the end is a bit nigher Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Been looking for work this week - there are an enormous number of IT jobs out there - the downside (as has been said elsewhere) is that pay isn't what it once was - however, there are enough jobs to confirm my belief that the crash will come from IR rises as a result of a relatively strong economy and NOT because of a recession, which has previously lagged a crash this is what has happend this time in the U.S.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhpc Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I was expecting the entire content of your post to be '...in Bangalore' I heard that my old job has just been outsourced over there - total craziness - the system I worked on required constant minor tweaks and adjustments - people from accounts would come to my desk and say that xx company has changed yy variable, can you just alter the code so it does zz instead. Which would be a two minute job, change a line of code then recompile it. Now it's outsourced this kind of thing could take days before the change is implemented. I did hear that they had a nightmare getting in a replacement for me, they ended up employing someone that didn't even know the language the system was coded in - they probably just wanted to get shot of it all. Ahem yeah, rant over. For the last few years I've been happy enough using my IT skills to develop my own websites, rather than working in an office and being treated like dirt. Although there's no 'instant riches' doing things this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipton Crash Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Been looking for work this week - there are an enormous number of IT jobs out there - the downside (as has been said elsewhere) is that pay isn't what it once was - however, there are enough jobs to confirm my belief that the crash will come from IR rises as a result of a relatively strong economy and NOT because of a recession, which has previously lagged a crash this is what has happend this time in the U.S.! Agreed - I work in Harrogate for a well known national cash machine network and we are really struggling to find the right IT staff at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick.. Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Agreed - I work in Harrogate for a well known national cash machine network and we are really struggling to find the right IT staff at the moment! I started looking a few months ago, but changed my mind and decided to stay where I am During the week I was registered, the phone didn't stop ringing, literally dozens of calls of decent sounding jobs all paying market rate or better IT market appears very strong to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLegallyBlonde Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Agreed - I work in Harrogate for a well known national cash machine network and we are really struggling to find the right IT staff at the moment! I work for a well known ERP company and we have 55 SAP contract staff twiddling their thumbs at the moment. European companies have moved their development abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry AKA Pod Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Agreed - I work in Harrogate for a well known national cash machine network and we are really struggling to find the right IT staff at the moment! In what areas of IT are you short on staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick.. Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I work for a well known ERP company and we have 55 SAP contract staff twiddling their thumbs at the moment. European companies have moved their development abroad. Thats 'cos people are wising up to SAP and putting it in without modification and the need for a million SAP monkeys at a million typewriters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewissheridan Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Strong for particular areas or skills ? Personally IT is boring the hell out of me, time for a career change... any ideas ? Property development? ! ? ... just kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry AKA Pod Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Strong for particular areas or skills ? Personally IT is boring the hell out of me, time for a career change... any ideas ? Property development? ! ? ... just kidding Let us know what you move into. It bores the hell out of me too so I need some inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipton Crash Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 In what areas of IT are you short on staff? Well, I am not sure about the rest of the company but this was certainly the case for software testing - the only people interested were apparently asking for 50K+ which is *way* above market rate for round these parts!! They are also on about giving us all a good pay-rise probably because they are scared of losing any of us right now! (or indicative of general wage inflation? not sure). Either way things are looking quite rosey at the moment! As further evidence, I recently had a phone call from the recruitment agency that got me this job asking if I was happy/whether I was thinking about moving on in the near future (the implication being that there was plenty of work out there if I want it!). Finally, from speaking to the contractors here, one of the banks based in Copley/Halifax is desparate for staff right now (not sure if that is just testing or in general). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Let us know what you move into. It bores the hell out of me too so I need some inspiration. Seconded - I have run my own company for four years, sold it to a colleague, and now looking around. I have recruitment agencies getting in touch, but I want public sector not private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Well, I am not sure about the rest of the company but this was certainly the case for software testing - the only people interested were apparently asking for 50K+ which is *way* above market rate for round these parts!! They are also on about giving us all a good pay-rise probably because they are scared of losing any of us right now! (or indicative of general wage inflation? not sure). Either way things are looking quite rosey at the moment! As further evidence, I recently had a phone call from the recruitment agency that got me this job asking if I was happy/whether I was thinking about moving on in the near future (the implication being that there was plenty of work out there if I want it!). Finally, from speaking to the contractors here, one of the banks based in Copley/Halifax is desparate for staff right now (not sure if that is just testing or in general). That does sound quite high. Do you know if it was for permanent positions or contracts? I'm in software engineering/testing myself and I'd be quite happy with a salary like that in London where I work, let alone up north Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipton Crash Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 That does sound quite high. Do you know if it was for permanent positions or contracts? I'm in software engineering/testing myself and I'd be quite happy with a salary like that in London where I work, let alone up north Well these were permanent positions but, as I say, 50 grand was much *too* high for our company and as far as I know the vacancies went unfilled - I think we are going to struggle through for the moment and/or train some staff up internally. the testing we do is not rocket science really. to be honest! All of this is just from speaking to those doing the recruiting - have not been actively involved in the process myself. Most of the contractors in our team are on around 10 grand a month, which is unfortumately many times more than what I get paid! I guess that's the price you pay for being a permie :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Some of the jobs in yesterday's email update: 40 to 50k doesn't seem at all unusual for the North West: Job Title: DEVELOPERS ..Spin yourself a New WEB career Location: Manchester Type: Permanent Salary: £35k to £40k pa + Pension, To view the full job description please click the link below: http://www.jobsite.co.uk/jbe/vacancy/ax8jk...70011/920436662 Job Title: Score Here! Senior C#.NET / SQL Developer - Gtr Manchester £40K Location: Manchester Type: Permanent Salary: £40,000 To view the full job description please click the link below: http://www.jobsite.co.uk/jbe/vacancy/ax8jk...70011/920435998 Job Title: Data Architect / Technology Architect Location: Chester Type: Permanent Salary: £40k to £45k pa To view the full job description please click the link below: http://www.jobsite.co.uk/jbe/vacancy/ax8jk...70011/920280546 Job Title: Development Manager Location: Chester Type: Permanent Salary: £55k pa To view the full job description please click the link below: http://www.jobsite.co.uk/jbe/vacancy/ax8jk...70011/920280469 I do enjoy the *work* but not the *job* In large companies I find you become labelled and compartmentalised, and it's boring and politicised (e.g. the time I spent at Tesco.com), in small companies I get to see and be involved with the whole life cycle, but I find it's more stressed out (though overall I'd pick the small company every time). I've seen ads with the selling point "fast paced": I thought IT is only fast paced when there aren't enough people to do the work; web development is not meant to be "fast paced". It's been 4 years since I've had to look for a job and the salaries I see in London are overall a bit less than or the same as 4 years ago, the salaries in Manchester seem very much higher than 4 years ago. Thanks to the explosion of BTL flats there, it's dirt cheap to rent for a short period too. I was looking for a 6 or max 12 month contract for when my current one ends, haven't got very far yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewissheridan Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Seconded - I have run my own company for four years, sold it to a colleague, and now looking around. I have recruitment agencies getting in touch, but I want public sector not private. Agree with smaller companies, you get more involved and have a direct impact on the bottomline, but it is a lot more stressful than it needs to be. Half the reason the customers don't understand the technology nor appreciate what it entails to get working right for their business. Out of interest, why did you give up the company, was it not turning over as much as you wanted ? or was it a one-man-band company and too stressful. Reason i ask is that i've been toying with the idea of entering the market and going for customers myself in the small business sector. Any thoughts or comments based on experience would be greatly appreciated. Just a back burner idea at the moment, too much risk as well in this delicate trying to find somewhere to buy drama that we're all caught up in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith.G Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I was expecting the entire content of your post to be '...in Bangalore' I heard that my old job has just been outsourced over there - total craziness - the system I worked on required constant minor tweaks and adjustments - people from accounts would come to my desk and say that xx company has changed yy variable, can you just alter the code so it does zz instead. Which would be a two minute job, change a line of code then recompile it. Now it's outsourced this kind of thing could take days before the change is implemented. I did hear that they had a nightmare getting in a replacement for me, they ended up employing someone that didn't even know the language the system was coded in - they probably just wanted to get shot of it all. Ahem yeah, rant over. For the last few years I've been happy enough using my IT skills to develop my own websites, rather than working in an office and being treated like dirt. Although there's no 'instant riches' doing things this way. A previous role of mine was similarly outsourced - Years ago with stronger Unions it would have been unlikely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 A previous role of mine was similarly outsourced - Years ago with stronger Unions it would have been unlikely... Those days are gone forever and when in the cheap labour countries the workers demand better pay and conditions their rich employers supported by their respective governments will come down on them like a ton of bricks. The Global Economy does not deal in fairness to the masses. Just watch China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith.G Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Those days are gone forever and when in the cheap labour countries the workers demand better pay and conditions their rich employers supported by their respective governments will come down on them like a ton of bricks. The Global Economy does not deal in fairness to the masses. Just watch China. Quite possibly but our Gov't or the EU could step in to prevent such outsourcing or change the rules if it's a threat to our economy Apparently certain US states have done this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpw Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 IT is the perfect service to outsource. First it doesn't take a braniac, most people fell for the notion that someone capable of programming was smart when of course we all know the average programmer was a failed doctor or engineer. Second, is that relatively little experience is required to be a competent programmer. A 25 year old C++ programmer can act pretty autonomously which says a lot. Would you trust a 25 year old engineer to manage a billion dollar project - the answer is no. Third is that there are millions of bright young Indian and Chinese graduates out there with the skills to do what someone in the west wants 60k for. They get paid a tenth that and can do the job as effectively Of course none of this is true of a surgeon or an engineering consultant. So bad luck IT the table turned and the whizkids were found to have no clothes!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Shower Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 (edited) Strong for particular areas or skills ? Personally IT is boring the hell out of me, time for a career change... any ideas ? Property development? ! ? ... just kidding I moved into management and find the change suits me much better. Same problem though, I got to the stage where I wasn't getting much out of writing code anymore. Quite possibly but our Gov't or the EU could step in to prevent such outsourcing or change the rules if it's a threat to our economyApparently certain US states have done this Possibly. I suspect it would lead to less investment from companies in the long run though. Excessive government interefence isn't a good thing and is probably a leading cause of outsourcing at the momet. Edited September 16, 2006 by Golden Shower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 IT is the perfect service to outsource. First it doesn't take a braniac, most people fell for the notion that someone capable of programming was smart when of course we all know the average programmer was a failed doctor or engineer. Second, is that relatively little experience is required to be a competent programmer. A 25 year old C++ programmer can act pretty autonomously which says a lot. Would you trust a 25 year old engineer to manage a billion dollar project - the answer is no. Third is that there are millions of bright young Indian and Chinese graduates out there with the skills to do what someone in the west wants 60k for. They get paid a tenth that and can do the job as effectively Of course none of this is true of a surgeon or an engineering consultant. So bad luck IT the table turned and the whizkids were found to have no clothes!!! Have you been involved in an IT outsourcing project? We're struggling to find decent developers with 2 years experience, paying quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLegallyBlonde Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Have you been involved in an IT outsourcing project? We're struggling to find decent developers with 2 years experience, paying quite well. PM me I'll find you some developers - used to be in IT recruitment and still have a lot contacts - my fee is very reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immigrant Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Strong for particular areas or skills ? Personally IT is boring the hell out of me, time for a career change... any ideas ? Property development? ! ? ... just kidding I have just got out of IT after 25 years and my only regret is that I didn't to it years ago. If you can afford it, take the plunge. If you can't (kids, mortgage etc) start planning your long-term escape route e.g. start studying again part-time or whatever. I have moved over into teaching and although it is a lot more intense, I am enjoying it. And then there are the holidays... One of the main benefits is my new colleagues, who are much nicer than the competitive, arrogant, know-it-all tw@ts who are so common in IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 (edited) Let us know what you move into. It bores the hell out of me too so I need some inspiration. Surely IT is as wide an area as, say, medicine, or engineering? There must be a huge variety of jobs and levels of seniority. My 2 boys are both analysts/ developers, and they love their work. But they're young, and I can't imagine them wanting to do the same work forever. But then they could become project managers, heads of departments, IT directors etc. etc. I had a variety of jobs in engineering - I'm now a consultant, involved in great projects all around the world. Surely the same opportunities are there in IT. BTW, I agree there are no end of job opportunities in London, at least. Third is that there are millions of bright young Indian and Chinese graduates out there with the skills to do what someone in the west wants 60k for. They get paid a tenth that and can do the job as effectively I read yesterday that India is expected to have a massive shortage of IT professionals by 2010 Edited September 16, 2006 by Casual Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 I had a variety of jobs in engineering - I'm now a consultant, involved in great projects all around the world. Surely the same opportunities are there in IT. So how come you spend 24/7 on this board then? (Attemping to) pour water over the bear arguments, because something inside you desperately wants this crazy market to stay alive You've suffered in the 70's (even with the help of rampant inflation), so we all must? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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