They won't let it happen.

[Confusion of VIs]

6 minutes ago, satsuma said:

Its all a load of tripe, electric cars have a bigger carbon footprint to produce than ICE cars.  They then use power produced from fossil fuels.  Load of nonsense, end goal to get people to buy overpriced crap.   

Complete rubbish that's been repeatedly debunked but thanks to the ICE lobbyists is being continually recirculated.

The extra cost of producing an EV is recovered in about 30k miles and after that you are contributing around 10% of the Carbon an equivalent ICE would.  Also those figures are still improving rapidly and don't take account of the much longer service life of EVs. 

[Confusion of VIs]

7 hours ago, mattyboy1973 said:

Same in my place, a crappy 60's bungalow. Some of the real "eco" houses now don't need heating at all, even in the UK. I'm not sure I'd want to go that far (not sure how living in a house with no ventilation would actually feel), but I'd like to have a place that requires very little heating by the time I retire. Realistically, that means a new build (self build, if I could find the plot). Bringing existing stock to anything near new build eco levels is prohibitively expensive, and ultimately still not as good.

Done properly a well insulated house will have more ventilation than the average house as it will have a heat recovery system that recovers +80% of the heat from air leaving the house so you can double the ventilation and still half the heat loss. The idea that eco houses are stuffy comes from misguided attempts at making old houses more efficient by blocking up all the air gaps and not installing a ventilation system (in old houses the gaps are the ventilation system).  

I bought and completely renovated a house back in 2013. With hindsight I should have knocked it down and rebuilt it but at the time I didn't realise just how much work it would take to bring a 1920 house into the 21st century.  You are correct that you cannot fully reach modern standards (even when going back to a shell) but you can do much better the low standards required of today's UK spec newbuilds.  

 

[satsuma]

9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Complete rubbish that's been repeatedly debunked but thanks to the ICE lobbyists is being continually recirculated.

The extra cost of producing an EV is recovered in about 30k miles and after that you are contributing around 10% of the Carbon an equivalent ICE would.  Also those figures are still improving rapidly and don't take account of the much longer service life of EVs. 

These cars are an expensive accessory for the vain and are worse than any ICE car.  Once you add it all up they are not the solution they appear to be.  

 

[Riedquat]

36 minutes ago, satsuma said:

These cars are an expensive accessory for the vain and are worse than any ICE car.  Once you add it all up they are not the solution they appear to be.  

 

A bit worse in manufacturing maybe, in use it'll depend on how the electricity's generated, which varies quite a lot from country to country.

It does seem very wasteful to chuck out a load of old cars, especially since these days the bodywork rust problems that usually ended them are a thing of the past - it usually seems to be the engines going. So it's a pity that electric conversions aren't really all that practical. I've heard of a few but they seemed to be mostly quite old vehicles. Partially for the novelty I suppose, but they're probably considerably easier to convert, and had pretty low ranges.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Riedquat

[satsuma]

9 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

A bit worse in manufacturing maybe, in use it'll depend on how the electricity's generated, which varies quite a lot from country to country.

It does seem very wasteful to chuck out a load of old cars, especially since these days the bodywork rust problems that usually ended them are a thing of the past - it usually seems to be the engines going. So it's a pity that electric conversions aren't really all that practical. I've heard of a few but they seemed to be mostly quite old vehicles. Partially for the novelty I suppose, but they're probably considerably easier to convert, and had pretty low ranges.

I think a large part of the push for electric cars is to create new jobs, its somewhat of a failure of imagination in that regard.  Personally its not for me, I see people with them walking from the charging point to home, seems like a lit of faffing about.  10hours to charge from home in some cases pushes people to leave the car at the charging point where the vandals have their wicked way.   

[Riedquat]

8 minutes ago, satsuma said:

I think a large part of the push for electric cars is to create new jobs, its somewhat of a failure of imagination in that regard.  Personally its not for me, I see people with them walking from the charging point to home, seems like a lit of faffing about.  10hours to charge from home in some cases pushes people to leave the car at the charging point where the vandals have their wicked way.   

Electric cars are one of those rare things, changes that don't piss me off. I'm in no hurry to get one but I do regard them as an overall net positive. Whilst I roll my eyes at a lot of the "advantages" pushed by their most vocal supporters (since I am entirely happy driving an ICE car, so any improvement on the practical side is trivial at best) there are wider advantages. What annoys me about them are the indirect things, such as the idea that it has to all be 100% electric before long. No real need to push for that, and it just makes getting say, 80% (which would be enough) harder. But if I had to buy a brand new car tomorrow and somehow money wasn't a factor I'd probably get an electric.

Ten hours at home isn't really a problem overnight.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Riedquat

[winkie]

Only twice have I ever seen a car charging on the double charging point......the only two for miles, not very popular.

[winkie]

5 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Electric cars are one of those rare things, changes that don't piss me off. I'm in no hurry to get one but I do regard them as an overall net positive. Whilst I roll my eyes at a lot of the "advantages" pushed by their most vocal supporters (since I am entirely happy driving an ICE car, so any improvement on the practical side is trivial at best) there are wider advantages. What annoys me about them are the indirect things, such as the idea that it has to all be 100% electric before long. No real need to push for that, and it just makes getting say, 80% (which would be enough) harder. But if I had to buy a brand new car tomorrow and somehow money wasn't a factor I'd probably get an electric.

Ten hours at home isn't really a problem overnight.

Hybrid has to be preferable.......better than all eggs in one electric basket......nice to have freedom to choose.

[Riedquat]

5 minutes ago, winkie said:

Only twice have I ever seen a car charging on the double charging point......the only two for miles, not very popular.

If there aren't many around people will plan on the assumption they won't be able to find one when they need it (even if one's there it might be in use by someone else). The more that appear the more use they'll get. One's appeared in my local small town car park, put in when they completely resurfaced it.

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, winkie said:

Hybrid has to be preferable.......better than all eggs in one electric basket......nice to have freedom to choose.

I'm not convinced by hybrids, they seem to combine the downsides of both, either lugging around an unused battery and electric motor or lugging around an unused petrol engine and fuel tank. Ideal would be to be able to swap engines and battery for fuel tank when needed, but that's not exactly practical

[winkie]

1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

If there aren't many around people will plan on the assumption they won't be able to find one when they need it (even if one's there it might be in use by someone else). The more that appear the more use they'll get. One's appeared in my local small town car park, put in when they completely resurfaced it.

One good way to encourage shopping.......leave it on charge?.......free parking.

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'm not convinced by hybrids, they seem to combine the downsides of both, either lugging around an unused battery and electric motor or lugging around an unused petrol engine and fuel tank. Ideal would be to be able to swap engines and battery for fuel tank when needed, but that's not exactly practical

Don't know enough about it but the point is we should have an alternative, choices.

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, winkie said:

One good way to encourage shopping.......leave it on charge?.......free parking.

Well they keep going on about town centres dying, and parking charges have played their part in that. Cheap recharging would be the polar opposite, so could be interesting to see how that plays out.

[winkie]

Just now, Riedquat said:

Well they keep going on about town centres dying, and parking charges have played their part in that. Cheap recharging would be the polar opposite, so could be interesting to see how that plays out.

Like many things these days, they first give it for free, tie you in, then up the ante.

[Riedquat]

Just now, winkie said:

Like many things these days, they first give it for free, tie you in, then up the ante.

Hey, it's normally you being positive and me grumbling, what's changed? Maybe there's something in that Covid vaccine after all...

[markyh]

1 hour ago, satsuma said:

These cars are an expensive accessory for the vain and are worse than any ICE car.  Once you add it all up they are not the solution they appear to be.  

 

EV's are superior in every way except ultra long range, which a tiny minority need, and can adjust for. Dont worry you can still buy your precious ICE new in 2029 and make it last, or 2034 if you can stomach a PHEV and drag around a battery. 

But you will lose 95% of the cars value in 2-3 years as you are the idiotic minority, you will find if you live in a small town or village you suddenly have a 25 mile drive to fill up, and when you get there, an EV is parked in front of the pump , as quote "Nobody ever uses these things"

The whole idea is BEV majority from 2030 and BEV only from 2035 means that buy 2050 due to natural scrappage, accidents, uneconomical repair, only 1-2% of cars left on the road in 2050 will be ICE.  

Check Autotrader how many older than 2006 cars are left for sale, not that many. 500k cars for sale on autotrader, only 17k of those are older than 2006 or before.

[satsuma]

5 minutes ago, markyh said:

EV's are superior in every way except ultra long range, which a tiny minority need, and can adjust for. Dont worry you can still buy your precious ICE new in 2029 and make it last, or 2034 if you can stomach a PHEV and drag around a battery. 

But you will lose 95% of the cars value in 2-3 years as you are the idiotic minority, you will find if you live in a small town or village you suddenly have a 25 mile drive to fill up, and when you get there, an EV is parked in front of the pump , as quote "Nobody ever uses these things"

The whole idea is BEV majority from 2030 and BEV only from 2035 means that buy 2050 due to natural scrappage, accidents, uneconomical repair, only 1-2% of cars left on the road in 2050 will be ICE.  

Check Autotrader how many older than 2006 cars are left for sale, not that many. 500k cars for sale on autotrader, only 17k of those are older than 2006 or before.

Ah, its all a fad, Id say the EVs will all be gone soon.  Bit like betamax tapes. 

[markyh]

27 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'm not convinced by hybrids, they seem to combine the downsides of both, either lugging around an unused battery and electric motor or lugging around an unused petrol engine and fuel tank. Ideal would be to be able to swap engines and battery for fuel tank when needed, but that's not exactly practical

True, the EREV concept like our Chevy Volt was the best way forward. The range went from 30-40 miles in Gen 1, to 45-60 miles in gen 2, with unlimited Petrol mile but on pure EV drivetrain above that. 

Had they taken that to 100 miles EV range + petrol generator,  95% of all petrol miles would have disappeared from the vast majority of peoples lives.  

[markyh]

1 minute ago, satsuma said:

Ah, its all a fad, Id say the EVs will all be gone soon.  Bit like betamax tapes. 

Lol, replaced by what? Your HFCEV make EV purchase costs and ICE fuel combined look ultra cheap. Happy to pay £2.5 a lite for Hydrogen are you, with a 15-20 min fill time.

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, satsuma said:

Ah, its all a fad, Id say the EVs will all be gone soon.  Bit like betamax tapes. 

Well there's always a chance that hydrogen will end up being the mainstream method (keeps seeming to oscillate between the next big thing and a dead end).

[satsuma]

1 minute ago, markyh said:

Lol, replaced by what? Your HFCEV make EV purchase costs and ICE fuel combined look ultra cheap. Happy to pay £2.5 a lite for Hydrogen are you, with a 15-20 min fill time.

Flux capacitor 

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, winkie said:

One good way to encourage shopping.......leave it on charge?.......free parking.

Not bothered about charging at shops etc. If you have access to even a standard plug overnight charging at home is practically free and provides more than enough range for most people.  

Croydon and other LAs give 90% discount for EV parking that's a pretty good way of encouraging people back into town.

[winkie]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Not bothered about charging at shops etc. If you have access to even a standard plug overnight charging at home is practically free and provides more than enough range for most people.  

Croydon and other LAs give 90% discount for EV parking that's a pretty good way of encouraging people back into town.

You live in a house with a front door onto a private drive?......do you have an interest in everyone buying into driving an EV?......thousands giving up on driving to use public transport or renting the road pay-as-you-go......or self drive EV renting........soon only the precious few will own anything of their choosing, forced to buy something, the rest born to rent.

[longgone]

On 06/04/2021 at 16:39, markyh said:

Or get an modern efficient house. Out house was built in 2009, Modern detached Brick and block high quality, amazing insulation.  Pretty much gas heating goes "off" from end of April until end of October, the house easily maintains a passive 20 degrees. November to April thermostat is set upstairs and downstairs to 20 degrees, and heating is set to come on from 5am to midnight. 

Hot water side is always on but used less in summer due to solar panels. 

or get ya mum to pay 🤣

[smash]

Another car thread, LoL. London ULEZ expansion means that lots of VW TDI and other diesels are as good as un-sellable, fit for scrap only. Got a friend who covers around 3k miles a year in her diesel Merc and is going to take the £12:50 hit each time she uses it but I guess if there's a major repair bill it will be junked. Just hold off getting an EV as the choice is going to massively increase. Also, get out of your car in the city.