Barclaycard Gets Tough On Customers

[libitina]

Last weekend I spent cutting up the majority of my credit cards.

Majority? How many did you have?

[Mr Blek]

Majority? How many did you have?

About 10

Even though I'm a high earner, I was living off CC and about 10 - 12k in debt.

Paid it all off in once go and cut them up. Glad to say my bank account is looking extremely healthy again.

[HenryWeston]

Halifax are making a fortune out of me with my £0 balance , i rang them today and lowered the credit limit form £6000 down to £500, which i think is a bit more sensible, a couple of years ago they doubled it to £12,000 that i didnt ask for

[theChuz]

Its so disgustingly decietful i love it

Let us not forget that this is the type of thing that we have been looking fowards to?. Credit tightening without it looking like it?

[Elizabeth]

Its so disgustingly decietful i love it

Let us not forget that this is the type of thing that we have been looking fowards to?. Credit tightening without it looking like it?

This is true. I don't think banks ever expect anything to happen to the money supply that they haven't thought of themselves and marketed ceaselessly. should we be running a "Cut the Card" capaign? Since the majority of people tend to run on keeping up with the pack I would suggest "The Coolest Cut" as a slogan.

[winkie]

This is true. I don't think banks ever expect anything to happen to the money supply that they haven't thought of themselves and marketed ceaselessly. should we be running a "Cut the Card" capaign? Since the majority of people tend to run on keeping up with the pack I would suggest "The Coolest Cut" as a slogan.

Great Slogan.

Kill the credit, cut the card, the coolest cut you'll ever make.

[Serpico]

Hit em with one of these and see how quick they refund the late payment or over limit charge. Yes Sir, No Sir, Three bags full Sir.

NOTICE OF INTENTION

In the Toytown District Registry

COUNTY COURT

etc etc

These charges are unenforcable in law, I dont think any CC company would dare contest a claim or let it get before A District Judge. Forget their T & Cs

They are making millions in unearned profits out of these charges, and the mugs are standing for it, they gotta be nuts.

£25 - £35 for a computer generated activity that costs them nothing to generate F*** em No Way!

Edited February 5, 2006 by Serpico

[flash harry]

The banks try to claw back money from those with DD set up by including a DD penanty as well. I did'nt have eniugh money in my halifax (by 1 day) and I was charged £90. Late payment fee, penalty fee and a fee for a direct debit fee!!

Rip off merchants!!!!!

FH

[Elizabeth]

The banks try to claw back money from those with DD set up by including a DD penanty as well. I did'nt have eniugh money in my halifax (by 1 day) and I was charged £90. Late payment fee, penalty fee and a fee for a direct debit fee!!

Rip off merchants!!!!!

FH

The thing that infuriates me is that they make all sorts of discretionary decisions about your spending (eg. whether to pay the DD if the account is past the limit) and then charge you for their decision. I have always managed to talk my way out of it, but it remains infuriating.

Why does someone else's bounced cheque cost me 25 quid?

[Timster]

My favourite revenge is taking advantage of the 0% balance transfer (0% fee) cards, paying it off on time and then ringing them up to tell them to terminate the account. Without fail, they will of course ask why you want to do that and I therefore get pleasure in telling them exactly why. I don't think they have a system in place to put "card tart" in your credit file, so knowing I cost them several hundred pounds in lost interest and admin costs is a small victory for the little man. The best thing about it is you can apply as a new customer once enough time has past and do the same thing.

[Nomadd]

I think Barclaycard are great. They spotted somebody making an unauthorised transaction on my card the morning it happenned, telephoned me and stopped all my interest payments until it was sorted so that I did not end up out of pocket in any way. I always pay my card off by direct debit anyway, so for the extra security and peace of mind they give me, I am more than happy with them bringing forward the repayment date. You get nearly 2 months anyway.

Yep, couldn't agree more. Barclaycard spotted my card had been used fraudulantly (to the tune of 700 quid) and stopped it immediately the same day. They also stated they would get me a full refund with two weeks of me filling in a form which arrived the next day. They did just that. Can't fault the service at all.

As regards a few days less to pay - who cares? I pay my bill off every month in full. As I use Internet Banking to do this, it's paid of the day the bill arrives. Simple (and saves the cost of a cheque and stamp :-)).

Nomadd

[New Darker Law]

Yep, couldn't agree more. Barclaycard spotted my card had been used fraudulantly (to the tune of 700 quid) and stopped it immediately the same day. They also stated they would get me a full refund with two weeks of me filling in a form which arrived the next day. They did just that. Can't fault the service at all.

As regards a few days less to pay - who cares? I pay my bill off every month in full. As I use Internet Banking to do this, it's paid of the day the bill arrives. Simple (and saves the cost of a cheque and stamp :-)).

Nomadd

From my previous post I don't have that great a problem with Barclaycard either, but the timing of this move was particularly cynical.

They took 8 days off my normal date which brought it forward to "pay at the bank by 5th Jan". As I live in Scotland and the 1st and 2nd are usually bank holidays and one day falling on the weekend this year, I only had the 4th and 5th to pay at a bank, which is my usual method.

At that time of year, I have other priorities and, I assumed that my payment date would have been the 18th like it should have been. Also, why did they only do it with one of my cards? It's just not on!

NDL

[Rapid Descent]

I have no problem with Barclaycard. I put all of my Xmas costs on it this year in December, then transferred it all on to my egg card on a 0% anniversary offer. Getting an egg card in January is one of the best credit decisions I made, they give you anniversary 0% transfers for the following three years

How did barclaycard respond to this? They immediately send me a form offering a transfer back to their card at 0% interest! Trouble is I've got no other debts to stick on it (and no, that isn't an offer...). Still, their offer hasn't expired yet, maybe I can run some up, straight into a nearby savings account

Seems 0% interest rates are alive and well for those willing to keep track of it...

PS. I get my HSBC card cleared fully every month by DD.

[beerhunter]

I find this truly astounding:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/4681228.stm

I had the same problems of moving pay by dates around with MBNA. About 6 months ago, I got charged £25 for paying on the day payment was due! Phone them up, complained and they agreed to reduced the charge to £12.50... I wasn't happy, so I said "Ok, I don't want this to happen again so I want a fixed date at which payment is due".. expecting "We can't do that"... but they said "Yes sir, we can do that!"

So phone them up and fix a date to pay them by!

Now rathering than having to pay them before anything time between 28th-3rd each month, I know each month I have to pay them by the 2nd

I think on the quiet credit card companies are getting a little worried. They are starting to look at how they can offset increasing bad debts.

I think they are, not just bad debts but the lack of retail spending and the new chip and pin regs on the 14th Feb.

In the past the only time you needed a pin for a credit card was if you withdrew cash with it... and most solvent people know your better off if you don't, so didn't remember/know the pin.

So whose going to use chip and pin on a credit card now? Those people that know their pins, which are those people that need to use them.. which are mainly (not all) people with a debt.

Surely lots of "good" (as in paid back each month) cards will get binned from retail use on the 14th. Making credit card comapnies more susceptible to bad debt.

[MarkG]

Yeah, I'm thinking of getting rid of a couple of cards simply because I have too many god-damn PINs and passwords to remember already and don't need any more. The other option is to set them all to the same number, which is hardly a security benefit.

[New Darker Law]

Yep beerhunter, you may be right.

I've had chip and pin for nearly three years and do you know how many times I've used the pin? Yup, not once!

I can't remember 'em long enough to change it to something I would remember.

Can anybody provide any links to the new regs? I mean, is there no option at all for the retailer to accept a signature? I'm just thinking my local railway station still doesn't have a chip and pin facility for when I buy my railcard.

NDL

[ToilAndTrouble]

Yep beerhunter, you may be right.

I've had chip and pin for nearly three years and do you know how many times I've used the pin? Yup, not once!

I can't remember 'em long enough to change it to something I would remember.

Can anybody provide any links to the new regs? I mean, is there no option at all for the retailer to accept a signature? I'm just thinking my local railway station still doesn't have a chip and pin facility for when I buy my railcard.

NDL

I think the fraud liability for non-PIN transactions shifts from the issuer to the merchant or merchant acquirer. Thus it will be in the interests of the merchants not to accept signatures. Also, the issuer or acquirer policy may cause signature transactions to be declined.

There's some info here.

T&T

[beerhunter]

Yep beerhunter, you may be right.

I've had chip and pin for nearly three years and do you know how many times I've used the pin? Yup, not once!

I can't remember 'em long enough to change it to something I would remember.

I have just one card I use for chip and pin... and several cards I don't use for chip and pin ever (some because I don't know them and some because I refuse to risk someone seeing a pin for an account with large amounts of cash in)

Can anybody provide any links to the new regs? I mean, is there no option at all for the retailer to accept a signature? I'm just thinking my local railway station still doesn't have a chip and pin facility for when I buy my railcard.

There's a website http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/ .. as far as I recall if the retailer accepts chip and pin and;

- you have a chip and pin card you have to pay wth a pin.

- you have a old sig card (or a sig card for other reasons), the retailer may accept it (but they are liable for any losses)

If the retailer don't provide chip and pin, then you'll have to sign for it, and the retailer is liable for any losses.

Basically it passes liability onto both the retailer and/or customer.. and away from the card company.

[New Darker Law]

Thanks for the link guys.

OT but I can't help but think this is dangerous. If anyone does get hold of a pin they can run amok with a card and are unlikely to be challenged. The old false credibility arguement.

Are the card company gonna come along and say, well you must have written it down somewhere, you are liable?

NDL

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Another CC trick which I am convinced is a scam is suddenly not sending you your bill for a month or two. I think they know many (most) people sort out their credit card when they see the bill, so not sending it could cause them to be late that month and have to pay the CC company more.

[MarkG]

That's what I don't understand. You type this number into machines on a regular basis, so it won't be hard for bad guys to get the PINs for numerous cards just by installing hacked readers.

Then how secure is it? I guess their argument would be that it's no less secure than a card and signature, but I still find it somewhat scary.

[CrashConnoisseur]

Chip and PIN security.

In general, a PIN (or password) which is only retained inside our head is far more secure than a biometric such as a signature where copies are relatively easy to obtain. The introduction of Chip and PIN has already resulted in a dramatic drop in fraud. However, it's essential that the PIN is kept secret.

In my opinion, the present design of keypad is far from ideal. It would be better to have the keypad inside an enclosed box open at the front and with a window in the top such that the keypad can only be seen by looking vertically down (this assembly may need to be detachable to facilitate use by wheelchair users).

[MarkG]

Still doesn't help if they hack the machines to record the PINs. I'd guess there's also a card-specific key in the chip which they'd need to access, but that's not impossible: various attacks have been made on chipped cards in the past.

[beerhunter]

Thanks for the link guys.

OT but I can't help but think this is dangerous. If anyone does get hold of a pin they can run amok with a card and are unlikely to be challenged. The old false credibility arguement.

Are the card company gonna come along and say, well you must have written it down somewhere, you are liable?

Yes, if you don't inform them of a lost card. But if its been copied how do you know until you get your bill.

That's what I don't understand. You type this number into machines on a regular basis, so it won't be hard for bad guys to get the PINs for numerous cards just by installing hacked readers.

Then how secure is it? I guess their argument would be that it's no less secure than a card and signature, but I still find it somewhat scary.

So do I find it scary.

Entering a pin into a Bank ATM is secure once entered (ie assuming no one is looking over your shoulder etc). Entering a pin into a 3rd party reader is not as secure, and if some people does find/work out your pin, how do you prove it wasn't you? Looking at a sig its normally obvious, checking 4 digits are entered it isn't.

What worries me even more is the transfer of liability.

[ToilAndTrouble]

Still doesn't help if they hack the machines to record the PINs. I'd guess there's also a card-specific key in the chip which they'd need to access, but that's not impossible: various attacks have been made on chipped cards in the past.

It's prohibitively expensive. If it was easy then you would make good money cloning Belgium's Proton stored value cards... effectively cloning real money.

The chip technology has come a long way in the past couple of decades. They now generally contain effective defences against differential attacks involving measurement of timing, power consumption and EM to get the key off of the card. Often they also contain encrypted address and data lines, helping prevent physical attacks such as using an ion drill to get to a contact and extraction of the non-volatile memory.

Also, each card has a unique private key. Extracting the key from one card allows you to clone that card only. Unlike, for example the ill-fated cards used in the old OnDigital boxes. Interestingly, the private key is often generated on the card during personalisatin, and is unknown to anybody, including the card issuer.

PIN is more secure than signature simply for the fact that signatures are rarely checked. I do agree that some of the shrouds on the PIN-pads seem a bid inadequate. I notice a lot of them have been retro-fitted to the devices. Also, one of the real advantages of chip and pin is that there should be no need for the merchant to handle your card. I groan whenever somebody at the check-out insists on taking my card only to put it into the machine in front of me.

Note also that the devices are designed to be tamper proof. The keypad is itself a secure device that attempts to prevent the PIN being revealed. Most of the attempts I have heard of involve shoulder-surfing or well-placed cameras.

T&T