B B C Panorama 04.02.08

[grey shark]

yes, but ERIC can have it though.

I am very happy tonight.

I WANT MORE

[A.steve]

I have been saying that the LR stats were being fudged & other stats as well.

I became suspicious about land registry statistics when a property I know was sold in 2006 still hasn't turned up in the land registry data (the freely searchable stuff, anyway.)

I've often wondered if this was in some way indicative of fraud at some level.

[Pearshape]

Im actually looking forward to work tommorrow................

I must not say

1. Told you so

2. Your "ducked"

3. Ive paid my mortgage off

4. BTL is for the long term - very long term

[eric pebble]

Mortgage fraud on a massive scale?

Take a bow, Eric.

Once these prices are reflected in the Land reigstry the drops will be huge - £200,000 to £75,000 FFS

Hey guys -- I missed the bleedin' thing - I threw my tv out about 6 months ago - couldn't take the cr@p anymore -- AND - if you go to the "see it again" thingy that people have posted above - all you see is the last panorama show on drugs in S America!! SO -- DOES ANYONE HAVE THIS UP ON UTUBE??

[azogar]

Tonights Panorama on Youtube:

part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_mzhJh-JlQ

part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnJZWILUSbk

Please note part 3 is still processing (will update link in a while)

Edited February 4, 2008 by prophet-profit

[azogar]

Tonights Panorama on Youtube:

part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_mzhJh-JlQ

part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnJZWILUSbk

Please note part 3 is still processing (will update link in a while)

[dandare500]

Correct me if I am wrong, but £600 a month for a flat in Nottingham? I live in a very pleasant little town in West Sussex. No crime to speak of. I often leave my door unlocked at night. My house is nothing special but there is a tudor building over the road from me and I am a stones throw from a National Trust park where I can go for very enjoyable walks. Three bedrooms - £800 pcm.

Would I really have to shell out 600 notes for a city centre flat in the Midlands? This is a genuine question. It sounds a lot of money to me. And if it is a true market rate, doesn't that make the flat 'worth' more like £65,000?

I don't think we should let the current boom in prices rob us of all reason.

Have you ever been to Nottingham? Most of it is just hype and Rushcliffe is in the top 15 places to live in the country. Not sure where your pleasant town came?

[AC2]

I think, although I don't have access to the BARB stats, that >75% of people didn't watch the princess diana funeral on TV at all, despite the hype and constant pounding drum from the media. There is a sense of divide and counquer that never seems to work on the british public.

I hope you're right. Although the other 75% were probably there ;-)

Back on topic, it's quite amazing how quickly all this appears to be unravelling, finally. Yet even this week I've had friends tell me that prices won't go down because of XYZ spurious reason. It'll be interesting to hear their thoughts after tonight's programme.

>> I became suspicious about land registry statistics when a property I know was sold in 2006 still hasn't turned up in the land registry data (the freely searchable stuff, anyway.)

The same is true of the flat I'm living in, which was bought in 2004. I don't think fraud was involved, though; our landlady is lovely. Probably more ****-up than conspiracy.

[Yoss]

Looks like the going rate for the flats in that Thamesmead block is £170k - £180k although there are still a few listed at over £250k and a 2 bed penthouse at £360k!!!! To live on what looks like a council estate.

Hey 360k is a bargin for London town, just think of the +'ives

1) Good local transport connections(Hoodies with motor scooters thrown in free)

2) Close to local ammenties (Doddgy bank, Brothel, Drug Dealers on your door step)

3) Vibrant night life (every night, if you want it or not, just feet from your window)

4) Riverside View (Prone to flooding)

5) Offstreet parking (In the river and burnt out)

[Mrliberty]

It's like the UK has had some sort of collective hysteria or hallucination, where reality has been dissolved into a wonderland. Like that scene at the end of Perfume, where all the people are so overcome by the murderer's scent that they swoon and start having an orgy in the public square.

Nah, just ZaNuLabour

I discovered this site some time ago, and the comments & analysis (by and large) had me convinced of where we were heading a long time ago. Been out earlier, just about to watch it, but don't expect anything other than complete stupidity.

From Wikipedia (the pertinent bit)

Sheeple is a term of disparagement, a portmanteau created by combining the words "sheep" and "people"; a reference to herd mentality.

The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by authority figures, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them

The most embarrasing thing for me is that I voted for these jokers in '97. I was at the "where's the bullets, where's the gun" stage before Afghanistan and Iraq.

I can't articulate where I am now.

[azogar]

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-eiC1PdNkE

[Not Long Now]

The same is true of the flat I'm living in, which was bought in 2004. I don't think fraud was involved, though; our landlady is lovely. Probably more ****-up than conspiracy.

Completely agree - the government can't keep hold of a few computer disks with personal details on properly without f***ing it up - so I doubt this is any different.

[jonjo]

£1200 pm for a city centre flat in Nottingham? I'm currently renting a very nice 4 bed detached in a rather leafy suburb of the city for £725! No sympathy for idiots who do no research whatsoever - greed pure greed

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

I became suspicious about land registry statistics when a property I know was sold in 2006 still hasn't turned up in the land registry data (the freely searchable stuff, anyway.)

I've often wondered if this was in some way indicative of fraud at some level.

In 2007 lots of posters who I trusted kept saying that property was not selling, not appearing on the LR or they thought the price paid just didn't correlate with the hpi for that area (just purely based on experience).

I felt the same way & there was a lot of anecdotal got posted backing this up, BUT because it was anecdotal & because some people will always believe government stats, this gave us the 'conspiracy theorists' title & gave them 'mocking rights'.

well who's laughing now.

[eric pebble]

Serious Fraud Office investigating developers/solicitors/valuers who may have given Land Registry an inflated price for the places sold to make properties look higher in value than they really are, properties of seemingly £300K now being valued at £200K, one sold at £176K repo'd at £75K, dirty linen all over the place, lenders been stuffed, less likely to lend now, fools - money - parted, musical chairs and music stopped and idiots still dancing. Poster from here who is a financial professional gave astute commentary (although he did not talk about his floor coverings).

Nana's been a nana.

One of the best Panoramas ever broadcast, clearly thought out and worded to explain the alleged corruption and whole caboodle.

edited due to typo caused by alcohol

i.e. Much of what we have FINALLY seen tonight - on a mainstream media outlet [FINALLY] is what I - and many others here - have been saying for YEARS - since 2003!!!

IT IS ALL PRETTY MUCH BASED ON FRAUD --

THE WORLD's GREATEST EVER PYRAMID SELLING SCAM!! I HAVE SAID THIS FOR YEARS AND YEARS....

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-eiC1PdNkE

thanks, your a star.

[teddyboy]

OK nothing to do with HPC but just seen it on BBC - made me pi$$ myself!!!

Workers 'had sex on double time' Senior Aberdeen council staff were on double time while having sex in the workplace, it has been alleged. Former council manager Tom McNeil, 52, is claiming at a tribunal hearing he lost his job after revealing two colleagues were involved sexually.

Witness Pat Fraser said she could hear then director of leisure, Brian Woodcock, and a female employee having sex behind a partition screen.

Anyway, back on topic!!!

Great programme!!! I think JD is starting to get respect from the journalists now, and he has lost the 'DOOM-MONGER' TAG! This is excellent news.... I buzz off telling people that he is OUR spokesperson, when he is on the telly... Its that smug... Well I suppose you were right feeling... damn.. it feels good!!!

SO INTERESTING TIMES AHEAD..... What willl the indices show this month... and how much credability will they get??? Anyone want a bet???? I reckon they will show down a couple of % and the sheeple will say "Nah.. they havent... those figures are all wrong anyway... seen it on Panorama"

Well done JD!!! Came across so well... short interview, but by the far the most POWERFUL one to date.... said enough to convince people that the indices are as corrupt as the VI's... let's hope the sheeple wake up to this.

TB

[Guest mattsta1964]

In 2007 lots of posters who I trusted kept saying that property was not selling, not appearing on the LR or they thought the price paid just didn't correlate with the hpi for that area (just purely based on experience).

I felt the same way & there was a lot of anecdotal got posted backing this up, BUT because it was anecdotal & because some people will always believe government stats, this gave us the 'conspiracy theorists' title & gave them 'mocking rights'.

well who's laughing now.

Hey Grumpy and Eric!

Visit the off topic forum and read my Purple Ribbon thread

I'm trying to organize some dissent!

[r thritis]

And symptomatic of the collective mania is the firefighter. Whichever way I try and thnk about it, I cannot get inside his head to comprehend how he can possibly think its a good idea to borrow 6 times his salary and four times his brothers salary to 'get on the ladder'. It didn't even look like he had a family - I got the impression he was a single guy. Why does he consider it essential that he has to own a house at any cost? I just dont get it.

[Not Long Now]

And symptomatic of the collective mania is the firefighter. Whichever way I try and thnk about it, I cannot get inside his head to comprehend how he can possibly think its a good idea to borrow 6 times his salary and four times his brothers salary to 'get on the ladder'. It didn't even look like he had a family - I got the impression he was a single guy. Why does he consider it essential that he has to own a house at any cost? I just dont get it.

Unfortunately, home ownership is embedded in the national physce that people feel that it is a step forward towards financial security. He would have recieved so much advice from people who all either ill-informed (family / friends) or VI's (his friendly local EA or mortgage broker).

He will get stuffed - but Im sure he's young enough to be able to pick himself up again and not make the same mistake twice.

[richyrich]

I keep being reminded of Warren Buffets phrase that “You don’t know who is swimming naked until the tide goes outâ€.

Looks like a lot of people have been skinny dipping

[ReggiePerrin]

Nice one FP, an excellent interview with a well articulated explaination of the mess that is the so-called housing market.

So if 4 BTL'ers can generate over £1m of bad debt for banks.. how much more debt is out there if the bankers have given out over a 1m BTL loans over the last 11years. By the time this is finished it's going to be a blood bath.

To anyone reading these forum posts who has any sympathy for these people on the program tonight... DON'T! These BLT'ers greed and others like them have stopped a lot of individuals and families from owning their own home, other families will be made homeless because they forced up house prices and mortgage payments to the point where they will or have lost their homes

I say bring back Debtor's prisons for bankrupt BLTer's.

[Smell the Fear]

I keep being reminded of Warren Buffets phrase that “You don’t know who is swimming naked until the tide goes outâ€.

Looks like a lot of people have been skinny dipping

Swimming naked is one thing, but some people have been swimming with sex toys lodged in their asses. That IS embarrassing (don't ask how I know....a man called Bwuno told me about it).

[leftalongtimeago]

Unfortunately, home ownership is embedded in the national physce that people feel that it is a step forward towards financial security. He would have recieved so much advice from people who all either ill-informed (family / friends) or VI's (his friendly local EA or mortgage broker).

He will get stuffed - but Im sure he's young enough to be able to pick himself up again and not make the same mistake twice.

Of course home ownership has only been 'embedded in the national physce' for the last 20 years or so. In fact since Thatcher and Co. started to flog off the council house estates and sell the school playing fields... Now millions of people are having/going to have their lives blighted trying to pursue the 'dream' of property ownership, when perhaps two generations ago they would happily have been born, raised, lived and died in public housing...

[workingholiday]

Some silly woman earning £50,000 managed to borrow £1.3m to buy 4 houses in Derby that she had never seen as a buy-to-let investment. They were only worth half what she paid and unletable in the state she bought them. She is facing bankruptcy. Ner ner ner-ner ner!

That was brilliant - I mean where do they find these people?