lion's den saying that here!

Following Osborne's announcement of tax changes I did a load of Googling, which eventually brought me here. Suffice to say that the first BTL is now on the market (we've just accepted an offer) and I have plans to sell the others over the next few years. I think you guys are right that an HPC is imminent, or at least that the risk is high enough for me to act.

So I guess if nothing else this is anecdotal evidence that at least some BTL'ers are starting to offload (in my case, ahead of the crowd I hope).

[Bland Unsight]

Like others, I have been lurking here for some months. I've been a long term amateur BTL landlord, originally we just kept a house for rent when we moved, then more recently we actively bought 3 more 'as a pension plan'. I feel like Daniel entering the lion's den saying that here!

You've made me pull the Good Book off my bookshelf! I think if you're prepared to do a little research (as you have done) and then come to the forum with clean hands (as you have also done) the natives should be friendly. Good luck off-loading the property.

My anxiety is that as I spend way too much time trying to wind up BTL lurkers I read with slight horror that Darius dealt with Daniel's accusers by pitching them into the lion's den (and their wives and children too!) and, according to the NIV "before they reached the floor of the den, the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones", (Daniel 6:24). Hence, I won't be accusing you of anything...

Welcome to the forum.

[TrevorJL]

Thanks for the generous welcome, Bland Unsight! It was actually your 'Goodbye to all that..' series - I read it eagerly as you issued the various parts - that got me thinking, and eventually made me change direction. So thanks for that.

[Onlymedave]

Hi all

I am profoundly deaf 34 year old from sw greater london stuck at home with my parents.

I been saving up, got about 40k & struggling to buy my own place.

I hope alot on here are right perdicting there will be a property crash at some point, cant come sooner enough for me.

I don't want a small studio flat paying a huge mortgage for the rest of my life if there lighly to be a properties crash.

[long time lurking]

Hi all

I am profoundly deaf 34 year old from sw greater london stuck at home with my parents.

I been saving up, got about 40k & struggling to buy my own place.

I hope alot on here are right perdicting there will be a property crash at some point, cant come sooner enough for me.

I don't want a small studio flat paying a huge mortgage for the rest of my life if there lighly to be a properties crash.

Welcome to the pariah state ,take solace in the fact you are not the only one in the that situation there's probably millions out there in the exact same situation

Edited January 27, 2016 by long time lurking

[GrizzlyDave]

My first post - but I have lurked for a while (OK make that a decade!)

40yrs old, bought first home 2005 (felt like it was the top of the market, but life happens). Bought for £150k now £200 according to Zoopla (an overestimate easily of £10-£20k). Mortgage down to £100k.

Work as a contractor for the last couple of years, earning £420-£480 a day into my Ltd company. Take home (wages, dividends, expenses) is working out at around £5,500 a month. Not to be sniffed at. I am the sole bread winner.

There has been absolutely no BOMAD with my story.

Been on 3 foreign holidays in the last 15 years, clothes from Tesco, rarely go out, no hobbies etc. On the massive grind to bag as much cash (£70k in ISAs so far) and praying for a crash! I feel like life is skipping me by. I work so very hard to try and better myself and family, but the climb doesn't seem to be levelling off.

Want to buy a proper family home (4 bed detached, garden, schools etc). Where I live (South West), you are talking £450k minimum. Crazy money. I think we could do it, but it would be wage slave tastic, and I must be in the top 2% of wage earners.

I feel very angry at how property has become purely an asset and not just homes. I find it hard to reconcile the inequality across the generations. As a Ltd Co, I find it very frustrating how little big corps pay in taxes compared to my business.

[Tapori]

Welcome. Good post. Your income bracket is what BTL/Gov hope will buy the overvalued properties. Good to see you can sense the madness.

[Amiinsane]

Not strictly a new member as I used to post on here many years ago. Drifted back to the site as the London insanity drags on. There seem to be a lot more people talking about the property market in negative terms. However. I think the last bailout has given people confidence that the government will step in with debt forgiveness for homeowners rather than see them go bust. Personally I'm trapped renting in London after a messy divorce with no hope of getting a mortgage on my single salary even with a decent deposit. Life seems like a struggle. There's no sense to a market where you're locked out on an average salary if you didn't buy years ago. How can you have a generational society when people under 40 have no chance of owning a home unless they take on crushing debt they can never seriously pay back £300k plus? Are you kidding me?

[GrizzlyDave]

Life seems like a struggle. There's no sense to a market where you're locked out on an average salary if you didn't buy years ago. How can you have a generational society when people under 40 have no chance of owning a home unless they take on crushing debt they can never seriously pay back £300k plus? Are you kidding me?

It is crazy. Expectations are high (thanks Kirsty & Phil), most people are in the hock pretending to have it made because they lease a flashy car. Don't fall for it. It is an illusion.

There is the fortune of birth as a big factor. Those who bought late '90s have it made. And only those of a certain age got a ticket to that game.

BOMAD is a huge factor. Everyone I know (except me( has been gifted tens of thousands deposit. You can't compete with that.

Society is divided and migrants are filling in the gap. Boomers sit looking done from their thrones, and bankers rule the world.

[NiceToSeeYouToSeeYouNice]

Good morning fellow HPCers. I've been reading the site since back in 2005, and was an occasional poster but lost my username/email details.

Back in the day (2005), I was working in London, in finance, and people used to squint their eyes and look at me sideways when I said the house market was a giant bubble that would surely burst. For family reasons, I moved away from London in 2006 and managed to secure a small, characterful 3-bed house with a mortgage that is now almost paid off. An almost random move that has proven to be the most lucky thing in my life to date.

What has happened since globally is quite astonishing, but what has happened in London has taken my breath away.

Since around 2011 I've returned to HPC and been reading on a semi-regular basis; like many of you I have felt that "something just isn't right" on many levels - with the economy, with the government and particularly with the housing market. From the posts on here, the evidence I see in my daily life and the various articles in the media, my conclusion is that they have effectively tried to "paint over" the issues that caused the 2007/2008 crash, with the net effect of making the (now looming) next crash far worse.

I have two kids (one in school, one approaching school age) and I fear for their future. The only people I see around me who seem to be comfortable are the retired. When I was growing up it was the other way around, those in work were buying new cars, having multiple holidays a year and new kitchens fitted, etc.

I think 2016 is going to be a very memorable year.

[Tapori]

Good morning fellow HPCers. I've been reading the site since back in 2005, and was an occasional poster but lost my username/email details.

Back in the day (2005), I was working in London, in finance, and people used to squint their eyes and look at me sideways when I said the house market was a giant bubble that would surely burst. For family reasons, I moved away from London in 2006 and managed to secure a small, characterful 3-bed house with a mortgage that is now almost paid off. An almost random move that has proven to be the most lucky thing in my life to date.

What has happened since globally is quite astonishing, but what has happened in London has taken my breath away.

Since around 2011 I've returned to HPC and been reading on a semi-regular basis; like many of you I have felt that "something just isn't right" on many levels - with the economy, with the government and particularly with the housing market. From the posts on here, the evidence I see in my daily life and the various articles in the media, my conclusion is that they have effectively tried to "paint over" the issues that caused the 2007/2008 crash, with the net effect of making the (now looming) next crash far worse.

I have two kids (one in school, one approaching school age) and I fear for their future. The only people I see around me who seem to be comfortable are the retired. When I was growing up it was the other way around, those in work were buying new cars, having multiple holidays a year and new kitchens fitted, etc.

Nailed it mate. (excluding any poor pensioners of course)

I think 2016 is going to be a very memorable year.

Congrats for finding something good., hope you are right about this year.

Sorry, your username demands this:

[NiceToSeeYouToSeeYouNice]

Congrats for finding something good., hope you are right about this year.

Sorry, your username demands this:

Oh yes indeed!

[ReluctantMover]

LTL, popping head up for the first time to outline my scenario and seek input on our potentially becoming an "accidental" landlord

I live in Leeds

Lived in current house since 2001. It is a 2 bed semi with garage and was / is "a FTB" house.

Back then it cost £46,250 and it was just me.

I paid the mortgage off completely in 2008

There has been a Mrs ReluctantMover since 2010 (she isn't so reluctant to move, but that is another story). House has been in joint names since 2013.

Next door sold in November 2015 for £267k

The house we have bought (exchanged contracts yesterday, complete Friday) is £400k. We are putting down £200k deposit from our savings and have a mortgage in place for the other £200k.

The question is this: What to do with the old house?

We could sell it. Maybe for as much as the £267k that the one next door sold for back in November

We could rent it out and I am leaning towards this just now. Appreciating that the general view here is that being a landlord is bad, I am expecting to hear the arguments against doing so here.

Similar properties have been advertised for rent at between £650 and £695 recently and they are occupied now. That is only 3% gross on the potential sale proceeds.

But, when I add up everything I spent to buy the house and improve it to its current standard (including mortgage interest), that comes to £99,500. If, by some convoluted maths, I calculate the yield on that figure (the actual cost) and ignore the potential capital gain that might arise from the the sale, it is a more respectable 8.4% gross.

Only one house on the street is currently rented (only 14 houses in total and I am nosy)

If I did rent it, I would aim to use the rental income to reduce the mortgage on the new house more quickly.

In today's climate I think I prefer to hold an asset (the house) rather than have the cash in the bank(s), in case the banks go pop. Also, if I sell the house and there is that much more money sloshing about somewhere, Mrs ReluctantMover and I might be tempted to spend it on frivolous purchases, which wouldn't be ideal.

So, that is where I am with it. No conclusion reached just yet, but I would like to decide what to do with it by the end of March. I am leaning towards renting it out.

Can you present the facts in a way that shows the upside of selling it and / or the downside of renting it please.