The state pension is doomed – and so too are the retirement dreams of millions

[captainb]

3 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

GenX is apparently doomed:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/news/generation-x-doomed-to-pension-poverty/

 

 

 

There's that and the self employed also.

Assume (perhaps wrongly) that all these gig employees have no pension provisions?

[Insane]

14 minutes ago, poohbear said:

And yet you see those that are working are having fewer children as on top of massive mortgages and massive childcare fees, they just can’t afford it.

Yes 

This is the reason the birth rate has dropped people who pay their own way cannot afford the children. My Nice who works and her husband (no benefits not even child allowance) are about to have number 3, this is very unusual and many people around them are astounded as many just have 1 or make number 2 the absolute maximum. 

People are also having their children much later in life. 

[kzb]

1 hour ago, Insane said:

The woman from the Ukraine who has come here as a refugee and is now getting £690 a month in Tax Credits is NOT THE ONLY ONE. How many other people are there who have arrived in the UK are of state pension age and are now getting pension credits? Plus are able to use our NHS and other services?

I have heard what they call Chain-Immigration is huge, people arrive get established and are then allowed to bring other members of their family's to the UK who if old will get the same benefits as someone born here , worked here and paid in for 50 years. 

Yet there is quite a large cohort on here who blame the lack of money on the first half of the Boomer Generation the half that has reached state pension age for taking everything. Even though they have paid in for 50 years and are still paying in now. People need to look at where the money is being spent and who is getting it. They are blaming the wrong people. 

 

Absolutely.  They are not allowed to mention immigration so they find some other group to blame for their troubles.

[kzb]

4 hours ago, scottbeard said:

Agree 100% from my experi3nce at work

Thank you, I knew I was right.  So now we have to wonder why this story is presented as it is, and why this lot on here fall for it hook line and sinker.

[kzb]

4 hours ago, bomberbrown said:

Regarding the octogenarian mother OP, I read it that she was a high rate tax payer whilst working so that’s why her DB (final salary) pension is so high/comfortable.  I could be wrong?

For her to be a high rate tax paying pension, she would have had to have had a final salary of around £100k about thirty years ago.  

No, as others have said, it says she is a higher rate tax payer as a pensioner.

Your analysis of what she needed to have earned to get such a pension is in the correct ball park though.  Which tells us this story is very unlikely.  Women in public sector jobs simply did not get paid that much.  Unless she was a government minister or something.

[kzb]

21 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Anyone thinking they can live a comfy retirement on the state pension is deluding themselves.

You are potentially worse off than on pension credit which someone who has paid nothing in could qualify for - as they at least get free tv licenses, free council tax and free eye/dental checks etc etc.

Yes, there is definitely a danger with this pension auto-enrolment that low paid workers end up with a private pension that is just enough to take them over the pension credit threshold.  They then lose out on the freebies you mention and end up worse off. 

In fact I suspect this could be the reason they brought it in.

[Si1]

22 minutes ago, kzb said:

Absolutely.  They are not allowed to mention immigration so they find some other group to blame for their troubles.

People fleeing war are not immigrants

On that score even Russians fleeing conscription might be allowed in as it is a form of persecution, I dunno

12 minutes ago, kzb said:

Yes, there is definitely a danger with this pension auto-enrolment that low paid workers end up with a private pension that is just enough to take them over the pension credit threshold.  They then lose out on the freebies you mention and end up worse off. 

In fact I suspect this could be the reason they brought it in.

Good point. The kind of thing the sheeple would do too, and then get in a strop (nobody warned us!) closer to the time pleading ignorance.

[Insane]

42 minutes ago, Si1 said:

People fleeing war are not immigrants

Correct but just like the other older immigrants who have arrived and paid nothing in they will be able to draw out. 

The lady fleeing war is not claiming anything under some special system different to someone who came over at 60 from South Asian to live with her son's family and was then was able to claim pension credits. She is using the same system. 

We are never given the figures as to how much this costs. Yet they want to increase the state retirement age and you blame the boomer who has paid all their taxes for 50+ years. It is not the boomers who have taken the money it is those who have never paid in. 

[winkie]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

Yes, there is definitely a danger with this pension auto-enrolment that low paid workers end up with a private pension that is just enough to take them over the pension credit threshold.  They then lose out on the freebies you mention and end up worse off. 

In fact I suspect this could be the reason they brought it in.

Fair point..... wouldn't surprise me if that was the case for some......but the state would still have to pay their rent....a state pension and £40 a month into auto enrolment wouldn't pay that.

[HousePriceTooHigh]

The next scam will be forcing DC pensions to be part invested in "risky" start ups and stocks

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/15/jeremy-hunt-would-make-a-terrible-fund-manager/

 

 

[Si1]

16 minutes ago, Insane said:

Correct but just like the other older immigrants who have arrived and paid nothing in they will be able to draw out. 

The lady fleeing war is not claiming anything under some special system different to someone who came over at 60 from South Asian to live with her son's family and was then was able to claim pension credits. She is using the same system. 

We are never given the figures as to how much this costs. Yet they want to increase the state retirement age and you blame the boomer who has paid all their taxes for 50+ years. It is not the boomers who have taken the money it is those who have never paid in. 

That's desperate coping, there are way more boomers.

[Si1]

1 minute ago, HousePriceTooHigh said:

The next scam will be forcing DC pensions to be part invested in "risky" start ups and stocks

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/15/jeremy-hunt-would-make-a-terrible-fund-manager/

 

 

That does sound effing stupid.

[Insane]

8 minutes ago, Si1 said:

That's desperate coping, there are way more boomers.

So way more boomers that have paid in for 50+ years. 

Have you got the figures for how much (£) the average boomer paid and is still paying in taking into account all the raft of taxes they pay?

Have you got the figures for how many people have walked in the door paid nothing and how much (£) they cost? 

[bomberbrown]

Quick fag packet calculation for pension credit is £10k a year for a single retiree (on top of weekly state pension) What would that cost as an annuity?

if I was just starting out in work now, I would definitely be opting out of private pension.  What’s the point?

[captainb]

5 minutes ago, bomberbrown said:

Quick fag packet calculation for pension credit is £10k a year for a single retiree (on top of weekly state pension) What would that cost as an annuity?

if I was just starting out in work now, I would definitely be opting out of private pension.  What’s the point?

Nah state pension counts as income for it, so its not on top of. Pension credit takes your minimum income (inclusive of any state pension) upto that figure.

[bomberbrown]

1 minute ago, captainb said:

Nah state pension counts as income for it, so its not on top of. Pension credit takes your minimum income (inclusive of any state pension) upto that figure.

Nope.  Definitely excluding state pension.  It’s £359.22 a week including state pension.  I used this calculator 

https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

 

[bomberbrown]

6 minutes ago, bomberbrown said:

Nope.  Definitely excluding state pension.  It’s £359.22 a week including state pension.  I used this calculator 

https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

 

Actually, scrap that, it gets better.  If I up my rent to £1,600 a month, I would qualify for almost £600 a week (including state pension)  This is JUST the housing benefit portion

Housing Benefit

£ 369.23 per week

How to claim

Your claim for Guarantee Pension Credit will mean you get maximum help with your housing costs.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by bomberbrown

[captainb]

9 minutes ago, bomberbrown said:

Nope.  Definitely excluding state pension.  It’s £359.22 a week including state pension.  I used this calculator 

https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

 

I'd stop using that calculator

https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit/eligibility

 

Your income

When you apply for Pension Credit your income is calculated. If you have a partner, your income is calculated together.

 

Pension Credit tops up:

 

your weekly income to £201.05 if you’re single

your joint weekly income to £306.85 if you have a partner

If your income is higher, you might still be eligible for Pension Credit if you have a disability, you care for someone, you have savings or you have housing costs.

 

What counts as income

Your income includes:

 

State Pension

 

[kzb]

1 hour ago, bomberbrown said:

Actually, scrap that, it gets better.  If I up my rent to £1,600 a month, I would qualify for almost £600 a week (including state pension)  This is JUST the housing benefit portion

Housing Benefit

£ 369.23 per week

How to claim

Your claim for Guarantee Pension Credit will mean you get maximum help with your housing costs.

 

Well if you are correct about this (and there is considerable doubt about that), who are the main beneficiaries?

Claimants in London and the SE that's who.  London is only minority white British, and a lot of retirees head out as well.  So the proportion of white British pensioners in London is likely very small compared to the incomer population.

[kzb]

2 hours ago, Si1 said:

That's desperate coping, there are way more boomers.

Are there?  How do you know?  We've had over 10 million incomers total in recent years.

[kzb]

3 hours ago, Si1 said:

People fleeing war are not immigrants

On that score even Russians fleeing conscription might be allowed in as it is a form of persecution, I dunno

It doesn't matter what we call them, they are still increasing demand for housing, services and state benefits.  We've taken in many thousands of Ukrainians and also Hong Kongers.  Then a great many so-called immigrants are students.

So I know the headline figure of 504,000 is exaggerated by these factors.  It doesn't matter though because there are that many people to house and look after.

[kzb]

4 hours ago, captainb said:

There's that and the self employed also.

Assume (perhaps wrongly) that all these gig employees have no pension provisions?

If you earn more than a certain (small) amount you are auto-enrolled in the Smart pension.  It's the law.  You have to opt out if you don't want to be in it.

Employers have a legal duty to assess all their employees aged 16-74, to see if they meet the criteria to be automatically enrolled a workplace pension scheme. To be eligible for auto enrolment you must:

• be between 22 and State Pension age

• earn more than £10,000 a year (£833 a month or £192 a week) before tax

• ordinarily work in the UK

Your employer has three months from the date their duties to automatically enrol workers starts, or from when you start working for them (whichever comes later) to assess and enrol you if you qualify. 

Anyone who is eligible must be enrolled in a pension scheme by law.

https://support.autoenrolment.co.uk/en/articles/3008146-why-was-i-automatically-enrolled-into-a-workplace-pension?_ga=2.73957074.1351591178.1682180184-22343927.1682180184

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by kzb

[Si1]

3 hours ago, Insane said:

So way more boomers that have paid in for 50+ years. 

Have you got the figures for how much (£) the average boomer paid and is still paying in taking into account all the raft of taxes they pay?

The best data (with difficult predictions, clearly, and before the era of triple lock pension was considered) available that I am aware of that I collated into a post last year:

 

 

 

 

 

_------------------------------------

"I'll reproduce the main stats, it's interesting - the earliest cohorts were the first to receive any welfare state benefits so will have taken out without having previously paid in
 

     
 

    Boomers in bold
 

     
 

     
 

    (Extracted from Hills 2004, table 8.2)
 

     
 

     
 

    Born 1901–06
 

    122% - Receipts as % of tax
 

          
    1906–11
 

    116%
 

          
    1911–16
 

    118%
 

          
    1916–21
 

    115%
 

          
    1921–26
 

    104%
 

          
    1926–31
 

    102%
 

          
    1931–36
 

    101%
 

       
    1936–41
 

    107%
 

          
    1941–46
 

    110%
 

          
    1946–51
 

    110%
 

          
    1951–56
 

    116%
 

          
    1956–61
 

    118%
 

          
    1961–66
 

    108%
 

          
    1966–71
 

    102%
 

          
    1971–76
 

    95%
 
https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/245276-the-generational-divide/&do=findComment&comment=1103922117

3 hours ago, Insane said:

Have you got the figures for how many people have walked in the door paid nothing and how much (£) they cost? 

No I don't but I'll keep an eye out if you do too 😉

[Chunketh]

On 21/04/2023 at 16:40, TheCountOfNowhere said:

The state pension ?

I think they mean, ALL PENSIONS.

It's another pyramid scam.

Look what happened a few months ago.

Owning thousands of legit companies is a pyramid scheme? 

[scottbeard]

On 21/04/2023 at 16:40, TheCountOfNowhere said:

The state pension ?

I think they mean, ALL PENSIONS.

It's another pyramid scam.

Look what happened a few months ago.

If you think the LDI crisis showed that pensions are a pyramid scheme you clearly don’t understand LDI, pensions or pyramid schemes.