The state pension is doomed – and so too are the retirement dreams of millions

[Insane]

2 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

That includes payment for all functions of Government.

 So it is no different for someone who is 27 or 67 then is it. The government is spending more now than ever. 

3 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I can assure you I have paid several times that in tax the last 26 years.

So have many people, while others have paid next to nothing in the last 26 years but still receive. 

4 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Only paying £1m in over 67 years is nowhere near close, even allowing for indexing.

So it is about how much people earn not what age they are. 

[MattW]

I should qualify for the state pension in 22 years time. If the Government abolishes it by then, can I get a refund for all of the National Insurance or income tax I paid in for the last 2-3 decades? 

Edited April 30, 2023 by MattW
added some more words

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

2 hours ago, Insane said:

 So it is no different for someone who is 27 or 67 then is it. The government is spending more now than ever. 

So have many people, while others have paid next to nothing in the last 26 years but still receive. 

So it is about how much people earn not what age they are. 

 

Just saying there should be something in proportion to what has been contributed. The boomers got off lightly supporting a lower cost more impoverished older generation and then didn't put enough aside to cover their obvious cost later on. This was predicted in the 1980s and probably before.

[Si1]

39 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

Just saying there should be something in proportion to what has been contributed. The boomers got off lightly supporting a lower cost more impoverished older generation and then didn't put enough aside to cover their obvious cost later on. This was predicted in the 1980s and probably before.

This

[Insane]

37 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Just saying there should be something in proportion to what has been contributed. The boomers got off lightly supporting a lower cost more impoverished older generation

How can the boomers have got off lightly as almost half of them are still working and paying in (the same taxes) like any other generation?

How many times do people need this explained to them? But then you do suffer with Boomerisim. 

The First female boomer would have retired in 2005 and the first man in 2010 the first half have then followed year by year so would have been working and paying the tax rises again like any other generation. 

42 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

and then didn't put enough aside to cover their obvious cost later on. 

Who did not put enough aside? The Torys raided the pension schemes by taxing the surpluses, so the companies took payment holidays. Then Gordon Brown did the mother of all raids to pay for Tax Credits. From what I am hearing via tit bits listening to politicians at the moment who ever forms the next government is going to be raiding the pension schemes again. I think Labour are more likely to do this than the Torys but we  will wait and see. 

 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

1 hour ago, MattW said:

I should qualify for the state pension in 22 years time. If the Government abolishes it by then, can I get a refund for all of the National Insurance or income tax I paid in for the last 2-3 decades? 

 

That is kind of my point. Having the triple lock now actually endangers the pension for later generations as it will make the books  worse in 22 years.

[Si1]

11 minutes ago, Insane said:

How can the boomers have got off lightly as almost half of them are still working and paying in (the same taxes) like any other generation?

How many times do people need this explained to them? But then you do suffer with Boomerisim. 

The First female boomer would have retired in 2005 and the first man in 2010 the first half have then followed year by year so would have been working and paying the tax rises again like any other generation.

The govts own ons released the statistics showing how much tax people had paid by generation. You can't just wave your hands around a bit and pretend the figures are different.

11 minutes ago, Insane said:

Who did not put enough aside? The Torys raided the pension schemes by taxing the surpluses, so the companies took payment holidays.

What an irrelevant load of gumph. Private pensions did get a bit of a trashing equally across all generations. But the post war baby boom generations simply didn't contribute enough to fund their future state pension entitlements. These are two different things. Laughable.

11 minutes ago, Insane said:

Then Gordon Brown did the mother of all raids to pay for Tax Credits. From what I am hearing via tit bits listening to politicians at the moment who ever forms the next government is going to be raiding the pension schemes again. I think Labour are more likely to do this than the Torys but we  will wait and see. 

 

State pensions are not the same as private. Repeat it until you're blue in the face.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Si1

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

8 minutes ago, Si1 said:

The govts own ons released the statistics showing how much tax people had paid by generation. You can't just wave your hands around a bit and pretend the figures are different.

What an irrelevant load of gumph. Private pensions did get a bit of a trashing equally across all generations. But the post war baby boom generations simply didn't contribute enough to fund their future state pension entitlements. These are two different things. Laughable.

State pensions are not the same as private. Repeat it until you're blue in the face.

Agree, this report indicates the boomers have taken 20% more than they have put in:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/baby-boomers-welfare-support-generation-x-millennials-cuts-pensions-new-wealth-tax-a8194726.html

[Insane]

6 minutes ago, Si1 said:

The govts own ons released the statistics showing how much tax people had paid by generation. You can't just wave your hands around a bit and pretend the figures are different.

Waving nothing but please explain to me how someone who is still working is paying under a different system to anyone else still working? 

7 minutes ago, Si1 said:

What an irrelevant load of gumph. Private pensions did get a bit of a trashing equally across all generations. But the post war baby boom generations simply didn't contribute enough to fund their future state pension entitlements. These are two different things. Laughable.

But they are still paying now and as I have said above they are not paying under a different system to anyone else still working. It is laughable that you cannot understand that simple fact. What were you saying about gumph? 

10 minutes ago, Si1 said:

State pensions are not the same as private. Repeat it until you're blue in the face.

You need to read the words put in front of you before replying to posts telling others to repeat things. 

To save you scrolling back as it might be a bit difficult I was answering this statement below.

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

and then didn't put enough aside to cover their obvious cost later on. 

He was not referring to state or private pensions just pensions. 

[Si1]

Just now, Insane said:

Waving nothing but please explain to me how someone who is still working is paying under a different system to anyone else still working? 

But they are still paying now and as I have said above they are not paying under a different system to anyone else still working. It is laughable that you cannot understand that simple fact. What were you saying about gumph? 

You need to read the words put in front of you before replying to posts telling others to repeat things. 

To save you scrolling back as it might be a bit difficult I was answering this statement below.

He was not referring to state or private pensions just pensions. 

I actually can't respond to you because you're spouting disingenuous misinterpretation of just about everything. It's hard to argue with random meaningless gobsh1te. It's like you're drunk. Whatever Boomer.

[Insane]

5 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/baby-boomers-welfare-support-generation-x-millennials-cuts-pensions-new-wealth-tax-a8194726.html

Oh wow it's the same as the other report under a different name you know the one Si1 posted with hardly any figures. 

Take a proper read it is riddled with leaving out information, figures and facts. 

Why do you take any notice of anything printed in the independent? Independent = toilet paper. 

By the way does everything change in 10 years time when the first Greedy Gen X come to their turn. Are they stopping the triple lock in 2033? Are Gen X going to decline their state pensions? 

Please tell me how different it is going to be for the final Boomer born in 1965 to the first Gen X in 1966? 

[Insane]

Just now, Si1 said:

I actually can't respond to you because you're spouting disingenuous misinterpretation of just about everything. It's hard to argue with random meaningless gobsh1te. 

No you know I am right that is why.

1 minute ago, Si1 said:

It's like you're drunk.

No it is like you are , how many times have you been told almost half the boomers are still working and paying in under the same system as everyone else and you still cannot understand it? Why is it so hard for you to admit that? 

2 minutes ago, Si1 said:

Whatever Boomer.

Not sure about drunk but now you repeat this stupid few words like a  spoilt child stamping his feet. 

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

I actually can't respond to you because you're spouting disingenuous misinterpretation of just about everything. It's hard to argue with random meaningless gobsh1te. It's like you're drunk. Whatever Boomer.

Wise

[Insane]

29 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Wise

🤣

[kzb]

2 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Agree, this report indicates the boomers have taken 20% more than they have put in:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/baby-boomers-welfare-support-generation-x-millennials-cuts-pensions-new-wealth-tax-a8194726.html

I don't think it does.  It says public spending on services will have to increase by 7% of GDP by 2066.  By then the boomer generation will be almost extinct.

It also says the answer to it is wealth tax, which in practice can only be an inheritance tax.  So it is essentially you lot who will have to pay it when you inherit your parents' houses.

Anyhow who knows what will happen by 2066.  Surely we should be living a life of luxury working 10 hours a week in our super abundant super power world.

[kzb]

If the situation is this bad here in the UK, what are they going to do in Europe?

We have just about the worst pension in the OECD, so we don't have as far to fall.

The French are basically on a final salary pension scheme which will pay them 75% of salary in retirement, and they live longer than us too.

So just imagine the catastrophe there.